wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 2, 2010 0:52:00 GMT -5
Desire, if we are to reject Hadiths because it appeared after the death of our prophet (salal lahu alayhi wa salaam) then what would be the Sunnah? Isnt the Hadiths are the Sunnah?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 2, 2010 15:51:34 GMT -5
Thracian I dare you to find a passage in the Koran that mentions there are 5 pillars of Islam, or anything that says If you don't follow the 5 pillars you cannot be a Muslim. That is the most ridiculous thing said so far, this is called in Turkish Yobazlik. As an educated Muslim, It bothers me that these villager type beliefs still exist. I can guarantee that you have not read the Koran Thracian and can only talk about what others have told you.
If you cannot find any sort of proof to back up your words then kindly back off and allow those that know about the subject to debate.
Yeni, I never said they don't exist. I said they are not the 5 pillars as the ignorant believe. There is one pillar and that is the whole Kuran. You cannot pick 5 things out of the Kuran and decide they are the most important things, nobody has this right. Each person takes their own personal message remember?
Yeni in regards to the prayer, in this case, yes it mentions a sort of prayer and what to do.... does this need to be expanded on? Isn't Allahs sayings enough here that we need a man made hadith to expressly state what we should be doing?
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 2, 2010 16:27:07 GMT -5
Yeni and Wbb already answered your questions about the 5 Pillars, so what more do you want?
I have read the Koran numerous times, who are you to say what I have and haven't read.
No it isn't, its the tenants of faith. Excuse me villager beliefs? hahah, you wish.
I didn't pick them, Muslim scholars picked the pillars from the sayings of the Prophet. It isn't made up.
That's what more than 2 Billion Muslims believe, and you represent .001% of the total worlds Muslims.
It's obvious you have so much inat for something in wish you do not properly know.
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 2, 2010 16:39:15 GMT -5
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 2, 2010 16:42:24 GMT -5
Don't you think Mummmad not only recited verses from Gabriel, but also taught his society what God ordered? The 5 Pillars are the foundation of Faith. I never denied to not listen to the Koran or something. Of course we read the Koran and apply what we learn. The 5 Pillars are the 5 Main important things about being Muslim. Why can't you comprehend this?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 3, 2010 4:58:00 GMT -5
This is the most ABSURD comment ever:
To be a Muslim you must say the Kelime i tevhid
haha its very funny what you claim Thracian, really don't be offended but if you don't know about islam you should not be involved here, in this discussion.
This question is for anybody that has real knowledge on the subject that claims that there are 5 pillars of Islam:
WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE KURAN THAT YOU MUST FOLLOW THE 5 PILLARS OF ISLAM?
don't show me mickypedia sources, don't show me websites, don't show me one random ayet telling us how to pray.
ACTUALLY show me the passage in the Kuran something similar to this:
"O BELIEVERS IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE 5 PILLARS OF ISLAM AS ALLAH HAS ORDERED AND TOLD TO HZ MUHAMMED THEN YOU CANNOT BE A MUSLIM"
I want this proof. If you had read the Kuran you would be fully aware that such an order does not exist, this was made up by old men years after the prophets death.,,, and then people dare to tell me they know about Islam.... ignorance.
THERE IS NOT 5 MAIN THINGs, EVERYTHING IN THE KURAN IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING MUSLIM. YOU CANNOT DECIDE TO DO 5 AND IGNORE THE REST, THIS IS BORING NOW.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 3, 2010 10:20:07 GMT -5
The Kuran is a book written in perfection it doesn't need additional help in following Islam. The Author of the book is ALLAH, Allah tells us what we need to do, and guarantees that the book is perfect. I DON'T NEED ANY OTHER HADITHS, OLD MEN, HE SAID SHE SAID STORIES TO HELP ME KNOW MY RELIGION. In addition to this There is no such thing in the Kuran and sunni, alevi, shia etc.... these are again man made splits of the religion. There can only be one Islam ONE ISLAM. Each man subdivided sect of Islam has their own set of beliefs and pillars and ideas .... but the Kuran never splits Islam and always states ONLY THE ISLAM AND MUSLUMAN. Yobaz, and ignorants throughtout the years split the religion up into tiny pieces and sub sects, which causes ALL THIS stupid Islamic law crap /// WHAT IS SHARIAH LAW? nothing A MAN MADE SET OF RULES, manipulating the Kuran to integrate it with cultural beliefs..... Shariah means the right way.... Islamic law has no basis.... Humans cannot judge ONLY ALLAH can judge.... thank you for learning
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 3, 2010 17:00:06 GMT -5
DY, I don't know why you have such a big reaction to the TRUTH.
Of course you're supposed to say Sahadet Kelimesi to become a Muslim, but that does not mean your duties end there.
As a Muslim u are supposed to follow the 5 Pillars as a foundation to the religion - Why are you so opposed to it?
Additionally, the Koran does not contain everything, as there are sayings that the prophet taught to his followers in: law, in prayer, in conduct etc that are NOT contained in the Koran.
Of course God didn't intend for different sects to occur, but it did, it also did in Judaism and Christianity - although they are quite different sects when it comes to beliefs; Muslim sects are not so different, b/c we believe in all the same prophets, have the same prayers.
The Ayets are quoted from the Koran, what more can u ask for??
I never said to ignore what the KOran teacches besides the 5 PIllars. If you read the website carefully you would have seen that it says the Pillars are the foundations and that you should not ignore the Koran about other things it says.
Actually Islamic Law is not all cultural. In fact, When Mumammad became Muslim, the ARabs hated him, b/c they practiced killing their babies who were females. He ended that horrible Arab culture. There are numerous other examples of what Muhammad changed due to God's teachings.
How can you claim such a thing as a Hadith being man-made then?
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 3, 2010 17:01:31 GMT -5
Thank you for learning and opening your mind a little.
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 3, 2010 17:04:02 GMT -5
We all know Islam isn't a new religion, it was the same religion revealed to Jews and Christians, however our belief is that they changed the books, and changed some of their beliefs accordingly.
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 3, 2010 17:26:05 GMT -5
to each his own...
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 3, 2010 17:31:10 GMT -5
And don't you think that there is a difference btwn a Muslim who believes in Islam, and a Muslim that believes, does namaz, fasts, etc. Of course there is. However In the end, ultimately God will decide and judge that person b/c I belive a person's heart must be pure before anything else - and that ppl's intentions matter the most.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 3, 2010 18:20:17 GMT -5
OMG this has got to be the funniest quote of the year: everything about Islam is NOT in the Kuran..... puahaha. Im sorry u killed it with this statement. THE KURAN IS ISLAM. EnAm 38 clearly states that the Kuran has neglected nothing in the book; it is perfect. You of course couldn't find anything in the Kuran that mentions the 5 pillars or any of the crap you believe in. Shocking right, and just like certain backwards ignorant people that believe everything told to them and even if they are SHOWN and PROVEN they are wrong, you blindly continue defending your weak beliefs, well done you are officially the model that the west thinks Muslims are. Question what you know. Learn, expand your mind. ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahhhhahahaaaaahhahahahahahah
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 4, 2010 16:08:30 GMT -5
I never said the Koran wasn't perfect, you try to act like u know everythign but you don't.
The quotes are all from the Koran -you are just ignoring them now!!
There are things that the prophet taught his ppl - which isn't there ! Like LAW first and moremost.
You are too funnyy !!!!!!
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 4, 2010 16:17:35 GMT -5
Thracian you don't know what Islam is, Islam is the KURAN.
Allah is the Author, the book is perfect.
Laws and other teachings are not a part of ISLAM they are only teachings of men and all open to criticism and to failure.
The Prophet was a MESSENGER not an AUTHOR, Allah states the Kuran is perfect, that is what Allah wanted us to learn, if Allah wanted us to believe in the Hadiths it would have said so in the Kuran.
Sadly for you, you just cannot understand what Islam is, Islam is the Kuran and Allah, Hz Muhammed is the messenger, but anything that happened after the Kuran finished is not a part of Islam, The prophet applied cultural laws and thoughts to his teachings.
After the Prophet died 10s maybe 100's of years later other normal men write his memoirs most probably adding all sorts of their own views and ideas? This is even more dodgy and imperfect... and then people, such as yourself, believe it?
Tragically funny.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 4, 2010 16:19:45 GMT -5
which quotes from the Kuran am I ignoring sorry?
I don't deny anything doesn't exist, I refuse to accept the stupid idea that these are the 5 pillars, since it doesn't say in the Kuran that they are. The Kuran is a higher source than any hadith or man.
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Post by thracian08 on Dec 4, 2010 17:07:03 GMT -5
you know what it is pointless to write to you again, i am stated my points, have given you references.
You assume that the Prophet's companians made up the Hadiths "cultural" beliefs, not from the Koran - I don't. To each his own...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 4, 2010 17:12:32 GMT -5
My point is even if they did or didn't - THE KURAN DOESN'T CONDONE THEM and advises us to believe ONLY in the Kuran.
End of the story is where the Kuran starts.... thanks for your troubles, My source is the Kuran.... you definitely haven't read it, or if you did you didn't understand it for sure.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 5, 2010 6:26:27 GMT -5
Topic locked as its going nowhere
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