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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 12, 2011 3:59:57 GMT -5
www.ambassador-serbia.com/I guess it's no surprise that so many foreigners want to defend Serbdom since so few Serbs are willing to do it. My view on it is difficult to summarize. It makes me uneasy. I guess I'm just not used to having people, especially foreigners, defend Serbdom. It feels unreal. I really hate sincerity. I'm used to dealing with people with agendas and ulterior motives. I hate it when not everybody lies. It makes it so much harder finding out the truth.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 12, 2011 5:23:42 GMT -5
The whole campaign against Serbia was a big fiasco, a huge mistake of mythical proportions that everybody wants to forget, but is is hard to erase without being totally unreliable, so many excuses come up : communism is gone, tyrant milosevic is dead, now that Mladic is captured it is great and safe for kids as well, and other such crap.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 12, 2011 5:45:15 GMT -5
The only thing bad about Serbia and RS (in terms of living) are the wages. I think more expats should go back there and setup businesses centred around goods. Not services because you're not going to be making any money. But definitely goods. Serbia should have an export based economy and Serb expats should see the potential there. I think I'll save up some money too. See if I can open up a business there.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 13, 2011 0:37:20 GMT -5
The only thing bad about Serbia and RS (in terms of living) are the wages. I think more expats should go back there and setup businesses centred around goods. Not services because you're not going to be making any money. But definitely goods. Serbia should have an export based economy and Serb expats should see the potential there. I think I'll save up some money too. See if I can open up a business there. You forget that the main weapons of destroying Yugoslavia was the blockage of exports? Also you forget that Serbia is UNABLE to export *anywhere* due to 1) bad tagging : "made in Serbia" equals "made in hell" 2) most importantly EU-USA tax policy. Serbia simply cannot export anywhere but to only Russia. This army export deal was arranged by USA, and this is how it works. But Serbia cannot autonomously make any deals with anyone. The industrial/agricultural sector is suffocated because of this. I remember, once there was two scandals here in Greece, about some sugar being imported from bad Serbia, and another one, by some sunflower oil imported from Ukraine. When the average Greek modern idiot hears "Serbia" she (because those b1tches are not males even if they have a pennis) will start to cry out "Ceca - Ceca - arkan - murder - mafia - crime). PS If ever things change for Slavs and Serbs, i will personally open up a concentration "educational" center here in Greece.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 13, 2011 0:38:28 GMT -5
^ I agree. Serbia needs industry. The only way countries like Germany and Italy are able to progree is through labour force and industry. The "MASTERS" of Europe are extremely limited in ressources. Over %80 of Italy's energy is imported, Germany has no major exports other than machinery, auto-mechanics, and steele. The Balkan region especially the Former-Yug region is COMPLETLY capable of relying on itself. Serbia alone is capable of being self-reliant, if debt weren't the case. The EU nations needs countries in the Balkans to join their union so they can milk it. Serbia, as well as the other Balkan nations need to stop investing in western coperations/brands/companies, and start to invest in their own people. There is huge potential where we are located geographically, and they knows this which is why they want to disrupt it. Man, with all respect, i cannot understand how you manage to be so naive. (i repeat with *all* respect and no dose of irony at all) In whole Bosnia, the markets are stuffed with products labeled "proud Croatian product" or some other nonsense like that. The products from Serbia are by far less than the ... "proud" Croatian products, and the products from Bosnian itself are even fewer than that. Now do you really think that Bosnians are more lazy than Serbians and that Serbians are more lazy than Croatians? No, hell no!!! It is just that the Bosnian economy is heavily held down by an enforced political system designed to fail, and Serbian economy is held down by artificial measures (e.g. in Brcko (50km from Bijeljina) in most banks you cannot exchange Dinars. The winners of the war regulated the markets according to their plan. That was the aim. That was the deal, and this is the implementation. Do you think that a truly *free* Serbian economy would allow for "moja kravica" reaching 100 RSD? Serbian economy, cut off from any exporting potential, is artificially held down by appointing micro-mafiozos who regulate the prices to maximize their profits by milking the Serbian people. In a system/governement controlled 100% by the west. Do you want my views on it? If the governement intervened and tried to hold the prices of basic products down, then new bombings would come. In Nish, southern Serbia, citizens with no access to villages or villagers are effectively "sentenced" to starve. The prices of the local diary products (Niska Mlekara) only go up. In a region where milk farmers sell their milk at about 20-25 cents/littre max, the price to the consumer ends up to 80 din. When in Germany (remember what we said about USA regulating markets?) milk leaves the producer at 0.30 euro and reaches the consumer at .5 euro....
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Post by terroreign on Jun 13, 2011 1:08:37 GMT -5
i to be honest do not think some people on here should be speaking on behalf of serbs or Serbdom at all until they start living like one. which means listening/playing Gusle and reading Gorski Vijenac, these are core pillars of Serbdom and if you don't hold enough respect for it to take time for these things you don't deserve the privilege of including yourself in Serbdom.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 13, 2011 1:13:16 GMT -5
i to be honest do not think some people on here should be speaking on behalf of serbs or Serbdom at all until they start living like one. which means listening/playing Gusle and reading Gorski Vijenac, these are core pillars of Serbdom and if you don't hold enough respect for it to take time for these things you don't deserve the privilege of including yourself in Serbdom. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one, TerroReign.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 13, 2011 1:15:30 GMT -5
what makes you think that is a joke?
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 13, 2011 1:41:52 GMT -5
what makes you think that is a joke? >_>
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 13, 2011 7:45:59 GMT -5
Croatian products also flood the shelves in Serbia and the Republika Srpska portion of BiH. Though its not completely imported. Croatian companies have production plants in these countries as well offering jobs to not just Croats. Serbia is actually better to do business in than either Croatia or Bosnia for Croatian companies because both Croatia and Bosnia have ridiculous tax and tariff models. In a sense Serbia has a more free economy.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 13, 2011 7:52:23 GMT -5
^^^ Did i make an exception for RS? NO! Now about Serbia you are right, but the percentage of Croatian products is lower. Now since you showed in the thread, i would like to ask you, why ARE THERE NO SERBIAN products in the "proud" Croatian markets?
Take your time.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 13, 2011 8:12:55 GMT -5
There are Serbian products in Croatia but the ratio of them compared to other imported products is about the same as anywhere else meaning there is less of a % of Serbian compared to Croatian products even here in the U.S.
And relax a lot of these products are moved throughout Croatia and the rest of the region through Serbian trucking companies.
There is no conspiracy against Serb products at any rate. Italian, German , Bosnian , Slovenian , and other products have the same tariffs. Additionally, you can't fault consumers for what they want and don't want to buy.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 14, 2011 2:00:19 GMT -5
Additionally, you can't fault consumers for what they want and don't want to buy. Sure!!! And tagging some nation as the representatives of SATAN as the BUTCHERS, etc... has little impact on the value of their products. I will not commend on the rest of your BS, it is apparent that you do not know what you are talking about. In Greece you can find loads of Bulgarian products, some Croatian products and of course no Serbian products. It is not about taxes, it simply of what is allowed and what is not. Please, stop being ridiculous. Thanks. Otherwise, i will reiterate the history of the Croatian industry and the comparative history of Serbian industry and you will feel embarrassed once again.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 14, 2011 3:26:33 GMT -5
Croatian products flood the market because humans are creatures of familiarity. A good deal of industry was in Zagreb before Yugoslavia fell apart.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 14, 2011 3:37:52 GMT -5
Of course, why buy vegeta when we have ZacinC? why buy argeta when we have Carnex? Hell even eurokrem from Vranje is better than anything Podravka has put out.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 14, 2011 9:05:20 GMT -5
Two things. Serbian actions in the war speak for themselves. Not all Croats so easily forget. But more importantly, there is no smearing of Serbian products in Croatia and they are sold there. So you're telling me that Greece and Bulgaria 'also label' Serbs and Serbian products as the devil and butchers? You have yet to convince me of a global or regional conspiracy against Serbian products but I know you will try. ;D Who cares? What is the point? You seem to think this is a contest. A lot of Serbs actually, for some reason , always feel the need to be in competition with us. We have a better export economy and for some reason it bothers you guys and you have to cry fowl and evil Croat/Western conspiracy. It's so ridiculous especially since Serbs consume products made in Croatia all the time. Fix your own problems and stop blaming others for them. Good for you. Like I said , buy and consume whatever you want. If you want to boycott Croatian just because its Croatian and not Serbian be my guest . It's your money , spend it the way you want.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 14, 2011 9:22:17 GMT -5
Two things. Serbian actions in the war speak for themselves. Not all Croats so easily forget. But more importantly, there is no smearing of Serbian products in Croatia and they are sold there. So you're telling me that Greece and Bulgaria 'also label' Serbs and Serbian products as the devil and butchers? You have yet to convince me of*global or regional conspiracy against Serbian products but I know you will try. ;D Croats in Serbia lived a happy life when you were butchering 500,000 of Serbs out of Krajna, so sell your BS elsewhere. (proud BS made in Croatia LOL!!!) So? Croats do not forget? I think you should pray that Serbs forget.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 14, 2011 9:35:07 GMT -5
Serbs let you get away with Jasenovac, and you have the nerve to talk about .... Croats do not easily forget???
Are you for real?
How can you do this? I mean it is not natural to being able to act such a total hypocrite. You must possess some gift by birth.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 14, 2011 9:54:08 GMT -5
Two things , again. First, Croats , perhaps up to 100,000 realistically in Vojvodina, did not rebel against the Serbian government and did not use military force to push their agenda. Nor did Croatia arm or support Croats in Serbia. There was a Croat expulsion from Vojvodina , mostly led by Seselj's thugs. Look up what happened in Hrtkovci. Secondly, 500,000 Serbs were not expelled from 'Krajina', about 180,000 fled by order of their own commanders fearing reprocusion from the Croatian Army and government. Around 200,000 Serbs still remain in Croatia to this day and they have reserved seats in the Croatian parliment (Sabor) which means they allowed to bypass the democratic process.
Nobody forgets and rarely forgives. That's the problem. Older generations plant the seeds of hate in newer generations. Both sides are guilty of their prejudices. But this is not the reason the Serbian export economy isn't as good as Croatia's. That is my point.
Again , same old shit. Serbs cry Jasenovac , Croats cry Bleiburg. Its this self-victimization that's most prevailent among the Jews but seems like Serbs and Croats picked it up as well although I would say its more extreme on the Serb side. It's so ridiculous to assume there was a seemless thread from WW2 leading into the 90s war. Different circumstances.
I would be a hypocrit if I condemned morally the other side of doing the same things I praise my side for doing. I don't do that. I don't pretend that all Croats were angels and that all Croatian political decisions were morally correct.
I'm just telling you how it is. Yes there are quite a bit of Croatians that still hold resentment towards Serbs , especially in Eastern Slavonia and a lot of Dalmatia. Its for the same reason Serbs from Croatia would hold resentment for all Croats but some BOSNIAN SERBS see us as natural allies or at least useful neighbors. Conversley Croats and Istra and northern Croatia aren't as hardlined toward the Serbs since they were not in direct conflict with them just like Serbians from Serbia don't outright hate most Croats ( as uz or ulf pointed out.)
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 14, 2011 9:58:04 GMT -5
When the average Greek modern idiot hears "Serbia" she (because those b1tches are not males even if they have a pennis) will start to cry out "Ceca - Ceca - arkan - murder - mafia - crime). Thats not the case, i'm pretty sure. Who even know Arkan...I only now Arkas : I'm trying to figure out why all these bs come out of your peiragmeno mind.
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