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Post by vinjak on Dec 11, 2010 0:33:10 GMT -5
In the summer of 1991 - before any clashes occurred in Vukovar, eastern Croatia, Merčep, who was the local police chief, is believed to have detained and murdered more than 20 Serb civilians from the area. ZAGREB -- Croatia's wartime deputy Interior Minister Tomislav Merčep has been detained in Zagreb this morning, local media are saying. Merčep's name has been mentioned in connection to several war crimes, reports Croatia's state television HRT. He has never been indicted. Merčep's alleged victims during the war of the early 1990s were ethnic Serbs. A recent Amnesty International reports called on the government in Zagreb to process war crimes, and to investigate public accusations against Vladimir Šeks, Tomislav Merčep and Davor Domazet, who are all believed to have taken part in committing war crimes. The report said that there were public testimonies of a number of former Croatian Interior Ministry reserve unit members, and media reports about the crimes committed near Pakrac and elsewhere in Croatia. But their commander, Tomislav Merčep, remained "untouchable". In the summer of 1991 - before any clashes occurred in Vukovar, eastern Croatia, Merčep, who was the local police chief, is believed to have detained and murdered more than 20 Serb civilians from the area. Many of the victims' bodies have not yet been recovered. The Hague Tribunal sent a large volume of documentation on Merčep and his unit's crimes, but up until this point, Croatia launched no proceedings against him. One of the most serious scandals in the Croatian judiciary is also related to Merčep's unit. In December 1991, they murdered three members of a Serb family in Zagreb: 12-year-old Aleksandra Zec and both her parents. Neighbors managed to save two other children.
Although the Merčep men admitted to the crime, they were set free due to a procedural error in the court procedure. Six others from the same unit were on trial for crimes near Pakrac in western Slavonia, where they imprisoned, tortured and murdered 18 Serb civilians in November and December 1991. A first-degree court set them free, while Croatia's Supreme Court in 2001 sent the case to retrial. They were sentenced and sent to prison, but the Supreme Court overturned the verdicts and sent the case to another retrial. www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=12&dd=10&nav_id=71429
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Post by uz on Jul 4, 2011 18:58:08 GMT -5
I just googled Vukovar under images, and every single picture is of destruction.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 4, 2011 21:35:25 GMT -5
Noone knows about what these bastards where doing to Serbs before The army arrived, all they saw was a large army and people resisting , we (Serbs) where stupid when it came to propaganda our enemys learnt to use it to there advantage.
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Post by uz on Jul 4, 2011 21:44:07 GMT -5
Absolutely. We tried to be honest and honorable about the whole thing, and look what happened.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 4, 2011 22:35:34 GMT -5
^Stop it. The serbs were honest and all the peoples they fought were all twisted SOBs. Why did five different groups have a common enemy if that were the case. You guys are stupid as vinjak said. All you have to do is change your approach and fess up to your wrongdoings. Only then can the region as a whole move ahead. Your propaganda reminds me of a nerdy guy who just begs and begs to bone a hot chic. Eventually that chic just says fcuk it and gives him a pity f**k. You are some sorry motherf**kers.
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Post by uz on Jul 4, 2011 23:30:50 GMT -5
This is an awful analogy, considering the side you are arguing for lol. Albanians are the ones who bent over for USA/EU/NATO, after all their crying and broken dreams of dardaniana. To get even it was decided that shamelessness is better than nothing. That must of been some gangbang.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 5, 2011 0:12:42 GMT -5
This is a thread about that bastard Mercep and his Ustasa wanna be criminals. His actions did not start a war or prolonge that war etc etc etc, it is however exposing an animal that killed innocents. And it counters the claim by some, that Vukovar was a rainbow city where everyone was holding hands and singing, until the evil Serbs arrived.
lets keep it on topic.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 5, 2011 2:46:11 GMT -5
This is an awful analogy, considering the side you are arguing for lol. Albanians are the ones who bent over for USA/EU/NATO, after all their crying and broken dreams of dardaniana. To get even it was decided that shamelessness is better than nothing. That must of been some gangbang. Shamelessness? gangbang? Wasnt it Belgrade that was lit up like a Christmas tree? Got rammed more than Jenna Jameson.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 5, 2011 8:59:33 GMT -5
Apparently B92 has its timeline a bit messed up. They said Mercep's men comitted the crimes b4 the Serb aggression on Vukovar yet these crimes are documented in December of 1991 and the earliest November , well into the fighting.
I agree with justice to all criminals regardless of ethnicity but to use this as a justification for annihilating practically the whole majority Croat population in Vukovar is nonsense.
I remember on RTS they were talking about how our guys nailed Serbian babies to doors and the Serbs would believe the craziest nonsense so long as it fueled their hatred of us. Serbs were causing trouble in the region long before Mercep's men ever were involved.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 5, 2011 9:03:54 GMT -5
This is a thread about that bastard Mercep and his Ustasa wanna be criminals. His actions did not start a war or prolonge that war etc etc etc, it is however exposing an animal that killed innocents. And it counters the claim by some, that Vukovar was a rainbow city where everyone was holding hands and singing, until the evil Serbs arrived. lets keep it on topic. Nobody believes Vukovar was a place of harmony before the Serb death squads arrived. There was already local fighting in Borovo Selo and Borovo Naselje not to mentioned the outlying due west roads toward Dakovo. Tudjman made a critical error with Vukovar IMO but many will disagree. We probably had the means to fight it out longer and maybe prevent a complete sacking.
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Post by uz on Jul 5, 2011 9:06:46 GMT -5
Yes, Croats and Bosnians would beleive the most ridiculous nonsense just to fuel their hate. This was war, now look around. Btw it was the Croats who started the violence towards Serbs.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 5, 2011 9:23:38 GMT -5
Hard to know who exactly started what. But the Serb death squads upped the ante on what violence is all about. And Serbs were already logging down roads and arming themselves up before there was 'official fighting.' It was already in the plan to cleanse Croats out of the so-called Krajina and they succeeded with 80,000 Croats cleared out long before Oluja ended the war.
But everyone is gonna believe their own crap. I don't claim my side was angels but certainly a played a more defensive ( vs aggressive) role. It was our country afterall , not Serbia.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 5, 2011 9:29:40 GMT -5
Yes, Croats and Bosnians would beleive the most ridiculous nonsense just to fuel their hate. This was war, now look around. Btw it was the Croats who started the violence towards Serbs. We have nothing on you guys when it comes to fearmongering. We defintely take a backseat here. This is something Serbs are defintely better than us at.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 5, 2011 17:52:01 GMT -5
I think it is you who has the timelines mixed up and clearly you did not read and comprehend the article.
In December this bastard draged out and murdered a family in Zagreb
The Article mentions that in the summer of 1991 This Ustasa started murdering local civilian Serbs.
The seige of Vukovar began in late August
Mercep and his thugs where rounding up and killing Serbs before any clashes in Vukovar.
Now since we have cleared that up lets go back to what I said earlier, This article and my comments are about Mercep and his murderous thugs, not about what started, who started the war.... Vukovar was a target and a military goal, what Mercep did before the fighting began in Vukovar had no effect on that goal, however it did have an effect on what happened once Vukovar fell, and the cowards who a few months earlier had roamed the streets looking for Serbs now where cowering with the wounded and the women and children but Mercep himself was enjoying the last of the Summer in Zagreb.
You mention Borovo selo well that is another thing altogether so if you want to talk about what happened there by all means start a thread I wwould be more than happy to discuss.
You also mention Croatia's was a defenseive war and for the most part you are correct however in the beggining it was a campaign of provocations and attacks if you wish start a thread and we can discuss this also.
Also we can discuss what this bastard and his thugs did in Gospic ...start the threads if you want.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 6, 2011 9:05:44 GMT -5
Why are you correlating this to Vukovar? A murder in Zagreb has nothing to do with who started what in Vukovar. This is a separate matter.
The fighting around Vukovar began far before that.
Evidence?
Based on the article you concluded that Croats were the overall aggressors in Vukovar.
Vukovar had its military importance for both sides , true . But the destruction of Vukovar was about much more than that. It was about eradicating the Croat presence there and the attempt to make it eternally Serb.
Borovo had a direct impact on what happened in Vukovar.
Both sides took any advantage they could but overall the Serb forces at this time had a huge advantage in terms of logistics. Are you seriously going to tell me that the capture of Vukovar wasn't in the plans for the so-called RSK and only when the Croats 'provoked' was Vukovar on the table?
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Post by vinjak on Jul 6, 2011 18:46:00 GMT -5
Wow I honestly thought we could have an intelligent discussion but after the above responses I see that it is impossible ...why you giving me one liner's ? I said if you want to discuss the other matters open a thread. Why are you correlating this to Vukovar? A murder in Zagreb has nothing to do with who started what in Vukovar. This is a separate matter.Simply because you misread the article and then blamed the author for mixing up timelines I even highlighted to make it easier for you. and again you blab without comprehending the article IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO STARTED WHAT IN VUKOVAR IT IS ABOUT MERCEPS MURDERS BEORE ANY ARMED CLASHEShow many freakin times must I explain this to you this was your quote and why I highlighted Zagreb, Apparently B92 has its timeline a bit messed up. They said Mercep's men comitted the crimes b4 the Serb aggression on Vukovar yet these crimes are documented in December of 1991
----------- The fighting around Vukovar began far before that.it seems You are very challenged when trying to comprehend and understand the written word seriously if you want to freakin discuss anything with me then learn how to understand what is written. Based on the article you concluded that Croats were the overall aggressors in Vukovar.Pfft based on your dumazz answers it is easy to conclude that you have trouble understanding anything. I already told you that Vukovar was a important target...I already told you that what Mercep and those animals did had no effect on the outcome. This isnt about agressors or normal Croats defending their city and familys this is about that Murderer Mercep and his thugs Ffks sake how can you not understand that ? Evidence?Are you kidding me ? His own men are accusing him to try and save there own azzes and there testimonys match with what the survivors have been saying. Vukovar had its military importance for both sides , true . But the destruction of Vukovar was about much more than that. It was about eradicating the Croat presence there and the attempt to make it eternally Serb.If you knew the military doctrine of the JNA you would know that it (JNA) was based on a occupied defensive strategy....there was no scalpel modern urban force strategy it was a bulldozer total destruction strategy, designed for a very different time that is why resistance was met with total destruction of the city....example, if you are shooting from a balcony of a unit in a building the whole building would be brought down this was the way the JNA was designed and trained. And yes once the city fell there was a cleansing campaign all Croat civilians where made to leave. but again that has nothin to do with the article. Borovo had a direct impact on what happened in Vukovar.What do you mean by that ? your not suggesting that it was because of events in Borovo that Mercep was murdering civilans ? Are you seriously going to tell me that the capture of Vukovar wasn't in the plans for the so-called RSK and only when the Croats 'provoked' was Vukovar on the table?This just proves that your having difficulty comprehending what is written lolol I explained a few times , and very clearly, that Vukovar was an important objective for Serb forces I also explained that what the Mercep and his Ustasa did had no effect on the goal and outcome of Vukovar it did however have a direct effect on what happened after the fall of Vukovar. Damn Bro you really need to take a breath and dont let emotions rule you and make you look like a total knucklehead.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 7, 2011 9:05:26 GMT -5
Clashes around Vukovar started in May of 1991 btw. Zec's murder in November-December is unrrelated to Vukovar as far as I know. What is the point of mentioning it?
It seemed that you were convinced other wise. Serbs and Croats were fighting as early as May.
You seem to think there was zero fighting before August. If this is what the author suggest he is wrong.
You seem to draw the conclusion that the seige of Vukovar was justified based on the crimes and alleged crimes of Mercep and his men.
Moot point. I am not justifying any crime or alleged crime Mercep has done.
So? But hospitals and schools were leveled. The strat wasn't only overwhelming force it was the destruction and reconstruction of Vukovar into a Serbian city.
And killed.
Well the only civilians we can pretty much sure of was the Zec family. And no , there is no justification for murdering disabled and civilians no matter who does it. I don't give a crap about Mercep , never did , It's your conclusion that Mercep's actions and alleged actions justified the destruction of Vukovar. This is the feedback I interpreted from you. Tell me if I'm wrong.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 7, 2011 16:58:08 GMT -5
This is the feedback I interpreted from you. Tell me if I'm wrong.
You are wrong.
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Post by uz on Feb 11, 2012 22:18:33 GMT -5
Ex-Croat official goes on trial for war crimesA former senior Croatian official has pleaded not guilty to charges that he ordered the abduction, torture and killing of Serb civilians during the nation's war in 1991-95.Former assistant interior minister Tomislav Mercep also is charged with doing nothing to prevent such crimes while being aware of them as a senior official.
He entered his plea at the start of a trial Friday that is part of Croatia's efforts to meet requirements about dealing with its wartime past as it tries to join the European Union in 2013.
Prosecutors say Mercep personally organized and ordered the illegal imprisonment of some 52 Serb civilians, most of whom were later killed, including a family with a 12-year-old daughter.
The war erupted when Croatia's Serbs rebelled against the country's independence from the former Yugoslavia.www.cbsnews.com/8301-501714_162-57375828/ex-croat-official-goes-on-trial-for-war-crimes/
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