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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:18:47 GMT -5
Illyrians were a primitive tribe of Hellens occupying Dalmatia and Albania...Vlachs are mainly these Hellens who during the Roman Empire took up the Latin language was their own, and specialized in shepherding
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Post by uz on Mar 12, 2011 0:20:00 GMT -5
So what do you say the Vlachs have become today?
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:22:23 GMT -5
Vlachs exist today as the Romanians and the Aromanians, spread throughout the Balkans. Many however assimilated in the middle ages into the Albanian ethnos and at a lesser degree into the Croat ethnos.
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Post by uz on Mar 12, 2011 0:23:05 GMT -5
"Bosch et al. attempted to analyze whether Vlachs are the descendents of Latinized Dacians, Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks, or a combination of the above. No hypothesis could be proven due to the high degree of underlying genetic similarity possessed by all the tested Balkan groups. The linguistic and cultural differences among various Balkan groups were thus deemed to be have not been strong enough to prevent significant gene flow among the above groups."
found this in wikipedia. Even they say we're all connected. lol
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:23:37 GMT -5
The Traditional White Albanian Plis', is actually a Vlach legacy, which in turn is a Greek one.
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:32:00 GMT -5
That's amateur academia; they're not even sure if those ancient peoples were different.
Most evidence points to them all speaking nearly intelligible forms of Greek.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Mar 12, 2011 0:33:31 GMT -5
^^ Dalmatia
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Post by uz on Mar 12, 2011 0:34:50 GMT -5
HAHAHAH !! ^
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:37:37 GMT -5
^^ Dalmatia Romanized re-structuring of traditional borders. Dalmatia was smaller and bigger at different times in history, just like Macedonia, Epirus, etc. All those peoples, Dacians, Thracians, Illyrians, Dalmatians, etc were most likely just other Greek Tribes. Just like Docleans, Bosnians, Paganians, Zahumljians, Travunians, Rascians were all Serbs.
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Post by uz on Mar 12, 2011 0:39:42 GMT -5
Then croatians might of been of greek tribe?
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:41:04 GMT -5
Then croatians might of been of greek tribe? How do you mean?
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Post by uz on Mar 12, 2011 0:44:00 GMT -5
lol, i wasn;t clear at all, my bad. Where do the croatians come in the picture?
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 0:50:59 GMT -5
The very top-right, "Sarmatians".
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Mar 12, 2011 2:29:24 GMT -5
Dalmatia was this size until a little after the Croats ruled and settled it. Modern Dalmatia is but a fraction of its true size. Disputable. I wouldn't call them exclusively Greek. Most of these peoples were heterogeneous like most other people in the world. But some how Krivo seems to think that his Serbs are a homogeneous race. Sneaky one , aren't ya? This is very disputable especially when you suggest all of them are Serbs. Apparently you have an acute sense of selective reading or you just ignore the information I have presented thus far. I guess it doesn't fit into your viewpoint. Regardless , I will agree with you on one point , no matter how you like to twist it. We are pretty much the same people belonging to the same blood carrying different names. Our ancestors were the Illyrians , more specifically the Dalmatians and being Croat/Serb is only part of our identity like part of the story , but not the whole story. ;D
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Mar 12, 2011 2:35:21 GMT -5
Then croatians might of been of greek tribe? The Dalmatian and Illyrian peoples ( Dalmatians were part of the Illyrian family) are older than when the Croats assimilated them. That's what he's talking about. I question how 'Greek' they really were but I suppose that's something I can take up with the AAdmin here. Croats came as a warrior caste , a slavicized people with a Iranic name, into the Western Balkans and their cousins , the Serbs , originally went to the eastern Balkans ( Macedonia area).
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 3:17:56 GMT -5
Dalmatia was this size until a little after the Croats ruled and settled it. Modern Dalmatia is but a fraction of its true size. A before that era Dalmatia was smaller and at certain points didn't exist. It definitely is disputable, because there just isn't enough records on those people. Just stating there's a big likelihood. I really am unsure how you even define "heterogenous", I mean obviously to you there's no difference between Croat, Illyrian, Albanian, or Vlach, it's all the same to you it seems. I don't see anything disputable about that, re-read the DAI which you possibly own. And before the Illyrians there was another people in that region, and before them another, and before them Neandrathals. So I guess we're all Neanderthals than if we accept your logic.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Mar 12, 2011 4:19:10 GMT -5
Dalmatia was this size until a little after the Croats ruled and settled it. Modern Dalmatia is but a fraction of its true size. Dalmatia maintained its geographical consistency more or less ever since it was mentioned as a geographical region. It's size changed more frequently after the establishment of Croat fiefdoms and larger territorial disputes with powers like Venice. There are similarities and differences obviously. We descend from the same Illyrians and Illyrianism is still present in our culture ( for us 'Slavs' its what distinguishes the most from other Slavs) but obviously what we call Albanian , Croatian , Serbian , etc today is also shaped by the fruition of those groups. All of them are heterogeneous in the sense that they are an amalgamation of different peoples and cultures. I did , many times, and that's why it's disputable. The DAI makes references to two different Serbias. One of them likely accurate which gives Serbs portions of Macedonia , Kosovo, and Sandzak and the other which basically retells the story of the Croats but only calls them Serbs in the next chapter. I'm totally open to the possibility of the the two really being the same people called by two different names for reasons we can only speculate about. It seems that way in some cases. The DAI only shrouds Serb origins in more mystery than it clarifies because of the contradictions. The only way the contradictions could make sense is if the author on some level thought Serb=Croat or Croat=Serb. Again though , we are talking about two ruling classes really , that being Croats and Serbs. The people of the region themselves were only assimilated by these ruling castes. Most of us have little to do, genetically , with these Central-East European Croats and Serbs and even less with the Iranic Croats and probably Serbs ( not sure really if Serbs had an Iranic origin.) The Neanderthals were another species of humans that went extinct so we cannot be their descendants.
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Post by terroreign on Mar 12, 2011 5:02:34 GMT -5
Here it's a different size...too much wishful thinking for your flawless dalmatia Here you typed some stuff, but you said nothing. They all descend from Illyrians, yet they're a amalgamation of different peoples. You just sound confused. Ok then you clearly read the part where he directly says Paganians Zahumlijans and Travunians are the descendents of Serbs who were settled there during Herakles rule. I'd like you to directly quote DAI clearly stating the same for Croats. The point remains the same; people existed there before the Illyrians and people existed before that, using your logic we're no more Illyrians than we are the people preceding the Illyrians.
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Post by uz on Mar 12, 2011 10:40:22 GMT -5
You guys are all the same to me. Serb/croat? kinda,, like the Scots and Irish.
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Post by plisbardhi on Mar 12, 2011 14:58:48 GMT -5
I love how Albophobes like Krivo and Admin think their belief about the Illyrians being Greeks is on a higher authority than actual scholars on the Illyrians.
There is nothing wrong with that logic you dope. History and anthropology are not going to bend to your purist ideas.
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