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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 21:16:02 GMT -5
Comparing a human to a chimp isn’t fair. There’s a wall of intellectuality that a chimp cannot surpass. A human being on the other hand, can always continue to learn something new.
“(hence why I advocate emotional self-control)” –
This I agree with 100%. We should be in touch with our emotions and be able to control them. Not suppress them. Having emotions is very important. Its what separates us from the “animal”.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 21:30:21 GMT -5
Toskali out of everyone else here is talking about ignoring the topic of emotions when most of the time you appear as a vulcano in a human forum in terms of how emotional you sound. Samples: It has nothing to do with emotion, as some of our mentally limited members here think. Although the end result of such a philosophy has caused tremendous emotional distress otherwise coined in German Weltschmerz (world pain). Among people suffering from such a "disease" was Albanian Migjeni and Spasse, and others such as Einstein.
Its completely cluttered your already distorted mind.
Clearly displayed emotionally charged distaste for me. PS: Annitas is far from not being emotional also just refer to his postings about Bucharest.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 21:35:29 GMT -5
Can you provide a clear example of a situation where Logic vs. Emotion can become turbulant ? Emotion is always turbulent and volatile like the wind and nature itself, in fact I believe it to be the wild or natural side of us. Emotions in chimps are almost reminiscent to a psychotic individual whom I regard as someone fully emotional and void of logic btw. There’s a wall of intellectuality that a chimp cannot surpass. A human being on the other hand, can always continue to learn something new. I did say a more evolved form but not to the extent our unrealistic emotions (what I regard our Achilles heel as species) want us to believe.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 21:35:50 GMT -5
This forum especially stings the ego.
I find that people here are desprete to connect themsevles to sometihng. The attempt by many to define themselves is quite apparent.
Perhaps, none of know what we "really" are. I find it interesting the amount of different perspectives that can be found here, but what I find deeply concerning it the self-limiting comments here.
Ok fine one person is a Serb, the other is an Albano, and other is a bulgar..... but each and every one of us is something more than just that. These "simple" labels exist to be-little ourselves.
Yes I am a Serb, BUT I am so much more than that. I was made in Serbia, but the world has and continues to raise me.
(sorry, i guess this poste would belong in the (ethnicity) thread.)
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 21:40:19 GMT -5
Simple labels happen every day, sort of first impressions.
Someone come in and says I am Serb and nothing else and multitudes here (due to their emotional bias) will already have created an image of this person which they will use to guide them regarding understanding such person.
As if it is a form of mass induced hypnosis.
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 21:40:46 GMT -5
Your mind is distorted... very. That's not "emotional me" talking. Thats the me that has read your absurd fixations and ludicrous ideas, from historical matters to all issues "racial". Not only fully of logical and argumentative fallacies, but riddled with personal convictions and beliefs. Ideas that verge on unhealthy (I would say perhaps as much as my own pleasure at seeing Greeks in Albania murdered). Your values and perceptions are distorted, one by your own lack of reading into what your post (instead opting for the "intellectual minimalism" that revolves on discovering and imbibing already faulty Wiki articles, which ironically on actual publications which you yourself downplay... rather circular I think), and two by your own rejection the intelligentsia (which wiki ironically relies on). You look and read online stuff to confirm your present convictions then demand that others disprove your ideas, riddled with bad logic that may appeal to those looking to believe something of the sorts.
Eitherway, your going to dismiss me here as biased and "emotional" while then going on to distort something else.
My distaste for your is not "emotional". It is the same distaste I have for people who deny the Holocaust, watch "Loose Change" or promote absurdist conspiratorial views. It is the same distaste I have to youtube historians looking to confirm their presuppositions and biases.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 21:46:01 GMT -5
I would say perhaps as much as my own pleasure at seeing Greeks in Albania murdered. That is a heightened state of emotion (border line lunacy) that you are in as soon as Greek name is mentioned and hence your emotions surface (including for me). Extreme so high that there is no way that you emotions will unable you to perceive anything but what they allow you to perceive. Not acknowledging them does not take them away. Blind can not perceive the real world.
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 21:50:28 GMT -5
I think Im far far better at managing my own biases than you are... by far. I, unlike you, don't seek to find legitimacy for my perspectives through shoddy wikipedia based knowledge and ideas. If you think that my own hatred makes it impossible for me to think straight, I would say your own are equally so. You cannot see past adulation.
The inherent difference is that you base and entire science on your presupposed view... one that relies on absurd interpretations and readings.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 21:53:53 GMT -5
Simple labels happen every day, sort of first impressions. Someone come in and says I am Serb and nothing else and multitudes here (due to their emotional bias) will already have created an image of this person which they will use to guide them regarding understanding such person. As if it is a form of mass induced hypnosis. Exactly. Everyone has some sort of pre-conceived theory about another culture, race or nationality. <- which only works against us. During the 90’s all Serbs seemed to look like butchers, when this was furthest from the truth. This is all apart of the conditioning we have all experienced through, school, friends, TV, radio, media etc….This has affected us psychologically, not necessarily emotionally.
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 12, 2011 21:54:34 GMT -5
lol, never has the question "why" been asked more often than in last three days. Can we please get back to our usual program of asking "whose grandfather did what to whose grandfather with a crescent" Also, nice call Toskali on the Sterjo Spase's novel title, that would be truly ironic. And if I may put on my philosopher dilettante hat on, as so many of us are doing these last days, I don't really understand why nihilism should come to be seen as a disease. If it expresses some fundamental truth about the world, shouldn't it then give the thinker perspective and peace with his place in the world?
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 21:57:52 GMT -5
"lol, never has the question "why" been asked more often than in last three days. Can we please get back to our usual program of asking "whose grandfather did what to whose grandfather with a crescent" - laughingriever
The past few days have been a little different here I do have to agree. Perhaps somewhat refreshing?
I think slowly certain individuals amongst us are realising theres more to "this" than what kind of "nose" this guy has, or whether "that clan" was around during "this" period, or whether "your" language is derived from "this" language....
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 21:59:04 GMT -5
If Nihilism is real than man is headed nowhere, we have no purpose, no design, no foundation... man hovers over nothing. If that is true, the foundation of human history is wrong... throughout our existence we have perceived a sense of purpose, a sort of identity. As we deconstruct that identity we are left with absolutely no values... and that terrifies people. It leaves us hopeless. I think that makes it very difficult for us to be able to exist without having something to cling to, which is what modernism has resulted in. Hence why, I think, the spiritual live healthier lives...
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2011 22:05:40 GMT -5
If Nihilism is real than man is headed nowhere, we have no purpose, no design, no foundation... man hovers over nothing. If that is true, the foundation of human history is wrong... throughout our existence we have perceived a sense of purpose, a sort of identity. As we deconstruct that identity we are left with absolutely no values... and that terrifies people. It leaves us hopeless Purpose to do what? Consume. In what real way are human being different from ants or any other life forms then by being self aware? We need to feel self important in oder to face the day cause otherwise our emotions will get a better of us. We are afraid of the dark as kids and we are afraid of it as adults just from a different angle.
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 22:07:39 GMT -5
It is individualistic liberation but it is at a cost. I feel that in our modern world we are where many post-communist countries are/were years after the revolution. The romantic world of Nietzsche, which was breaking the bonds of the old oppression with sort of joyous enthusiasm, giving name to things to "uebermensch" as the character of a man freed from all forced bonds, able to climb the symbolic mountain. We are past the "revolution" that concepts like uebermensch were a part of and have entered into the social depression caused by the collapse of an old system.
To relate it to the poem "Preface of prefaces" written by Migjeni:
A time has come When men understand one another well enough To build the Tower of Babel- And at the top of the Tower, to the highest throne Man will mount And thence cry out: God! Where are you?
We have cried out "God! Where are you?". God has not responded and now we have realized just what emptiness and silence that can bring. It has inturn caused major depression and sense of loss.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 12, 2011 22:09:29 GMT -5
The Slav-hater quotes Migjeni...priceless
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 12, 2011 22:10:17 GMT -5
It's a difficult question for sure. But if nihilism is real, then it has to encapsulate some essential truth about the world and about us. I have always thought that to arrive at such a fundamental truth, whatever the truth may be, would be liberating.
Yes, it would mean that we lose our identities and our shared past. But if those things were artificial constructs then we could get on without them. We would have an open field to renew ourselves. As far as hope, that would vanish with old gods, but something else would take its place, even if we call it non-hope or call it nothing at all.
I guess my most basic point is that a knowledge of truth would cause such a transformation of character and it would bring invulnerable peace (I suppose it's a buddhist idea I hold.)
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 22:13:35 GMT -5
Religion isnt just consumption. It has various other benefits. To use Christian practices since I don't know most others, to partake in the sacraments has numerous values. From the historical connection, to the communal, to the spiritual.
We have nothing of the such today, nothing that connects us in such a deep way. We hold nothing to be sacred and if you don't think that is terrifying, then I think you havn't look deep enough at the meaning of such things. The Communists understood religion in a terribly wrong way. It has a very special role in human life in the idea that there is something.
Im not saying it's good or bad. Personally, if I could believe in god, I would... but I can't. He is dead to me and will probably remain so forever. I cannot fool myself there and wont.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 12, 2011 22:14:34 GMT -5
Nihilism is quite real. Think of it this way.
If a house isn’t built correctly, the best thing to do is to tear it down and re-build it correctly from its foundation.
The other option is to patch everything up. And day-by day deal with the little problems that would arise. Where I live now, we call that “the china-man job” lol.
I think what needs to be considered is that “human-(his)tory” really doesn’t have anything to do with us now. We are making history as we speak.
If we deconstruct our identities, what are we left if?
My answer is humanism.
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 12, 2011 22:14:58 GMT -5
The Slav-hater quotes Migjeni...priceless And the Albanian-hater... did you run out of bunnies to boil?
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Post by toskaliku on Feb 12, 2011 22:20:14 GMT -5
Isnt that sort of a contradiction? True Nihilism?
If nothing is true than how can we be faulty.
And what is humanism? Look at WWI and WWII... That is human action. Look at the collapse of Yugoslavia... that is humanism.
Yet another aspect that has caused the current crisis of identity in man's world is the realization that our historic aspirations died with such massive human conflagrations. Our own positive perceptions have withered in the face of unspeakable human tragedy brought about by the secular ideals we so optimistically adopted.
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