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Post by logjiktek on Nov 6, 2010 20:41:37 GMT -5
Of course as a woman and as a human being I hate all crimes and criminals ragardless of their nationality. I BTW hate some of your posts where you offend women and even children. This is not a question, the question is how could you right something like this: How old are you? Could you really be that naive? I talked with people via Internet, they told me something a little bit different about Albanians, why should I believe you more than I believe them? Again, I spoke with a Czech via Internet and I understand when she told me about things from your article, but when an Albanian feels he is in the position to lecture us? It's really funny. It's not even funny. LOL you talk with ppl on the internet? Classic. So tell me Svetlena, which Russian bride ordering site are you selling yourself off on? Or does your Turkish pimp take care of these sort of things?
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 6, 2010 21:31:26 GMT -5
Logjiktek,
Were you sold to pedophiles as a kid? Have you been working hard since then?
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 13, 2010 17:42:29 GMT -5
Red Army troops raped even Russian women as they freed them from camps By Daniel Johnson 12:01AM GMT 24 Jan 2002
THE Red Army's orgy of rape in the dying days of Nazi Germany was conducted on a much greater scale than previously suspected, according to a new book by the military historian Anthony Beevor.
Beevor, the author of the best-selling Stalingrad, says advancing Soviet troops raped large numbers of Russian and Polish women held in concentration camps, as well as millions of Germans.
The extent of the Red Army's indiscipline and depravity emerged as the author studied Soviet archives for his forthcoming book Berlin, to be published in April by Viking.
Beevor - who was educated at Sandhurst and served in the 11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own), an elite cavalry regiment - says details of the Soviet soldiers' behaviour have forced him to revise his view of human nature.
"Having always in the past slightly pooh-poohed the idea that most men are potential rapists, I had to come to the conclusion that if there is a lack of army discipline, most men with a weapon, dehumanised by living through two or three years of war, do become potential rapists," he told The Bookseller.
He appears to echo the American feminist Marilyn French's notorious claim that "in their relations with women, all men are rapists, and that's all they are".
Any such resemblance is, however, superficial. Beevor is careful to qualify any suggestion that what happened from 1944 onwards is in any way typical of male behaviour in peacetime. But he admits that he was "shaken to the core" to discover that Russian and Polish women and girls liberated from concentration camps were also violated.
"That completely undermined the notion that the soldiers were using rape as a form of revenge against the Germans," he said.
"By the time the Russians reached Berlin, soldiers were regarding women almost as carnal booty; they felt because they were liberating Europe they could behave as they pleased. That is very frightening, because one starts to realise that civilisation is terribly superficial and the facade can be stripped away in a very short time."
Beevor's high reputation as a historian ensures that his claims will be taken seriously. Stalingrad was widely praised and awarded the prestigious Samuel Johnson Prize, the Wolfson Prize for History and the Hawthornden Prize.
His account of the siege of Berlin, however, promises to be more controversial. "In many ways the fate of the women and the girls in Berlin is far worse than that of the soldiers starving and suffering in Stalingrad."
To understand why the rape of Germany was so uniquely terrible, the context is essential. Operation Barbarossa, the Nazi invasion of Russia in 1941, began the most genocidal conflict in history. Perhaps 30 million inhabitants of the Soviet Union are now thought to have died during the war, including more than three million who were deliberately starved in German PoW camps.
The Germans, having shown no quarter, could expect none in return. Their casualties were also on a vast scale. In the Battle of Berlin alone more than a million German soldiers were killed or died later in captivity, plus at least 100,000 civilians. The Soviet Union lost more than 300,000 men.
Against this horrific background, Stalin and his commanders condoned or even justified rape, not only against Germans but also their allies in Hungary, Romania and Croatia. When the Yugoslav Communist Milovan Djilas protested to Stalin, the dictator exploded: "Can't he understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle?"
And when German Communists warned him that the rapes were turning the population against them, Stalin fumed: "I will not allow anyone to drag the reputation of the Red Army in the mud."
The rapes had begun as soon as the Red Army entered East Prussia and Silesia in 1944. In many towns and villages every female, aged from 10 to 80, was raped. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel laureate who was then a young officer, described the horror in his narrative poem Prussian Nights: "The little daughter's on the mattress,/Dead. How many have been on it/A platoon, a company perhaps?"
But Solzhenitsyn was rare: most of his comrades regarded rape as legitimate. As the offensive struck deep into Germany, the orders of Marshal Zhukov, their commander, stated: "Woe to the land of the murderers. We will get a terrible revenge for everything."
By the time the Red Army reached Berlin its reputation, reinforced by Nazi propaganda, had already terrified the population, many of whom fled. Though the hopeless struggle came to an end in May 1945, the ordeal of German women did not.
How many German women were raped? One can only guess, but a high proportion of at least 15 million women who either lived in the Soviet Union zone or were expelled from the eastern provinces. The scale of rape is suggested by the fact that about two million women had illegal abortions every year between 1945 and 1948.
It was not until the winter of 1946-47 that the Soviet authorities, concerned by the spread of disease, imposed serious penalties on their forces in East Germany for fraternising with the enemy.
Soviet soldiers saw rape, often carried out in front of a woman's husband and family, as an appropriate way of humiliating the Germans, who had treated Slavs as an inferior race with whom sexual relations were discouraged. Russia's patriarchal society and the habit of binge-drinking were also factors, but more important was resentment at the discovery of Germany's comparative wealth.
The fact, highlighted by Beevor, that Soviet troops raped not only Germans but also their victims, recently liberated from concentration camps, suggests that the sexual violence was often indiscriminate, although far fewer Russian or Polish women were raped when their areas were liberated compared to the conquered Germans.
Jews, however, were not necessarily regarded by Soviet troops as fellow victims of the Nazis. The Soviet commissars had commandeered German concentration camps in order to incarcerate their own political prisoners, who included "class enemies" as well as Nazi officials, and their attitude towards the previous inmates was, to say the least, unsentimental.
As for the millions of Russian prisoners or slave workers who survived the Nazis: those who were not executed as traitors or sent to the Gulag could count themselves lucky. The women among them were probably treated no better than the Germans, perhaps worse.
The rape of Germany left a bitter legacy. It contributed to the unpopularity of the East German communist regime and its consequent reliance on the Stasi secret police. The victims themselves were permanently traumatised: women of the wartime generation still refer to the Red Army war memorial in Berlin as "the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist".
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 13, 2010 17:46:28 GMT -5
An image is worth a thousand words: Liberator and Liberated, a book later turned into a documentary about the largest case of mass rape in human history. Larger even than the Mongols, who you can see clearly left traces of their blood into Russian DNA. Russian soldiers rape girls as young as 7. Often infront of their own helpless family members.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 18:38:40 GMT -5
Britain and the USA should have liberated Europe themselves especially since they had agreement with Poland. They had a lot of time from 1939 to 1944 to do it, yet they prefered to wait until the USSR came to Europe.
Information about behavior of some soldiers in Eastern Prussia was not spread in the USSR in order not to spoil image of the army. Just like your Albanian/USA/West propaganda doesn't tell you about the behavior of your fighters/rebels/terrorists/whatever. But are you really so naive to believe they were/are any better?
Those Soviets who happened to be in the Balkans were terrified at the male's behavior there.
It's really very funny when an Albanian tries to critisized the others PRESENTING Albanian fighters/rebels/terrorists/whatever as an example of war discipline.
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 13, 2010 18:47:02 GMT -5
US was happy enough to allow Russian soldiers to die and then scoop up the victory afterwards, to the detriment of the eastern Europeans that were "liberated". The Soviets in the Balkans wrote this: albanianhistory.net/texts20_1/AH1912_2.html Leo Trotsky: Behind the Curtains of the Balkan Wars Whole Albanian villages had been transformed into columns of flames – in the distance, nearby, and even right along the railway line. This was my first, real, authentic view of war, of the merciless mutual slaughter of human beings. Homes were burning. People’s possessions handed down to them by their fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers were going up in smoke. The bonfires repeated themselves monotonously all the way to Skopje. We arrived at ten at night. I clambered out of the cattle car I had been travelling in. The whole town was deathly silent. There was not a soul out on the streets. Right in front of the train station, there was a group of soldiers making drunken noises. All those who had arrived by train disappeared in the dark and I soon found myself alone at the station. Four soldiers held their bayonets in readiness and in their midst stood two young Albanians with their white felt caps on their heads. A drunken sergeant – a komitadji – was holding a kama (a Macedonian dagger) in one hand and a bottle of cognac in the other. The sergeant ordered: ‘On your knees!’ (The petrified Albanians fell to their knees. ‘To your feet!’ They stood up. This was repeated several times. Then the sergeant, threatening and cursing, put the dagger to the necks and chests of his victims and forced them to drink some cognac, and then… he kissed them. Drunk with power, cognac and blood, he was having fun, playing with them as a cat would with mice. The same gestures and the same psychology behind them. The other three soldiers, who were not drunk, stood by and took care that the Albanians did not escape or try to resist, so that the sergeant could enjoy his moment of rapture. ‘They’re Albanians,’ said one of the soldiers to me dispassionately. ‘Hell soon put them out of their misery.’Albanians are not the example of discipline. But again, unless you can bring even the most remote possible evidence for Albanian wartime crimes that come even close to the inhumanity above, go ahead. I brought plenty of evidence that pretty much shows that cases of rape in Kosovo have always been negligable. Again, Russians were the ones who raped even concentration camp survivors. Again, Albanians never committed anywhere near half of what the Serbs committed, and not 1/1000000 of what the Russians committed. Plus this isnt a proven Russian crimes vs. anti-Albanian sourceless allegations topic. Its a topic about Russian war crime of mass rape conducted in eastern europe as it "liberated" it. If it was "some" than it wouldnt have been 2 million German women + over a million other (including your dear Serbs) people. That kind of number sounds to me like a good percentage of the Russian army, maybe even the majority, took part in these cruel acts. Very likely your own grandparents were rapists
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 18:51:45 GMT -5
Perhaps it's the first time I absolutely agree with you.
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 13, 2010 18:53:01 GMT -5
Who isnt happy to let Russians die. Without Russia half of the world would be free and happy.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 19:01:01 GMT -5
... and your mother was/is a b..tch and your grandparents were rapists and organ smugglers.
As for my grandparents - they didn't participate in the war - very rare case.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 19:02:37 GMT -5
Just read Carla del Ponte's book about the Albanians.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 19:04:48 GMT -5
Without the Russians there would be the third reih instead of Europe.
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 13, 2010 19:08:34 GMT -5
You made allegations, not me. I provided evidence. Its on you to provide evidence now.
No there would just be a lot of happy and free nations that were never destroyed by planned economies and mass rape
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 19:14:03 GMT -5
As for evidence - I can't send you the book. I already scanned pages from the book and posted here, but they are in Russian.
and if it hadn't been for Russians who would have forced Germans to left occupied countries?
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Post by toskaliku on Nov 13, 2010 19:15:39 GMT -5
You really have a small imagination.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 19:16:51 GMT -5
Albania still would have been very misarable country where people are glad to rape each other.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 19:19:04 GMT -5
Oh, how comes I didn't guess? Of course Albanians would have forced Germans go.
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Post by logjiktek on Nov 13, 2010 19:24:56 GMT -5
Albania still would have been very misarable country where people are glad to rape each other. Again, rape is a Slavic trait. We Albanians don't rape we have charisma to pick up Slavic b*tches (to be fair it doesn't take much to get a Ruskie into bed.) Chances are most Albanians have busted their first nut in some Slavic skank.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Nov 13, 2010 20:27:25 GMT -5
I am not interested in speaking with stupid teenagers any more.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Nov 14, 2010 3:45:17 GMT -5
You were up to now?
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Post by drinus123 on Nov 14, 2010 17:54:01 GMT -5
It's a no brainer than US and most western countries for that matter. They are a million times better when it comes to human rights. It shouldn't even be on a comparison list with Russia. because they are at a different time and level of development. have more experience with democracy and civic society. sort of like comparing bangladesh with norway. misconceptions about ww2, is that 'red army' liberated Europe when communist crimes should be condemned as well.
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