turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 11, 2011 10:50:18 GMT -5
I started this thread because there is a misunderstanding and ignorance by the thread starter of "Turks in pictures". In her own words:
"I have realised that in Europe most of the Turks we see aren't really representative of the Turks in Turkey. This is mainly due to the fact that most of them went to Europe after 1980 from the PKK regions, Sivas, Diyarbakir, Batman, Mardin. So most were or had been mixed with Kurdish people. Who are generally of a darker complexion. They have much stronger eyebrows and more moles."
I still don't see any correction or apologies from the thread starter. I feel insulted when she calls me not-Turkish nor representative of Turks in Turkey.
I feel insulted when she thinks I am from south eastern Turkey, with big eyebrows and moles, that I was chased away to Western Europe by the pkk terrorists.
I come from central anatolia, most of the Turks here are NOT kurds from south eastern anatolia.
I live in Western Europe, my parents emigrated to this place from central anatolian plains during the 80's. We are from Afyon/Eskisehir provinces, these are pure Turkish provinces.
I think you are just being obsessed with blonde blue eyed people. The Turks here do not resemble Scandinavians, nor do they resemble dark skinned Arabs or Kurds. Most Turks have white skin or are light tanned.
We are central Anatolian Turks, I feel insulted when you feel ashamed of us and tell that Turks from Turkey are more light skinned and different than us, even tell bullsj*t that we are Kurds and come from pkk regions.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 11, 2011 16:26:48 GMT -5
You have serious comprehension problems..
try re-reading what I wrote and then, formulating an opinion about me......
you are just embarrassing yourself
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 14, 2011 7:56:54 GMT -5
You should read what you wrote on your first 2 sentences, then READ what my answer is, then come back and talk, capiche?
You are ignorant and tell lies. Educate yourself, you have serious complexes in your head. Not only Kurds have moved to Europe, also Turkish peasants from all over Turkey have moved to Europe, we all know who the Kurds here are, they are proud of their Kurdish identity here, and so far, the Turkish minority here is much bigger than the Kurdish one.
So much for your lies and pathetic theories about pkk regions lmao.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 14, 2011 17:55:24 GMT -5
So since I am an ignorant liar and pathetic, can you show me the truth? where are the statistics that surely you must have.. that make you ever so sure, of the fact that after the 1980's it wasn't mainly people from the SE of Turkey moving to Europe.
I assume you have such statistics?
Perhaps in Germany there are more Turks than Kurds, I doubt it's the same elsewhere.
By the way I am certainly NOT a peasant Turk, although you may be.
The Turks have migrated to the EU for many years before the 1980's and continued, the Kurds of Turkey started their mass immigration after the 1980's.
A little comment here: In the UK the Turks don't flaunt their Turkishness, in fact nobody even knows if you are a Turk, no one asks, and if it comes up in conversation many are surprised to find that there are so many Turks.
Whereas generally Kurdish people almost always state they are Kurdish, even through little comments like "my name is Rojda, its Kurdish. "
In Germany though I know most Turks hang about together and stick to each others arse so they are easy to see and define.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 14, 2011 18:35:27 GMT -5
Before u run your mouth to me.... educate yourself: According to UNHCR statistics, during the course of the 1990s almost 340,000 Turkish citizens applied for asylum in various European countries. Refugee recognition rates varied from country to country, and according to UNHCR, have dropped in the recent years for reasons connected to fraudulent use of the asylum channel. The worst of the conflict between the armed forces and separatist rebels wound down in the second half of the 1990s, and following the gradual introduction of political reforms, asylum applications have fallen. However, an unidentified number of Turkish nationals, again often of Kurdish origin, continue to attempt to enter EU countries illegally in search of jobs. Some of the ships carrying large numbers of irregular migrants that have recently landed on Italian and French beaches have included Turkish nationals. Not one single Turk that I know applied for asylum, every single Kurd that I know applied for asylum. Did your family apply for asylum, or are you just another guest worker Turk family in Germany ?
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 15, 2011 5:34:18 GMT -5
I have statistics for you don't worry, these numbers here are not older than 10 years, the oldest data is from Holland 2001 so your "kurdizh refugeez in ze 90'zz" numbers are included.
Germany:
Characteristics
The German state does not keep statistics on ethnicity but, subsequently, categorizes ethnic groups originating from Turkey as being of Turkish national origin. This has the consequence of ethnic minorities from Turkey living in Germany being referred to as "Turks". However, about one-fourth[50][51] to one-fifth[52][53] of Turkish nationals are ethnic Kurds (amounting to some 350,000).[54] Furthermore, the number of ethnic Turks who have immigrated to Germany from Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, the Republic of Macedonia, Romania and other traditional areas of Turkish settlement which were once part of the Ottoman territories in Europe are unknown as these Turkish minorities are categorised by their citizenship rather than their Turkish ethnicity.
Population of Kurds in Germany: a mere 350,000 or about 1/4, 1/5 of Turkish nationals are ethnic Kurds.
-----------------------------------
Holland:
Turken in Nederland OMVANG • Per 1 januari 2001 de grootste etnische minderheidsgroep in Nederland met ruim 320 duizend personen • Aantal Turken in Nederland per 1-1-2001: totaal 319.600 Geboren in Turkije (1e generatie) 181.595 Geboren in Nederland (2e generatie) 138.005 (=43%)
Wie kwamen er hierheen? Vooral plattelanders (90%), ongeschoold, analfabeten. Ze waren sterk en goedkoop, dus zeer gewild. Allen moslim, maar sterk van elkaar verschillende stromingen. Er zijn veel onderlinge verschillen. Bijv. Alevieten en Soennieten
KOERDEN IN NEDERLAND Aantal in Nederland: naar schatting 40.000 tot 100.000 (aangezien er geen officiële cijfers van Koerden in Nederland zijn, lopen de schattingen uiteen). Koerden hebben namelijk geen Koerdisch paspoort.
In English: it says that there are 320,000 Turks in Holland, religion being Sunni or Alevi form. The estimates for the Kurds vary between 40,000 to 100,000.
So all in all, Kurds are only 1/3 to 1/4 of the Turkish nationals in Holland.
-----------------------------------
BELGIUM, the place where I am from:
"Turken in België zijn ofwel Turken die buiten België zijn geboren en nu in België leven of Turken die in België geboren zijn. Er leven nu momenteel ongeveer 230.000 Turken in België.
Immigratie van Turkije naar België begon in 1963. Van de meer dan 200.000 Turken die in België wonen, is het vooral de derde generatie. Turken vormen een van de grootste allochtone groepen."
Population of Turks: 230,000, most of the Turks here come from the province of Afyon.
Kurds in Belgium: no available numbers, but their facebook page has only 2 members.
-------------------------------------
Turks+Turkish Cypriots in UK: 125,000-300,000
Academic sources place the ethnic Turkish community between 60,000 to 100,000 and ethnic Kurds between 25,000 to 50,000.[45]
Up to 1/2 of mainland Turkish nationals are ethnic Kurds.
-------------------------------------
Turks in France: 500,000
The closest number I could get for Kurdish numbers come from the site of the Kurdish institure: "There were around 150 000 Kurds in France, mainly of Turkish origin. "
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 15, 2011 5:34:34 GMT -5
COnclusion: in all the main destinations for immigration, the number of Turks are much bigger than the ethnic Kurds.
Why do u feel insulted when I say "peasants moved to Europe"? Its true, they went for economic reasons, the rich Turks had no reason to move to Europe.
Why would Turks flaunt their Turkishness? Nobody does, I dunno what kind of image you have of us, but certainly a bad one. Just a look at our name reveals what we are. Don't act like Turks in UK are ashamed of their Turkish identity. The Turkish Cypriots in UK I've met were open minded, liberal and Kemalist.
And no, we don't state were we're from, the people here often know were we're from or say: "Sezer, hmm is that Turkish or..?"
And no, I'm not from Germany, i'm from Belgium, the reason my family is here is the same reason why 99% of the Turks are in Europe.
Oh wait thats right, I cant be a Turk right? Since most of the Turks in Europe came from pkk regions and do not resemble Turks in Turkey lmao. Oh and another thing, we have also big eyebrows and moles too right? LOL!
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 15, 2011 12:13:08 GMT -5
So as I said before you have comprehension problems, I did not say "there are more Kurds in the EU than Turks, I said the main Kurdish immigration happened around the 1980's" So far nothing you have said has countered this, and the facts that you have given from Mikipedia may be gods word to you. The facts I gave were from the Migration Policy Institute. I guess that clarifies the weight of the sources used.
So again I ask, and I will try to put it simple for you:
I STATE: AFTER 1980'S MAINLY KURDISH PEOPLE IMMIGRATE TO THE EU YOU STATE: THIS IS UNTRUE
You have not given any stats regarding migrant movement around the EU, you try to give figures from mikipedia about current ethnicities in certain EU countries, this is irrelevant to the subject. This is because Turkish people have been migrating to the EU for many, many years before the Kurdish immigration began, there were Turkish Cypriots in the UK in the 1920's for example. All I know is when I was at school, suddenly we had an influx of kids from Turkey, who said "we are Kurdish" this was during the end of the 1980's to the 1990's. This is the first time i even heard the word Kurdish.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 15, 2011 12:24:41 GMT -5
Did anybody claim there are MORE KURDS THAN TURKS? if they did you answered them... but that is not what I said, I told you before you will embarrass yourself.
Firstly I do not feel at all insulted, it is nothing to do with me. Secondly "the rich Turks" as you call them, may prefer to live in a more civilized society than in Turkey. Many rich Turkish businessmen have moved to live in America and the EU, unless you claim they are peasants too.
I never said that Turks do flaunt their Turkishness? Comprehension problems again. Turks in the UK are not ashamed of their Identity, most acknowledge they are British Turks, but it isn't a major over dinner subject, whereas the newcomer Kurdish generation haven't yet become to relaxed and therefore are more likely to tell you about their identity earlier on, and after what they have been through I can understand why.
Such irrelevence.
To open a kebab shop ? claim state benefits?
I am Turkish do not speak for all Turks, speak for "your" type of Turks, whatever that may be.
Most of the Turkish nationals who came to the EU AFTER THE 1980'S were of Kurdish ethnicity, ESPECIALLY DURING THE ARMY MOVEMENT IN THE SE DISPLACING PEOPLE FROM THEIR HOMES. Are you an Idiot? or just uneducated? perhaps you just want to play dumb? I said people from the South East of Turkey are more likely to have more moles and bushier eyebrows, the South East of Turkey is a PKK region.
Please dip your head in some water to enlarge your sponge brain, perhaps you will be able to absorb and understand what I am saying to you.
[/quote]
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 15, 2011 17:09:17 GMT -5
Oh wow is that all what you can do, damage controlling and insulting because you're buddhurt?
You claimed that most of the Turks in Europe are not representative of Turks in Turkey and came from pkk regions and mixed with Kurds.
Now you come here and defend your bulls**t, why? You don't have any numbers to back you up. I put you in your place with my numbers, did you see at the beautiful and accurate numbers I gave you? Did you see, concentrate and reflect them in your brains?
But you're pathetic, still defending your ignorance.
Most Turks here do not come from pkk regions, have darker skin color, eyebrows or moles.
"Most of the Turkish nationals who came to the EU AFTER THE 1980'S were of Kurdish ethnicity"
NO, it all comes down to this... I gave you numbers, I gave you how many Turks and Kurds live here, you DONT have numbers about the Kurdish immigration after the 80's AND EVEN IF YOU HAD AND EVEN IF MORE KURDS IMMIGRATED THAN TURKS %wise
IT WOULDNT CHANGE ANYTHING SINCE TURKS ARE IN THE MAJORITY, AS OF NOW, 2011, we WERE the majority BACK in 80's and STILL are! Or wait, are you actually believing that with your imaginary numbers of Kurdish immigration after 80's, they suddenly triumphed over Turkish numbers and are AS OF NOW IN 2011 the majority of Turkish nationals??
Put this in your brains and read what your soulles body wrote: "I have realised that in Europe most of the Turks we see aren't really representative of the Turks in Turkey."
You still don't understand? Ignorance is bliss, there is no point arguing with someone who doesn't even know let alone ACKNOWLEDGE what she said wrong.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 15, 2011 17:54:11 GMT -5
I don't know what that means, but I am not insulting, I am only advising you. I said most of the immigration from Turkey during the 1980's were from Kurdish regions. I will also extend that now into the 1990s too. Most of them did. Previous to that immigration was from other areas of Turkey. Do not make up and distort what I said, anyone can read and see what I wrote, but idiots like yourself who understand with their brains full of additive E come here and try to start to argue with me Lmao. I quoted you already, but I doubt you could comprehend what was written: The majority of these displaced people have been Kurds. According to UNHCR statistics, during the course of the 1990s almost 340,000 Turkish citizens applied for asylum in various European countries. Refugee recognition rates varied from country to country, and according to UNHCR, have dropped in the recent years for reasons connected to fraudulent use of the asylum channel. ASYLUM = almost always political asylum. These are ethnically Kurdish people. There were MORE Kurdish people emmigrating in those years than there were Turks during the same period. I guess they are all super clever like you? Listen little boy, you gave me stats about Turks in EU countries, I didn't say there are more Kurdish people than Turkish people in the EU. The point isn't about are there more Turkish people or Kurdish people, I think you play too many online games or something, Triumphed over Turkish numbers etc.... wow you seem to be a little retarded, it was never the point if there are more or less Turks you by yourself decided this was the subject. Go to school, get an education, eat less kebab and more healthy food, and don't try to tell me something I didn't say or else next time I will have to insult you and I don't want you to cry that I hurt your feelings. My soulles body? is that French? lol That is exactly true, that is my opinion the Turks in Turkey Ankara, Izmir, Adana, Mersin, Eskisehir (where i used to go all the time) don't look the same as those from Sivas, Mardin, Diyarbakir, Bitlis etc. The irony of that statement My statement is explicitly clear, too bad you cant understand English.
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 16, 2011 6:50:56 GMT -5
Here we go again
You said "I have realised that in Europe most of the Turks we see aren't really representative of the Turks in Turkey. This is mainly due to the fact that most of them went to Europe after 1980 from the PKK regions"
1st, you're claiming that MOST of the Turks in Europe are not representative of Turks in Turkey, THEN you say most of them went after 1980.
This is the problem in your logic, you don't get it. According to you most of the Turks came here AFTER 1980 and that Turks before 1980 suddenly got triumphed by the influx of the numbers AFTER 1980. As if that was not enough you tell bullshit that most of the immigration AFTER 1980 was of Kurdish ethnicity from pkk regions.
Then you come up with your UNHCR numbers, a MERE and shocking 340,000 numbers! Whats amazing is that you magically know those people were of Kurdish decent!
But thats just bullshit and only someone like you would even bother to come up with this number AFTER I gave the amount of Turkish and Kurdish people in Western Europe.
The point is EXACTLY about Turkish/Kurdish numbers in EU, if thats not the case, why would you cry about "most Turkz do not rezemble Turkz in Turkey, they are Kurdz"?
I put you in your place, now stop defending your ignorant rant.
"most Turks in Europe do not resemble Turks in Turkey" lmao
If you are from Eskisehir or other places in central Anatolia, you would know how many people went to Europe, and yes I'm from Eskisehir, people from that province went with their whole villages and even married their own cousins to get a citizenship.
You have to give me props for my English, its quite good with all the other official languages we need to master in this little country.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 16, 2011 9:25:56 GMT -5
I said both of them together. Where did I say they got "triumphed?" show me?... UNHRC numbers were not what I coame up with they are official ASYLUM statistics. Whats magical is that a Turk wouldn't badmouth his/her own country to get political asylum status in another country, unless of course they are inbreds without any national pride. I knew that there are more Turks than Kurdish people in the EU years ago. Its not a new thing you presented, don't act like you found a diamond in your sh.it LOL. It is irrelevant to the discussion. You are very village,,, I can't say anything more... I know many many Turks in the EU and around the world, Australia, America etc.... NOBODY I personally know ever acted like an inbred and married their cousin, lol I have 3rd n 4th generation family living in part of the EU and America. Eskisehir is full of tatars, perhaps thats what you are or something. You certainly are Cahil as far as I am concerned. Comprehension problems, Inbred, Villager. Anyhow thanks for proving that you cannot comprehend or understand basic subjects. Perhaps your family are traitors even and bad mouthed the Turkish Govt to get citizenship I can't help it people like you, just make me feel great about being me...
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 16, 2011 11:18:40 GMT -5
"I knew that there are more Turks than Kurdish people in the EU years ago." Then why did you claim most of the Turks in Europe are not representatives of people in Turkey? Stop defending your ignorant rant, case closed. "You are very village" Is this supposed to be an insult? Its great you know many Turks in the EU, you certainly deserve a medal. Second, people married their cousins because after a time, immigration rules got tightened and stricter, the only way to get in was via marriage, families helped missing familymembers bring in, its a shady way but atleast a working way, they dont call us crazy Turks for nothing lol. Yeah, i'm tatar, good guess. We bad mouthed the Turkish Govt, we said the Turkish Govt was doing a genocide on the city of Eskisehir and the fighterjets from the nearby military airport cause too much noise Don't get sentimental, I don't care how you feel, you have a big ego tripping problem, says a lot about your character.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 16, 2011 12:56:32 GMT -5
I said this, because they are not. I lived in Turkey for almost 5 years and traveled extensively. I know what I am talking about. No it is an observation in regards to your style of speech and debate, also your reasoning. Shady way... certainly you can call it that, a criminal way to get into a country. Sorry I just disagree with those that break the law in order to achieve citizenship of another country. People from Eskisehir, the original Turks, dislike the Tatars very much I could never understand it, until meeting you, Crazy Turk?! is that what you think you are? I think you are an Idiot Tatar. No you took the better route and married your cousins disgusting. Also you are liars as you admit so proudly here haha, nice way to show your character. Ego tripping? Sentimental? I think you have serious issues in regards to communicative disagreements. Trying to judge my character? first you must develop your own character before you can try to judge others.
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 16, 2011 14:34:56 GMT -5
You don't know what you are talking about but you think you are. I wouldnt call it a criminal way to get into the country, its a loophole many people extensively used, its not like they were illegally smuggled under cargo trucks. First you claimed "Turks in Europe do not resemble Turks in Turkey" and tried to defend it, now once again, you are lying, People from Eskisehir? We are the people of Eskisehir little ignorant girl, there is no difference between "original Turks" (whats in a name lmao) and tatars, since Tatars have been assimilated, there is no we versus them as your little brains think. If Turkey functioned by your logic then we could take this country apart till we got a situation of Oghuz Turks versus cerkez, laz, bosniaks, arnavut, çeçen, gürcü, türkmen and countless citizens of various other ethnicity, race or religion. "We bad mouthed the Turkish Govt, we said the Turkish Govt was doing a genocide on the city of Eskisehir and the fighterjets from the nearby military airport cause too much noise " You fail to understand this was sarcastic? You're sad. You try to denigrate me with your useless cliché insults, you defend your lies and bullshi t rather than acknowledging the reality, and worst of all, you're ego tripping and thinking highly of your own you soi disant princess of the universe
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 16, 2011 14:57:13 GMT -5
It is criminal - A FAKE MARRIAGE - this is deemed as criminal in countries throughout the whole world. Don't try to justify the criminality of the action. LOL I think u are crazy First you claim that i said there are more Kurdish people than Turks in the EU and now you claim that I am lying... all of these words coming from someone who justifies lying to governments and justifying illegal marriages... oh the Irony. Nobody said that anybody is VS anybody, lets not get caught up in your nerdy understanding of things again, this isn't world of warcraft or whatever. I said that Tatars were disliked... that is all I said, so keep your pants on!! Cerkez, Laz, Bosnak, Arnavut, Cecen, Gurcu, are all non Turk ethnicities. They are Turkish by nationality and culture through years of assimilation. Turkmen are Turks. I think my answer to your "weak" sarcasm was clear enough. You denigrate and embarrass yourself all by yourself. I haven't told any lies, nor have I said any bulls**t however I have met a bulls**tter through you. You seem to have an inferiority complex going on.
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 16, 2011 16:53:42 GMT -5
Finding and using a loophole in a unique way is not criminal, the loophole has since then been patched.
I don't justify fake marriages, I'm just giving you a heads up how clever the Turks were and how far they would go to bring over their loved ones. You may act as if it was the end of the world, but even the Europeans were amazed.
I don't understand why you are trying to push me in a game nerd corner? What has using the word "triumph" to do with anything game related? Now you're bullshi tting again, word of warcraft? WTF?
Yes you're denigrating and calling me names, from your first comment on you acted superior
I can give you a good advice, reflect this also in your personal life: don't think highly of yourself, you are not special, the higher your ego the higher you will fall in future
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Feb 16, 2011 17:12:36 GMT -5
So this can mean one of two things: 1 They actually wanted to get married (to their cousin ) and it was legal or 2: They had a FAKE [ILLEGAL] marriage in order to get citizenship. People have been doing the very same thing for many many years, it isn't something unique to Turks. I know of Albanian, Croatian, Serbian, Indian, African and many other ethnicities that do the same things. The Loophole perhaps applies to your specific domicile, however in the world FAKE marriages are ILLEGAL. I don't call that clever. I call that criminal. The Europeans were certainly not amazed, they are well aware of how "low" some people can be. You try to turn everything into some kind of war, More Turks than Kurds, Tatars Vs Others etc... this is why. Perhaps I just am superior, this is why you feel that way. Bow down. This is quite funny - really I am amused by your efforts. Good entertainment value.
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turkish
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Post by turkish on Feb 16, 2011 18:22:57 GMT -5
Loopholes are not criminal and not punishable. The fake marriage was the loophole to get a citizenship, its not criminal, people haven't been punished for it. Its the fault of the Europeans to allow such a loophole in their laws LOL. The fact that they patched it means 1 thing only: they were wrong and fixed their error.
Some kind of war? Lol, you are the one creating a xx vs yy situation. "Turks in Europe are different than Turks in Turkey because they come from pkk regions wich is ofcourse Kurdish" "oh I heard Tatars are disliked by the original Turks" lmao, you don't know shi t about what you're talking about yet you open your mouth.
"Perhaps I just am superior, this is why you feel that way. Bow down."
Thats what I'm saying girl. You think you are superior but you're nothing special. You think very highly of yourself, your lies are pouring out of every hole in your body. Your ego is simply an idea of who you are that you carry around with you.
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