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Post by thracian08 on Nov 24, 2010 12:45:31 GMT -5
I don't thinks Turks & Hungarians are the same exact ppl, however, I think they are linked together. They both originate from the same area.
Hungarian language isn't an indo european language. That is the biggest difference btwn all other European ppl and Hungarians excluding Finns.
I guesss historically it hasn't been proven either way - if Huns origins were the Xiongxu (which are Turks).
They have theories going either way.
I have met Hungarians in the USa, and they also acknowledge they are related to Turks, and aren't European - I don't mean by ethnicity, I mean origin.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Nov 26, 2010 4:56:37 GMT -5
Oszkar, there is no such thing as "Hungarians being unique", so cut the crap. Hungarians are obviously related to some other people. If u know your bible well, then it's states how all human races in this world decended from Adam and Eve. So really Hungarians are not unique since they decended from Adam and Eve as much as anybody else. It's only the fools that believe in "Hungarians are unique fairy tale bullchit" U know why some idiot come up with this bullchit of Hungarians are unique? It's common sense, they want to isolate Hungarians from her eastern relatives such as the Turks and Mongols. Hungarians are Turks, Hungarians are....yes mixed with Slavs, Germans, Iranians, blah,blah and they are still mixing with Africans, Gypsies and Arabs the latest but overally Hungarians are Turks fullstop. So stop fabricating any more pseudo-science that Hungarians are not Turks. Hungarians are TURKS, TUUUURKS!!! And my reply to Hungarian's europeaness, well Hungarians are in a position of being european as much as the Gypsies, Gagauz Turks, Crimean Tatars and Turkish are in europe, no more than that. Even Bulgarians are not in the position of being European, since they were also Turks and originated from the Volga-Bulgaria, however they been Slavised by the stupid Slaves!!!.
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 29, 2010 17:20:29 GMT -5
Man, wwb is unbearable.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Nov 29, 2010 22:32:48 GMT -5
Why unbearable? Because im getting pissed at some stupid people wanna-be Hungarian is fabricating the Hungarian origin?
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 30, 2010 13:53:24 GMT -5
Your not Hungarian, hungarians are Catholics and pretty strongly so as well. Also, your an Arab, from the West Bank. Your a temporary in Hungary...
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 30, 2010 17:51:12 GMT -5
Tell me what Turk or Turkic people or any non Hungarian people are there ,that can speak Hungarian or understand Hungarian by virtue of so called relatedness or language relationship ? There is none, so we see the Hungarian language is completly unique. You wont find any so called related peoples that could understand even 1 short sentence in Hungarian, so please stop your bullchit. Hungarians have a unique language and a unique ethnogenesis that is different to Turkics and Mongols and other people you wish to put in the same category as Hungarians. Turks from Turkey went to Arabia became Islamised, Arabised, Persianised then went to Anatolia and became Anatolianised etc etc etc on top of the original Turkicness that they carried with them and that later Turkics continued to bring into Anatolia. So there is vast differences between the ethnogenesis's of different peoples even between the Turkic speaking peoples there is differences. In my oppinion it is foolish to deny this and to deny Hungarians of their obvious uniqueness or to deny other nations of their own respective uniqueness also.
In all seriousness what similarities do u see between modern Hungarians , Turks and Mongols ?
language ? religion ? social culture ? cuisine ?
Why then do your so called Turk Hungarians then dont speak Turkish/Turkic. I dont believe they are Turks, I accept that they have some historical- cultural connection with Turkics to a certain point, but there is a differnce.
Bullchit go and look at the Hungarian DNA.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 1, 2010 1:39:16 GMT -5
Excuse me Toskali, who are you to tell me im not Hungarian? And there is no such thing as "Hungarians are catholic" anymore. There are Catholic Hungarians, Protestant Hungarians, Orthodox Hungarians like Oszkar, Atheist Hungarians who mostly ex-commies and Sunni Hungarians like me and Yeni, AND there is also Hungarians with other religions as well. Oszkar....... Yeah sure, Hungarian language are unique?! If Hungarian language are unique then where the hell it come from? From the Moon??? ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) Hungarian is not different to any other Turkic language. Just because the language itself is corrupted over centuries, it's doesnt mean Hungarian is not Turkic. yeah yeah, there are several Turks that understands 1 sentence of Hungarian. How about this one? HungarianZsebembe csok kicsi Alma van Anatolian TurkishCebimde cok kucuk elma var So use your intellect rather than bitching about my claim. Since you said the above ^^^^^ quote. Oh i see your point now, so Hungarians were decended from Monkeys or Apes yeah? Let me tell you something even Darwinism is false since Darwinism has no scientific basis ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Hungarians decended from Adam and Eve so Hungarians are not unique. In my oppinion, it's foolish of someone that believes that Hungarians or whatever so called unique people come to this world by chance without to have any relation with other people and follows their fairytales that WE ARE UNIQUE bullcrap theory!!! Hungarian is hardly a ethnic or nationality rather it was a Tribal name of a Turkic group same with Khazak, Kirgiz, Uzbek, Uygur, Turkmen, etc,etc. Hungarian/Magyar was not a nationality. Im not gonna waste my time arguing with ya since you still dont get it, and because of your Pan-Europeanism mentality at it best. I have gone through with you for years and years and you still dont get it. Hey Oszkar go to Bugacs, BUGACS a place in Hungary where they host Kurultay, just go there. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Oh yes we do, you may think it's extinct but it's isnt, we spoke it over centuries. And if i speak it to ya, u hardly going to understand it since our language is not based on Urban but Rural teaching. Urban Hungarian is already corrupted as we can see with the latest introduction of English borrowings in the Hungarian language. And with the help of Nationalist Hungarians, we are doing the job of reviving Hungarian to the purest form. Oh yes and have a look at the human DNA with Apes or Monkey's DNA, it's similar but not exact. So quick quick write an article that we are related to Monkeys and Apes that are licking their arses on the tree. Oh yes Hungarian DNA is the way to justify their origin, not the written chronicles written by chronicallers, expecially the Arab chronicallers because he's an Arab. Bullchit!!! Give me a break. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) We cant even rely on August Schleicher's Finno-Ugric theory since his idea was based upon Darwinsim.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 1, 2010 7:37:26 GMT -5
Here check it out, what does it say on the map? Land of the Turks (Magyars)And who was their neighbour? Avars, and who was the Avars? another Turkic people who decended from Huns. And what else, they were the relatives of the Magyars. ![](http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8625/europe814.jpg) How about this one Oszkar, have you read it? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MuagerisMugel[1] (or Muageris) was the successor of Grod (or Grodas), a Hunnic ruler, from the neighborhood of the city of Bosporus [Boon Phoros: "cattle tax"] in Patria Onoguria. His reign lasted only 2 years, from AD 528 to 530.
Not so long ago, historical research concluded the term magyar[2] derived from the name of (prince) Muageris, by arguing that "Muageris" had to be a personal name taken from the descriptive designation of a people. It presented the hypothesis that the Huns in the Crimea were, really, the Onogurs, and the names of the two princes mentioned by Malalas (a chronicle - Teophanes had, in his work also called Chronographia, copied data from the Malalas chronicle, and since he relied upon earlier manuscripts of the work, although not the original of the work, he preserved the Malalas report in more detail) as living in the region of Maeotian Lake (Sea of Azov) and of the Kuban stream during the earlier half of the sixth century, actually referred to people under the rule of the Magyar (Mugel) tribe.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This theory explains much similar like on the map. Anyway if you are not proud of your Turkic origin, then dont be a Hungarian, be an Armenian just like your wife, it's that simple. No offense. I hope we stop it here, im getting very insulted when someone is playing with my Hungarian origin, oh Hungarian is unique, Hungarian is not related to anyone, Hungarian are not Turks, Hungarians are European, blah,blah blah. Oszkar accept this fact, Europe doesnt give a chit about us, if they give a chit about us, they wouldnt dictate the treaty of Trianon upon us, they would integrate us but no they dont, they are just USING us. And you know what's so sad? Sad thing is that Hungarians were known as defenders of Christendom and Hungarians had to kill their Turk relatives coming into the Balkans in the name of Europe and Christianity and Europe thanked us by giving Trianon, that the thanks and love we received from them. It was a big mistake to kill our Ottoman Turk relatives, we should of let them march peacefully through our territory and let them kicked those scum European arses. And none but none of those Hungarian's lives would have been lost if they wasnt fighting the Ottomans.
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Post by toskaliku on Dec 1, 2010 12:30:01 GMT -5
Sorry then, not just Catholic, any type of Christian or an secularist. But Islam will always be foreign to Europe
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 2, 2010 0:57:27 GMT -5
Islam had always been foreign through out many continents not just Europe. Islam was even foreign in the Middle East during the prophet Muhammed days since alot of Arabs who were Pagans, Jews and Christian used to abused him alot and consider him and Islam as alien to the world. Anyway i dont think Islam is foreign in Albania-Kosova combine since Muslims are in majority in those 2 countries. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 2, 2010 1:16:13 GMT -5
Yes like in any democracy, but Toskali's point is correct Hungary is a predominantly Christian country in modern times and historically.
There is no or very few serious linguists that consider Hungarian a Turkic language. The words of old Turkic origin in Hungarian are borrowings and came into the language the same as later Slav words and German words have come into the language.
Unless the person was already aware of this example, I doubt by ear the Hungarian or the Turk would understand each others sentence as the sound of the language is different and is the pronounciation.
As I said before those Hungarian words of old Turkic origin are borrowings I could easily give many examples of Hungarian words that correspond to Slavic and German words. This type of thing is not enough to classify a language, nice try anyway.
see my above message and use yours.
yes all human beings have similarities as there is similaries of the human condition. Besides from that, its still possible to discuss and recognise uniqueness within cultures and nationalities and histories of nations.
Look Hungarians have there own history and their own ethnogenesis , why is that so hard for you to understand and accept.
Hungarians call themselves Magyar, others named them Hungarians. Yes Hungarian is a nationality and ethnicity.
I asked you about what do you think are the cultural similarities between Modern Turks, Mongols and Hungarians instead of answering the question you avoid it by claiming not wanting to waste time.
Face the facts Hungarians do not speak Turkish or Turkic unless its as a second language.
Some of those old chroniclers like Ibn Rusta saw the Hungarians allied and living beside Khazars and other Turanians and classified them as Turks. The Byzantines were probably more correct in labelling them as Scythians as this was a more broadly used term to describe nomadic Turanian type peoples.
I am not denying the historical Turkic or Turanian connections and elements of the early Hungarians but I am saying this is something different to classifying modern Magyars and historical Magyars as Turks/Turkics.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 2, 2010 1:45:33 GMT -5
when and by whom was that map made. We have spoken about some of the Chroniclers calling the Hungarians Turks and considering Hungarians at that time were allied with strong Turkic peoples such as Khazars this is not so suprising. The term Turk in that context can describe tribal alliances where Turks were probably the dominant party but this does not mean all the allies or subject peoples were Turk by ethnicity,origin, and language ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) yes and many other theories. I have read this idea and I have also read books on Hungarian history where this theory has been discussed and critiqued. I am not convinced, and its just one of many too many theories about the name Magyar/Megyer. I am not Turkish/Turkic or Armenian and neither are you, unless of course you choose to make yourself a citizen of Turkey and make for yourself a Turkic/Turkish identity. If you think that being born into a Hungarian family (which are usually non Muslim) , somehow makes a person Turkish or Turkic in culture and nationality- identity, well good for you but I think thats a little bit delusional as there is very little cultural similarity between modern Hungarians and Turks /Turkics. And yes I am proud of my Hungarian background not you or anyone can tell me not to be. sorry but this is a over cynical and immature argument style in my oppinion. but its not an uncommon one from certain type of nationalist points of view, and its not unique to Hungarians you can find similiar types of whingings from other east euro and balkan countries. In Eastern and southern Europe its not an uncommon thing that peoples have such feelings about there neighbours and other Europeans. European Unity is a pipe dream. Hungarians in certain ways are more like the neighbour people's of that region of Europe than you would like to think. another fairytale.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 2, 2010 5:26:15 GMT -5
Hungary a christian country in modern times? dream on, Hungary today is not even govern by the church, what the hell you on about? Hungary today is a secular-state not Christian-state. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) looool ;D Borrowing my arse, those Hungarians spoke Turkic exactly how the Huns and Avars spoke, even the Szekelys spoke Turkic. German, Slavic, heavy borrowing of Latin and/or Romance, Hebrew, Yiddish, Romany (gypsy language), Esperanto, Finno-Ugric, English is all what destroyed the Hungarian langauge due to the progress done by Europeanisation over centuries. The modern Hungarian is a mess that one can see it is. The position of the modern Hungarian language is very much similar in method done by idiot European wanna-be linguist with Esperanto. Unless the person was already aware of this example, I doubt by ear the Hungarian or the Turk would understand each others sentence as the sound of the language is different and is the pronounciation. What you doubt and what the Hungarian language really are, is a 2 different thing. This 1 sentence comparision with Turkish, does really classify as Turkic. And if this is not enough for you to see it then im gonna get another sentence done for you, but i can tell you 1 thing im not going to be surprised at all and im not going expect you to accept it since your mentality is not based on Research but on philosophy. It's your powerful philosophy that makes you deny thing even if it's based on truths and because of your Pro-Armenian views, this is another reason for your hostility towards Turkic. unique, unique, not even Chinese is unique. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) Yes Hungarians have their own Turkic history, not their bloodly faked Slavic, German, Gypsy blah,blah blah history. Now yes, before no. Hungarian/Magyar was a tribal name of Turks, since Magyar was a personal name of a leader. People who mixed up with Turks, take their language, their culture and lived with them is a Turk. Ibn Rusta claims is more believing then your pseudo-science, if Ibn Rusta had claim that Magyars are Turks, it is obvious that he had met them and seen them as Turks. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) Link me about this Byzantine claims that Magyars were Scythians, because i have also seen articles that Byzantines also label Magyars as Turks. Your a professional philosopher, all you need now is a philosopher's stone. ;D If they werent Turks, why the hell they associated with them for then? And all people who associated with Turks, allied with Turks, who's leader was a Turk, dont you think that these people became Turkised and is a Turk? yeah yeah fairytale, your philosophy is based on fairytales.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 2, 2010 8:32:35 GMT -5
my meaning is clear, Hungary was a Christian Kingdom from 1000AD and ever since Hungary is predominantly still a Christian country. As I said historically and in modern times. nobody knows exactly how the Huns spoke. Szekely may have spoke Turkic if they were originally from the Kabar, or Bulgar tribes but if they were Hunnic we dont know for sure how was the language. In any case we know Szekely do not speak Turkic now (if they ever did )and this has nothing to do with Slavs or Germans or anyother of your disliked Indo European groups but it has more to do with Magyars as that is the language Szekely speak ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I have already seen all the very few sentences containing Hungarian words of Turkic origin. People could do same here with other Hungarian words of other origins too it doesnt mean anything about the essence of the Hungarian language, as I have already said linguists will tell you those words you are talking about are borrowings thought to be of Khazar- Bulgar Turkic and we know Hungarians were living closely and in alliances with both those peoples. There is only 300 odd words in Hungarian thought to be of Turkic origin. I am not hostile towards Turkic, why should i be. I dont have specifically pro Armenian views that have any relationship to what we are talking about. I dont think that what you are arguing and nor your readiness to classify Magyars as Turks is something based on strongly scientific research in fact you are quite happy to ignore a lot of information and just opt for the view you prefer. And if we are to talk about or consider biases, then your anti indo european and anti Christian/ anti Western and pro Islamic - Middle Eastern - Turkic etc tendancies are well known. Magyar is not a Turkic word , cut the bullchit. Magyars kept their own language and eventually went there own way leaving behind there former Turkic allies the Khazars and Bulgars. not all of them no. [/quote]
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 2, 2010 14:46:09 GMT -5
But Christianity has nothing to do with it. Chavush and Gagaoguz ppl who are Christians in Moldova and Russia are Turks.
Anyone can be of any religion.
linguistically it's related.
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Post by toskaliku on Dec 4, 2010 14:36:35 GMT -5
I wont tolerate the name of Albania being mentioned by an Arab rat. Dont ever pair us up with your filth. We know how to temper Islam and dont worrya bout Albania's Islam... technically, Shejtani is a Muslim... so am I....
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 5, 2010 1:11:20 GMT -5
oooo an Arab rat? why not Turkic? or is Turks are rats as well? Oooo so you are muslim too, to me it's sound like your not at all, but someone faking as muslims, yes like a stupid Munafikeen (hypocrites). So i hope you gonna start fearing Allah for name-calling your muslim brother like that, your muslim brother is hardly an Arab. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Your insult is my hasanah. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I am Hungarian, no matter what you say or what you think. And Oszkar, im not going reply to any of your fairtales, since your just an ignorant person, who is living in a dream-world thinking that your a scholar or a historian but really your just a professional fairytale-story-teller, reading bed-time stories for kids that "once upon a time Hungarians were not Turks but something unique from the Moon or Mars or Jupiter or where ever they came from and lived with the Turks but really they are not Turks, they just borrowed 300 Turkic loan words, fuked their Turkic wives or husband, gave birth to genetically Turkic children, chose the Turks as their leader, but they really not Turks and not even Turkised. Hungarians had their own history but really the Hungarian's history is their Turko-Turanian history, not their dumbchit Slavic,German,Gypsy, Armenian Hungarian-wanna-be trash."So go and tell those stories, but im telling ya that even the Turks in this forum thinks your story is a pseudo-science. You even go as far as saying that Huns are not Turkic and dont speak Turkic, dream on with your dreaming!!! You think you know more than the chronicaller? bullchit!!! Even Ibn Rusta gots more brain than you, and his knowlegde is more worth listening to than your dogmatic fairytale bedtime stories. So see ya later, i got something better to do, notibly chatting with real Hungarians and not the stupid kulfoldi Hungarians about the Hungarian history on facebook. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Anyway even i dont celebrate Christmas anymore, Merry Christmas. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 5, 2010 8:07:44 GMT -5
Then why do u call yourself Arab, at least make up your mind.
I am not the one fabricating Hungarian history as I have seen you do in the past how you did trying to tell people Hungary was historically a Muslim country etc etc.
It wouldnt matter if they had Turkic wives or if certain groups or even leaders were Turkic, what matters is that Hungarians called themselves Magyars and spoke and speak a non Turkic language. This is evidence in itself that they are more Magyarised than Turkicised and that whatever Turkification there was , it was not enough to make them speak Turkic or to maintain it if they did, ultimatly they are and were something of themselves, hence it is wrong to simply classify them as Turks, at best it may be said they were at best part Turkic at a certain time or rather they had Turkic elements. Many groups that were classified as Turks in that time were actually mixed tribes with perhaps Turkic leaders but this did not mean ethnic Turkic purity for all member tribes of the group so let us not deny other ethnic origins of the minorities. In the case of the Hungarians the Magyar element prevailed and dominated and assimilated all groups by language and identity so try learn to accept it.
[/b] So go and tell those stories, but im telling ya that even the Turks in this forum thinks your story is a pseudo-science.[/quote]
I couldnt give a chit what anyone here thinks. What I know for sure is that Hungarians were a mixed people that ultimatly speak a language that is not Turkic. For those ingorants like you that only want to follow some of the Turkic elements that were linked to the Magyars such as the Khazars,Bulgars and later Cumans but who want to ignore other elements such as the Magyars and other integral tribes of whom the majority must have spoke Magyarul and also the culture and peoples of the Carpathians that went into the nation then thats a sign of your ignorance and stupidity.
If the Magyars didnt call themselves Turks and ultimatly went in the direction of which they did then that was their fate , you cant change history no matter how much you would have prefferred for them to have become Muslims or spoken Turkic , these are all your fantasies, keep dreaming as u like I couldnt give a chit, and it wont change reality.
Huns were mixed tribes also, its quite possible they or some of them spoke Turkic but as far as I know there is no record of Hunnic speach, so for all we know they may have or at least some of them may have spoke Magyarul. Havent you heard some people refer to Huns as Scythians others call them Turkics as I said they were mixed groups.
WBB go and read your pro Arab, pro Islamic, pro anti European stuff as much as you like, but just leave Hungarians and Hungary out of it ok, we are as a whole not interested, Hungary has its own history and culture dont confuse yourself too much.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 6, 2010 4:19:45 GMT -5
Im arab? i got arab origin but i didnt say im arab. And i already made up my mind you kulfoldi, im Hungarian. I dont give a chit what those racist Serbs thinks, im Hungarian. If they dont like it they can hang themselves if they want to. Hungarians in Hungary even accept me as Hungarian as much as any other Hungarians, that they even go as far as making joke out of me, calling me Mugyar instead of Magyar. Mu= (A combination of Muslim and Magyar) and Gyar Mugyar=Hungarian or Magyar muslim. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Similar version of Bosnian muslims =Boslims. Hungary was a muslim country, most of todays Hungary including Budapest was under the Ottomans, those hungarian territories were Sancaks of the Ottomans and while Szapolyai's Eastern Hungary (Transylvania) was under under Ottoman vassals, so overally Hungary was a muslim country because it was ruled by the Muslims. It's you that is fabricating Hungarian history, and i have even remember that you admitted during the past that Hungarians were genetically Turks, but after that your oppinion changed. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Magyarised is another form of Turkised, no matter how you trying to deny it. I even heard that 10 Magyar tribes were Turkic, at least that what someone from the Jobbik told me. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Magyar origin have only Turkic element and there is no other element, there is no German, no Slavic, no Gypsy, no Armenian either but Turkic. All those other ethnos i mentioned have mixed with Magyars and they accepted the Magyar element, that is Turkic element. You know that Hungary was historically was called Turkia/Tourkia yeah? ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Im not talking about Ottomans, dont ever bring this Ottoman bs, im talking about right before Ottomans. Huns were overally Turkic and about Scythians, there are theories about it that even Scythians were Turks instead of Iranians. And there was another theories that even Alans were Turkic, who knows. But your claims that Huns were not overally Turkic is bs, you your common logic and answer my question: If Huns were not overally Turkic then what were the Avars? Avars are not Turkic too? Bulgars are not Turkic too? What pro-Arab? you buta, you mean pro-saudis wahhabis-salafi crap? I dont follow this idea but pro-Islamic yes but you follow pro-Christian orthodox ideas so what the bloody different? You ever seen me critisizing your orthodox idea? Never!!! I have even posted you about Hungarian orthodoxy website. But i have seen you many times insulting Islamic and anything that is Islamic as i am into belief that you may be Islamophobic, not just in Hungary forum but Turkish and Albanian ones as well. I wont tollerate any garbage here and in Hungary caused by people who are just Magyarised and faking Hungarian trying to destroy Hungarian history and Hungarian identity and anything Hungarian and convert them into "European". If the Jobbiks sees your post, they straight away tell you off. And be careful with this Jobbik-thing, try not to say that you know some from there cause i know people from Jobbik more than you since im most actively with them. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) This is something you should know. Jobbik wants the rethinking of the Finno-Ugric narrativeJobbik is calling for the rethinking of the Finno-Ugric linguistic theory based on fraudulent reasonings and politically motivated arguments. In a letter to the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Jobbik challenges members of the institution to reexamine traditionally held views on the origin of Hungarians that had been part of the national consciousness before the Finno-Ugric theory was introduced into national awareness by the Habsburgs. [/i] The Habsburgs, by all means, wanted to eradicate the commonly held view of national origin. In order to do that they commissioned foreign linguists to construct a fake narrative that was alien to the native notion of history; the goal was to break national resistance by depriving the nation of its traditional views of history that posed an obstacles to Habsburg colonization. The Finno-Ugric language theory and the fraudulent arguments about the origin of Hungarians concocted by German linguists a century ago. Before, Hungarians had an altogether different view about their own origin. They held that they were the descendants of Hun-Scythian ancestors. The story of Hun-Scythian origin has survived in oral and written forms and are supported by Greek, Arabic, Iranian and Chinese historical documents. Genetic research that has been conducted, recently, in the regions once belonged to the Soviet empire, shows that Hungarians have no genetic relationship with the Finno-Ugric people. These new findings have already reflected in the Finnish school textbooks. Finns are already distancing themselves from the Finno-Ugric fairy tale. In order to survive globalization people have to know their true history, otherwise loose their identities as the global elite has been conducting a clandestine war on national cultures. The aim is to uproot human beings from their social environments that provide protective surroundings for them. The displaced masses can be manipulated and used as mindless consumers--an ultimate goal of those who rule the world. The global landscape is already full of socially engineered human beings (“experts without spirit, sensualist without heart” --Goethe); these are the people that make up the bulk of consumer societies. They function as tools rather than spiritual beings in the hands of the global elite. What Jobbik wants is a healthy debate about all aspects of Hungarian history. It is not the intention of Jobbik to interfere with scientific research or by any means restrict scientific freedom, but rather, inspire scientists to examine the contradictions inherent in the Finno-Ugric narrative. In the spirit of this outlook, Jobbik supports the establishment of new university departments and other civic workshops devoted to the research of the history and the origin of Hungarians. It calls for the establishment of a new institution dedicated solely to the research of the ancient history of Hungarians. Jobbik also calls for the revision of textbooks of the elementary and high schools, in order to let children and young people getting acquainted with the true history of their ancestors, as early as possible. www.jobbik.com/jobbik-announcements/3100.html
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 8, 2010 0:11:08 GMT -5
Ruled by duress doesn't mean much. Hungarians were predominantly non Muslim. . Not accurate. I have acknowledged Turkic elements amongst the Hungarian tribes. But I do not think that Hungarians at large were Turkic. it should also be noted that though modern-day Hungarians have a predominantly European genetic makeup, Guglielimino and Beres (1996) states that about 13% of the population have retained the other Uralic language speakers' genes, while Tomary, et al. (2007) sees no genetic continuity in the current population, but does see a genetic connection in ancient DNA between the small proportion of the population comprising the ruling class that is linked to Uralic populations ca. 1000 AD (around the time of the formation of the first Hungarian state).[26][27]
The new Hungarian genetic researches established that Hungarians had mostly European origin in the age of St. Stephen's Hungary.[29] According to the conclusion of these new researches, Hungarians of 10-11th centuries had mostly European genetic origin and there are no relevant genetic difference between Hungarian 'leader' population and the 'common' people. Those have same percent European (about 85-90 %, main European Haplogroups occur there) and Asian haplogroups ratios (however the composition of markers are different: B and M Asian haplogroups have dissimilar ratios, 'leader' population has bigger Europid U, X and N1a haplogroup ratios, 'common' population has bigger Europid preV, I, H and T ratios, but both of them have those recited groups, except X, N1a because these were just among 'leader people' and preV, I were just among 'common' people). Moreover, the researchers detected EU19, R1a1 and Tat-C haplogroups in the samples. The anthropological researches support these results (16 percent of the population had Mongolid, Europo-Mongoloid origin in the 10-11th centuries).[30] It might be determined, the conqueror Hungarians had mostly Europid anthropological composition.[31]
Around 830, a civil war broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes[38] of the Khazars joined the Magyars and they moved to what the Magyars call the Etelköz, i.e. the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River (today's Ukraine)[citation needed]. Around 854, the Magyars faced a first attack by the Pechenegs.[37] (According to other sources, the reason for the departure of the Magyars to Etelköz was the attack of the Pechenegs. Both the Kabars and earlier the Bulgars may have taught the Magyars their Turkic languages. The new neighbours of the Magyars were the Vikings and the eastern Slavs. Archaeological findings suggest that the Magyars entered into intense interaction with both groups.[citation needed] From 862 onwards, the Magyars (already referred to as the Ungri) along with their allies, the Kabars, started a series of looting raids from the Etelköz to the Carpathian Basin–mostly against the Eastern Frankish Empire (Germany) and Great Moravia, but also against the Balaton principality and Bulgaria en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians. I dont believe it. Look the mainstream finno ugric idea was that Turkics taught the Magyars equestrian steppe horse culture, But interestingly most of the Turkic origin words in Hungarian pertain to agriculture and the word for Horse in Hungarian is of Ugric origin not Turkic, as are many of the words asscociated with equestrian activities are also of Ugrian origin. The word Turk was asscociated with the Turk speaking peoples that came somewhere out of near Mongolia and the Turk empire lasted untill 8th century. Many tribes that were called Turks after that were actually hordes of mixed peoples with certainly a Turkic element, Avars are an example of this as were the late Huns. crap. Not by Hungarians only by others that used the word in a very generallised manner. I am aware of the competition of claiming peoples between Tukists and Iranists. Probably mixed Turko-Irano tribes but could have been many minority groups mixed into them we know even less about Avars and Huns. Dont jest you have insulted Indo European people , western world and christian world constantly. I am not really Islamophobic I am happy to accept any creed that is happy to live peacefully, tollerantly and respectfully of the laws and cultures of the communities they choose to live in. If any creed can be tolerant and flexible enough to live peacefully in a democracy then whats the problem. whatever.
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