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Post by coris on Jun 6, 2011 12:40:18 GMT -5
Listen you little piece of sh.it, I am leaving the above post up as a reminder that if you lie about me again in the way you just tried to, I will delete every single one of your posts in this forum. Now pi,ss Off. Really mature way to discuss something...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 12:43:06 GMT -5
Thanks for your input, next post try to stay on topic, or face moderation.
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 6, 2011 16:09:19 GMT -5
Yes I have proofs of this. We are anthropologically/racially and genetically Greeks: Finally, a more recent statistical comparison of ancient and modern Greek skulls resulted in the discovery of a remarkable similarity in craniofacial morphology between modern and ancient Greeks.
CONCLUSIONS
Modern Greeks are physically similar to ancient Greeks.dienekes.110mb.com/articles/fallmerayer/All can be found here: dienekes.110mb.com/Arvanites the 8,5% of Hellas.hellas2010.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=history&action=display&thread=13&page=1Arvanitesest. 50,000-200,000 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites#DemographicsAromanians, Scopjan-Romanians, Vlachs Armâñi, RrâmâniGreece39,855 (1951 census) - estimated up to 200.000 The number of "Slavs"(slavophones Balkanians) and of "Turks"(turk-speaking peoples) in Greece is completely insignificant as well. Greece(Ethnic groups)94% Greek,4% Albanian, 2% others en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece#cite_note-0Demographics of GreeceThe main ethnic groups were Greeks 93.76% Albanians 4.32% Bulgarians 0.39% Romanians 0.23% Ukrainians 0.18% Pakistani 0.14% Russians 0.12% Georgians 0.12% Indians 0.09% and others 0.65%. www.eurfedling.org/Greece.htmThe Greeks never "mixed" with anyone, now if you have any proof of the opposite just post it. The number of "Slavs" and of "Albanians" among the Christians from Turkey(who were already very few) was even more insignificant as well. It is. The Greeks descend from the ancient Greeks not from other peoples or other ethnicities, most of Greeks are Greeks as well.
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 6, 2011 16:19:16 GMT -5
The Byzantine Greeks referred to themselves as Romioi. Seeing themselves as a continuation and heirs of the Romans. The Byzantine Greeks were Christians and therefore they stood against the pagan ancient Hellenes, but racially they descended from them as well. They didn't descend from any Romans. The Greeks never based their new national identity using religion. A Christian was never a Greek in their eyes, see Bulgarians, Serbs, Armenians, etc. They never considered Greeks as well. Those Christian "non ethnic Greeks" as you said were not "many" but few and they are the descendants of very ancient Greeks, such as the Vlahs who descend from Dacian/Thracian Hellenes(as we the Greeks had extended back then 'till Danube region influencing racially the modern Romanians and not only) and also the Arvanites who descend from very ancient Greeks of north Epiros and had Albanized ethnically and linguistically.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 16:59:03 GMT -5
Hellenas, please don't quote Coon to me, as I have already said, he is no longer relevant to modern anthropology.
The fact that you use 2001 Census in your answer, shows you didn't understand what I said.
When the nation state of Greece was created, it was created based NOT on ethnicity but on religion.l In fact there was a very high number of Slavs and other non Turks in Anatolia during the Ottoman times, the ones who were Christian where all sent to Greece. The Greeks of course "mixed" as did every other ethnicity, as they continue to do today. This is an absurd statement. The nation of Greece was created from a mixed group of people who all happened to be Christian.
I mean the fact that you still class Turks as "Muslim" and not Turk, that even though there is a huge Turkish community they are not showing on the census means something?
How about the massive Jewish population that lived in Thessalonica?
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 6, 2011 17:38:56 GMT -5
Hellenas, please don't quote Coon to me, as I have already said, he is no longer relevant to modern anthropology. He is relevant to you, not to the scientific world. And I don't post to you but to all those who want to read the other side and not the haters of Hellenism=the Turks. I understand what you say very well, don't worry about it. Nonsense. Prove it and send numbers of peoples. If you have any... You are an anti-Greek liar, prove what you say or don't speak at all. The Greeks descend from the ancient Greeks as I said and as I proved to you. They are not Turks in Thrace, just moslem Greeks as well. Enough with your Turkish propaganda, you will gain nothing from Greece. That's laughable..."massive" you said? Lol, that's the anti-Greek Turkish propaganda you use, now we descend from the minority of Jews of Greek Macedonia and especially of her capital Thessaloniki??? Let's declare all together...according to the Turks besides that the Greeks are Albanians, Vlahs, Slavs and Turks they also are Jews. Bravo, bravo that's very nice. PS When I said for first time that the Turks belong to those enemies of Greece who say that "the Greeks are not Greeks" you got angry and you said to me that I am in "ignorance" and that "only one Turk said something like that"(Prof. Fikret Adanır) and that "not all Turks believe something like that". Now I see that you went to his side and you support his claims, really, how this happened Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning, I really wonder?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 17:54:51 GMT -5
Why would I hate Hellenism? He is also irrelevant in the world of modern anthropology, we have already discussed this.
I am not your personal librarian go and look up Ottoman census figures. Its very easy to access.
You sound like a fanatical little old granny. Why the heck should I be anti-Greek? Not everyone is a fanatical extremist like you are. You didn't prove anything.
It seems you know less about your own country, than I do.
Thats correct.
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 6, 2011 18:05:37 GMT -5
The only correct is not that the Greeks descend from the minority of Jews of Greek Macedonia(Thessaloniki) but that you spread your own anti-Greek thoughts and nonsence over here Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning and that I proved the opposite of what you claim, you don't deserve any longer answer anyway.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 18:25:22 GMT -5
I really wonder what I posted that was Anti-Greek? I guess it must be hard living in that paranoid mind of yours...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 18:47:16 GMT -5
I see you edited your post to say
What I said is not what you understood, I think that perhaps the language barrier is stopping you from understanding what I am saying. The added stereotypes towards all Turks and the racism that is rotting your mind has led you to a totally incorrect conclusion.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 6, 2011 19:03:21 GMT -5
What about the Greeks that remained in Asia for centuries to come: did they mix? What about the Greek princesses that married Ottoman sultans and produced new heirs: does that count? Or the tens of thousands--if not hundred of thousands--of Slavs that settled around the Balkans and in northern Greece: did you mix with them? Or the tens of thousands of foreign non-Greek slaves that lived on your lands and who were eventually assimilated and liberated from slavery with the introduction of Christianity: did you mix with them?
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Post by Anittas on Jun 6, 2011 19:03:36 GMT -5
Hellboy, stop stalking Desire, dude. What you're doing is not harmless trolling, but stalking.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 19:08:48 GMT -5
For that honest observation, you have been exhalted. lol
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 6, 2011 20:17:06 GMT -5
massive Jewish population of Salonica? Sure! They were a majority over there ONLY.
Again,the largest wave of immigrants were was the Anatolian Greeks,followed by the Sephardi Jews centuries earlier.Most Grecian Greeks are still indigenous.
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 7, 2011 1:29:17 GMT -5
Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning keep insulting and speaking to your self...
Just one thing...who is fanatic and paranoid???
When you, the most fanatical and anti-human people in the whole world, have performed such genocides as the one of the Greeks of Asia Minor(Ionia), of the Greeks of the Black Sea(Pontos) region, of the Armenians and of the Kurds...the only fanatics and paranoids around here is you, the Turks, not me, neither the Greeks as well.
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 7, 2011 1:45:02 GMT -5
What about the Greeks that remained in Asia for centuries to come: did they mix? What about the Greek princesses that married Ottoman sultans and produced new heirs: does that count? Or the tens of thousands--if not hundred of thousands--of Slavs that settled around the Balkans and in northern Greece: did you mix with them? Or the tens of thousands of foreign non-Greek slaves that lived on your lands and who were eventually assimilated and liberated from slavery with the introduction of Christianity: did you mix with them? Nonsense and anti-Greek bulgrarian propaganda, open a book of history and a book of Anthropology you illiterate bulgo. Such mix between any Greek group and Anatolians never happened, at least in big scale, such mix was completely insignificant so to change the racial type of the Asia Minor Greeks. Greek Mediterraneans and Anatolian Mediterraneans are very close racially so there is not any racial mix when you mix two, almost, similar things, besides the fact that most western Anatolians are in fact Turkified Greeks and Turkified Byzantine Greeks. Greeks descending from Slavs? We have nothing to do with Slavs(Neo-Danubians and Baltics do not even exist in Greece, the number of North Pondic Mediterraneans is very small in Greece and they can be found even in western Crete, descending from the ancient Greeks. The "Slavs" in Greece were Slav-speaking Balkanians not Russians or Ukranians.) and non-Greek slaves?...Bulgo fairy tales as well...I have already answer this one. See my post The slaves in ancient Hellas.illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hellasgreece&action=display&thread=33377&page=2
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 7, 2011 5:34:37 GMT -5
Why should I be paranoid? or fanatic? I am neither, I do not try to prove anything. You are trying to prove your direct connection to the ancient Greeks, which really isn't very reasonable. I do not think all Greeks hate me, in fact I know they don't. Thank god for the "real world". No wonder there are so many uprising in Greece... it's certainly not against the Turks.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 7, 2011 8:12:52 GMT -5
The Pontic Greeks are more Asian than European. I talked to one several years back and he admitted he was mixed. No shame in that. Just look at Bactria. What were those Hellenes supposed to do? They were stuck in Asia and remained there for a millennia to come.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 7, 2011 8:49:30 GMT -5
Well I recently found out I had Greeks in my family, and they were from Istanbul and Antalya, they emigrated to Cyprus in the 1500's. Therefore as a FACT I know that Greeks did mix. In fact I have met LOTS of Turks that have mixed Greek and Turk, Pomak and Turk, Albanian and Turk background. These are the ones that stayed Muslim. On the other hand there are certainly Greeks and Albanians that were Christian along with Bulgarian and Greek, Serb and Greek, even Gagauz Turk and Greek, that were sent to Greece when it was being created.
Why didn't the Muslim Greeks go to Greece? they were speaking fluent Greek and were ethnically Greek? The reason is because, the nation state of Greece was created with the mindset that it would be a "Christian" country only.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 7, 2011 8:51:58 GMT -5
Also the Greeks in Anatolia were better off than those living in Greece, especially those in Izmir/Smyrna at the time. I am sure many stayed in Turkey pretending to be Muslim. Even if we look at Aydin for example, the people there are probably more connected to the ancient Greeks than Hellenas LOL.
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