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Post by rusebg on Jan 26, 2011 5:21:58 GMT -5
So you've made it in his list ;D
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Post by terroreign on Jan 26, 2011 5:41:59 GMT -5
Whatever man, "Bosniak" then including MNE-Sanxhak. Now do you have a point, or are you just here to point out non-related technicalities? The point: Serbs in pre-Ottoman Greece -> Conversion with the Ottomans -> Assimilation into Orthodox Greeks = Abdikos This is a clear possibility if you evaluate historical facts.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 5:57:44 GMT -5
^^^ no problem my son. You will get what you deserve anyway, so no point in being nice with me. PS Are you sure you are not Andromeda in disguise? PS2 I would bet 10 euros you are croatian right? Duh. I'm Croatian. Others already know that. You must have caught on late. Only 10 euros? wasn't it apparent that i had no clue what you were? (not that i really care, but its just that most people here could be identified from 100 km away)
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 5:58:28 GMT -5
Whatever man, "Bosniak" then including MNE-Sanxhak. Now do you have a point, or are you just here to point out non-related technicalities? The point: Serbs in pre-Ottoman Greece -> Conversion with the Ottomans -> Assimilation into Orthodox Greeks = Abdikos This is a clear possibility if you evaluate historical facts. It can also be wonderful speculation. Nobody can say for sure that there were no Serbs in Greece nor can they say that if there were , they didn't convert. I haven't seen any evidence presented that offers this hypothesis any kind of smoking gun. The skepticism is warranted I think.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 26, 2011 5:58:33 GMT -5
It's not a secret that Serbs first settled in the Salonica province. Thessaloniki yes but then the same source that says that says their abandoned it by migrating back home but then decided to settle in land where the Avars previously controlled before the Croats did away with them. That raises two interesting questions. Did any Serbs stay behind? Did they after words already begin to live mixed with Croats in the northern areas? Ah , the complexity and chaos of the Balkans. LOL. Like you made clear, it's all up in the air. But if we count on Human predictability, chances are some stayed. Then we do a little detective work, and take a look at a couple toponyms around this very province: Kozani, Servia, Vlasti, Livadero, Rodolivos Though these might just be coincidences or Vlach or something else, it's still intriguing. Pyrros' theory is definitely not out of question. *Update - Also to add to these supposed Serbs from the original migrations, we have Serbs that lived and probably stayed in the same area during/after Dusan's Empire. After his death Serres and the surrounding region (near Salonica) were ruled by Serb princes for 16 years.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 5:59:10 GMT -5
Duh. I'm Croatian. Others already know that. You must have caught on late. Only 10 euros? wasn't it apparent that i had no clue what you were? (not that i really care, but its just that most people here could be identified from 100 km away) I still think you're cheap for only 10 euros.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 5:59:19 GMT -5
Whatever man, "Bosniak" then including MNE-Sanxhak. Now do you have a point, or are you just here to point out non-related technicalities? The point: Serbs in pre-Ottoman Greece -> Conversion with the Ottomans -> Assimilation into Orthodox Greeks = Abdikos This is a clear possibility if you evaluate historical facts. Sometime i gotta find e.g. some Zdravos in my home town and then some e.g. Terovitsas or Abdikos who have a "boslim" flavored name and ask them things.... thats the only way actually.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 6:00:27 GMT -5
wasn't it apparent that i had no clue what you were? (not that i really care, but its just that most people here could be identified from 100 km away) I still think you're cheap for only 10 euros. No man, i can do miracles with 10 euros. 10 euros were actually too high a price.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:03:46 GMT -5
I still think you're cheap for only 10 euros. No man, i can do miracles with 10 euros. 10 euros were actually too high a price. Don't worry pyrro , I still think you were alright.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 6:12:14 GMT -5
Thessaloniki yes but then the same source that says that says their abandoned it by migrating back home but then decided to settle in land where the Avars previously controlled before the Croats did away with them. That raises two interesting questions. Did any Serbs stay behind? Did they after words already begin to live mixed with Croats in the northern areas? Ah , the complexity and chaos of the Balkans. LOL. Like you made clear, it's all up in the air. But if we count on Human predictability, chances are some stayed. Then we do a little detective work, and take a look at a couple toponyms around this very province: Kozani, Servia, Vlasti, Livadero, Rodolivos Though these might just be coincidences or Vlach or something else, it's still intriguing. Pyrros' theory is definitely not out of question. *Update - Also to add to these supposed Serbs from the original migrations, we have Serbs that lived and probably stayed in the same area during/after Dusan's Empire. After his death Serres and the surrounding region (near Salonica) were ruled by Serb princes for 16 years. Slavs were recorded as part (largest part) of the Avar invasion force all the way to the gates of Constantinople and this is before the Serbs came with the so-called second wave. They could've settled and been absorbed later by better organized Serbs and Bulgars and their Slav subjects. The only reference that spurs any kind of inquiry is 'Servia.' Again we can speculate many theories based on some historical facts. A. The Serdi tribe in or near the area. B. It could've been the Serbs Porphy speaks of and some might have stayed behind in Thessalonica. C. It's Latin for a low caste group of people that might have been put up in bondage from that general area. D. As you said , it could be remnant of Dusan's Serbs who might have moved further south. I mean really , take your pick. Any one of these theories can be just as plausible is my point. In the end , I don't see how it really matters anyhow.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 6:16:36 GMT -5
Servia, Serviana, Serveika, i doubt all of the are Latin or stem from Dusan's era.
Serbs (and their derivatives) from 500-800 AD were the only habitants of Greece
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Post by terroreign on Jan 26, 2011 6:21:23 GMT -5
The point is pyrros' theory is plausible, so people shouldn't badmouth him for it. But at the same time, pyrros should look for more evidence before making any concrete claims regarding it.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 26, 2011 6:22:25 GMT -5
Serbs (and their derivatives) from 500-800 AD were the only habitants of Greece Sure sure... We still have to see any evidence supporting this (and no the Bulgarian toponyms do not proove Serb presence). Unfortunately for you, the abovementioned period is heavily recorded by Greek autors and they describe intenesively the slavic inroad into Byzantium. And no, slavs do not equal serbs.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 6:45:44 GMT -5
The point is pyrros' theory is plausible, so people shouldn't badmouth him for it. But at the same time, pyrros should look for more evidence before making any concrete claims regarding it. As a simple citizen i am doing more than my own homework regarding this matter. And of course, if i was before the dean to defend my PhD thesis i would have a concrete proof. But here we have smth totally different. A *taboo* subject touched from a totally different perspective. I am not trying to prove my theories (yet). All i do is: a) provide plain cold data b) make observations c) point to possible theories that would not self-collapse (as most related theories did in the past) in regard to the data. Claiming that "Servia" is latin, sounds as much biased and idiotic as the Albos in kosovo claiming the Serb monasteries as ... "Byzantine" or "Albanian".
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 6:51:25 GMT -5
Kozani, Servia, Vlasti, Livadero, Rodolivos Though these might just be coincidences or Vlach or something else, it's still intriguing. Pyrros' theory is definitely not out of question. *Update - Also to add to these supposed Serbs from the original migrations, we have Serbs that lived and probably stayed in the same area during/after Dusan's Empire. After his death Serres and the surrounding region (near Salonica) were ruled by Serb princes for 16 years. Livadero is originally Greek, just like "Kleisoura" Klisoura. However Serbs took those words and then gave them back to Greeks. Just like the word Cinema (kinematographos) (motion+writing) the word is of greek ingredients but a foreign word actually, which came back to greece as Cinema. Same with Discoteque.... Anyways, its not only Makedonia.... Go a little south in Thessaly, go to Meteora, just watch the surnames of people in Kalampaka.... Babic-as, Dupjan-is, Savic-is, etc.... and of course the toponyms... ZAVLAD-ion monastery, etc...
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 26, 2011 7:10:24 GMT -5
Livadero is originally Greek, just like "Kleisoura" Klisoura. However Serbs took those words and then gave them back to Greeks. Klisura is latin word that was accepted by BULGARIANS, Serbs and Greeks. I ve proven this in an old tread, but facts matter little to you I guess.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 7:10:31 GMT -5
Servia, Serviana, Serveika, i doubt all of the are Latin or stem from Dusan's era. Serbs (and their derivatives) from 500-800 AD were the only habitants of Greece 500 AD? So then the Serbs who came over a century later are unrelated? How do you fit this in your theory? How are they already in Greece before they crossed the Danube a century later? Sounds like you gotta be talking about two completely different peoples. Serv- root word ( as they called it in the Balkans) has its origins in Latin and Etruscan. Almost all foreign language references to Serbia at this period stressed the V. Good day to you sir.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jan 26, 2011 7:14:17 GMT -5
The point is pyrros' theory is plausible, so people shouldn't badmouth him for it. But at the same time, pyrros should look for more evidence before making any concrete claims regarding it. No no , he is not merely postulating a theory. He is saying that it is beyond speculation and should be taken as fact. There is a difference. And then there is the ever hounding question: WHERE DID ALL THE GREEKS VANISH? lol. I mean even you got to see that someone is really trying to scrape the the bottom of the bucket here. Plus he has a motive. Recently he's been romanticized with Serbdom so he's really trying to somehow prove his 'Serbian' roots. Typical Balkan syndrome.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 7:23:26 GMT -5
^^^ your questions are so naive. i had the same questions like 10 years ago. The only typical here is you dude : a typical newbie.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 26, 2011 7:24:47 GMT -5
Livadero is originally Greek, just like "Kleisoura" Klisoura. However Serbs took those words and then gave them back to Greeks. Klisura is latin word that was accepted by BULGARIANS, Serbs and Greeks. I ve proven this in an old tread, but facts matter little to you I guess. kleinein : Ancient/modern greek word for "closure". idiot.
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