ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jun 8, 2011 1:55:49 GMT -5
ioan, can you please explain the bulgarian atrocities committed against macedonians in wwii, during the occupation of vardar macedonia. i can. atrocities were done not only in macedonia, but in the other parts of bulgaria as well. something like a civil war was taking place. the communist fobia was at its peak. brothers killing brothers unfortunately is not something that uncommon.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 8, 2011 1:58:12 GMT -5
Macedonians and Bulgarians shouldn't fight and both need to take a step back and critically think about the situation. In my honest opinion you are basically one nation divided into two states but your problems arise when something ought to be called Bulgarian and Macedonian. true dat. i totally agree. we are basically the same people, but they dont want to be called bulgarians and we dont want to be called macedonian. however, if truth is to be observed, the people were called bulgarians - this is the oldest name and thats why we insist on keeping it.
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Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
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Post by Sokol on Jun 8, 2011 1:58:50 GMT -5
ioan, can you please explain the bulgarian atrocities committed against macedonians in wwii, during the occupation of vardar macedonia. i can. atrocities were done not only in macedonia, but in the other parts of bulgaria as well. something like a civil war was taking place. the communist fobia was at its peak. brothers killing brothers unfortunately is not something that uncommon. i guess the same thing happened in pirin macedonia between macedonian factions during the interwar period
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 8, 2011 2:00:16 GMT -5
not only in pirin macedonia, in thrace, moesia - everywhere.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 8, 2011 6:38:25 GMT -5
Well, there is an older name... if you care to hear it. Besides, Macedonians belong more to the Dacian/Thracian nation than most Bulgarians in Bulgaria (apart from northern Bulgaria). That's why the Vlachs still form a decent healthy minority there, with over 20,000 still being present. So you guys need to sit down and have a talk about your identity; and then come to terms that you're Thracian. In that sense, Macedonians are almost there, since Macedonians were partially Thracian.
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Post by mystery on Jun 8, 2011 8:34:51 GMT -5
Slavodinians are bastardized Bulgarians..
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Post by rusebg on Jun 8, 2011 14:00:23 GMT -5
In the beginning I almost forgot that this comes from a representative of a nation that still has three theories alone for where Vlahs came from to their modern territory. Not to mention that this nation is completely unware what other ethnicities took part in its formation. So it is sort of funny for us to get ideas about our origin.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 8, 2011 14:50:31 GMT -5
Macedonians and Bulgarians shouldn't fight and both need to take a step back and critically think about the situation. In my honest opinion you are basically one nation divided into two states but your problems arise when something ought to be called Bulgarian and Macedonian. true dat. i totally agree. we are basically the same people, but they dont want to be called bulgarians and we dont want to be called macedonian. however, if truth is to be observed, the people were called bulgarians - this is the oldest name and thats why we insist on keeping it. Then keep your name. Both of you need to realize that Bulgarian and Macedonian are kinda like two sides of the same coin and that in this day in age either name is equally valid and should be respected by both sides. Macedonians shouldn't try to fabricate history to the point of shutting out relevant peoples and history in its past such as the Bulgarians ( and others) but you shouldn't be a pompus piece of crap (nothing personal btw ) and try to dictate to someone what they should be called and accept their own decision for their own identity. Macedonia and Macedonians are here to stay . Deal with it and move on. Zivila MKD
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 8, 2011 15:15:21 GMT -5
I agree again. I accept that today there is this new nation Macedonians. I m fine with that. I disagree with the fact that they try to hide that their fathers selfidentifyed as Bulgarians and that most of their heroes used to be Bulgarians but presently are "macedonized" by them. If they accept their bulgarian past no one in Bulgaria will dispute their Macedonian future. Its their choice.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 8, 2011 15:25:33 GMT -5
Well the way to approach them is important isn't it? You ought to understand why they might be ashamed of a prior identity. You might say propaganda , ok , but then you're sort of implying they are just stupid and can't figure things out. They percieve you as trying to act superior.
Best way to do it is make some Macedonian friends and at some point talk about it with them but always be respectful of their identity even if they are ashamed of yours. You already know the rough history behind that so try to work through it anyway. You have to understand your brothers' grief and allow yourself to empathize with their point of view. You know as well as I do that Bulgarian nationalists can come on very strong towards Macedonians ( and vice versa for sure) which sours understanding and a good relationship.
In reality both of your countries are in good standing with eachother. Macedonians regularly do business in Bulgaria and even apply for citizenship. When Macedonia enters the EU it will 'join' Bulgaria as both countries will now represent the region.
Bulgaria will be the main country welcoming Mkd in the EU and will do the most to help her get situated just like you guys were the first ones there for them in support when they declared sovereignty
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Post by Anittas on Jun 8, 2011 17:13:07 GMT -5
In the beginning I almost forgot that this comes from a representative of a nation that still has three theories alone for where Vlahs came from to their modern territory. Not to mention that this nation is completely unware what other ethnicities took part in its formation. So it is sort of funny for us to get ideas about our origin. We are very aware of all the other groups that settled on our lands and contributed to the shape of our principalities--for better or worse. As for the theories you mention, only two are worthy to consider: south of Danube or north of Danube; or a combination of both. And these theories don't differ on the Daco-Thracian origins. It's time for you to embrage us, Ruse. Vlachs had a considerable strong presence in your city, Rousse; which makes you partially Romanian, even if we disregard the Thracian presence in Bulgarians. I know your secret, Ruse. You love Romania and Romanians more than your own country. This makes you feel guilty and shameful and so you try to convert us to your cause. It won't work, Ruse. You will have to seek us... we are the original roots--older than written scripts, sources and maps. It's okay. Take babysteps. We're not going anywhere; and when you will be ready, we will embrace you as our lost brother. Your pals are welcome, too.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 8, 2011 18:28:10 GMT -5
In the beginning I almost forgot that this comes from a representative of a nation that still has three theories alone for where Vlahs came from to their modern territory. Not to mention that this nation is completely unware what other ethnicities took part in its formation. So it is sort of funny for us to get ideas about our origin. We are very aware of all the other groups that settled on our lands and contributed to the shape of our principalities--for better or worse. As for the theories you mention, only two are worthy to consider: south of Danube or north of Danube; or a combination of both. And these theories don't differ on the Daco-Thracian origins. It's time for you to embrage us, Ruse. Vlachs had a considerable strong presence in your city, Rousse; which makes you partially Romanian, even if we disregard the Thracian presence in Bulgarians. I know your secret, Ruse. You love Romania and Romanians more than your own country. This makes you feel guilty and shameful and so you try to convert us to your cause. It won't work, Ruse. You will have to seek us... we are the original roots--older than written scripts, sources and maps. It's okay. Take babysteps. We're not going anywhere; and when you will be ready, we will embrace you as our lost brother. Your pals are welcome, too. Or if not Ruse, if you're not feeling as vlah and getting a little slavic tingle in your toes, you may embrace your Slavic roots and become a Serb ;D
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Post by kijgol on Jun 8, 2011 20:50:52 GMT -5
LOL @ Macedonian minority in Bulgaria. What's next? Kosovar minority in Albania?
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Sokol
Senior Moderator
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Posts: 653
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Post by Sokol on Jun 9, 2011 23:09:55 GMT -5
LOL @ Macedonian minority in Bulgaria. What's next? Kosovar minority in Albania? no, you just remain a serbian province until russia says so
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Post by rusebg on Jun 10, 2011 14:43:22 GMT -5
Not in Ruse, my friend, sorry to disappoint you. In some areas along the Danube may be, but not in Ruse. What is more, my two kins come one from around Gabrovo and the second one from Pleven, at least from what I can trace about two centuries ago. Now you are not going to tell me there is some massive Vlah (not Romanian) presence in those areas, are you?
Somehow you got it right here. I like Romanians, despite the efforts of you and pricks like Ample of Geese to make me think otherwise. Which makes me ask myself the following: is your unexplainable hatred toward Bulgaria due to the fact that you hate what is closest to you, as it often happens?
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Post by Anittas on Jun 10, 2011 16:15:44 GMT -5
Ruse, we're both online on a Friday evening, but only one of us is bitter. Take it easy; and while you take it easy, hear my words again: you are Romanian. You love Romanians more than the Romanians that now call themselves Bulgarian.
Good night!
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Post by rusebg on Jun 10, 2011 16:19:42 GMT -5
Why 'Good Night'? You posted this masterpiece and you feel like this is enough for the week? Still, we are Slavic brothers...you the Ukrainian and me, the Bulgarian, why should I be bitter?
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Post by Anittas on Jun 10, 2011 16:27:41 GMT -5
Ruse, Ukrainians are Romanians who forgot their language; or at least that's what we tried to convince them off when we held Great Romania. Still, your words speak some truth. The few Ukranians and Russians that I met embraced me as their lost brother. I must stop here, so to not raise suspicion on the account of AofG.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 10, 2011 16:32:58 GMT -5
Those in Satu Mare or those in Baia Mare? Come on, Anittas, don't tell me you believe in what you just posted.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 10, 2011 16:44:03 GMT -5
What do you mean? You lost me.
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