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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 1, 2011 21:28:49 GMT -5
so if a muslim albanian married a christian albanian, where would they get married> in church? what would the kids be? muslim, christian? is this a common occurence amongst albanians, or do muslims usually marry muslims, and christians marry christians?? In Albania proper it is common. Not sure about where they would get married. But who cares. I don't have much respect for imams or priests. Except for some of our patriotic priests of the past. But leaving marriage aside, there is still a comraderie between the different religious groups. It might have been like that between some slavs in Yugoslavia but it was short lived. It seemed as if it was artificial. With us its natural.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 1, 2011 22:17:41 GMT -5
so if a muslim albanian married a christian albanian, where would they get married> in church? what would the kids be? muslim, christian? is this a common occurence amongst albanians, or do muslims usually marry muslims, and christians marry christians?? In Albania proper it is common. Not sure about where they would get married. But who cares. I don't have much respect for imams or priests. Except for some of our patriotic priests of the past. But leaving marriage aside, there is still a comraderie between the different religious groups. It might have been like that between some slavs in Yugoslavia but it was short lived. It seemed as if it was artificial. With us its natural. With Macedonians it's not really an issue. Torbeshi are too few in number for it to be an issue. With the Serbs/Croats/Bosnjaks however it is an issue. The reason is that it is primarily religion that divides them. They all speak the same language, so religion is the defining factor in their ethnicity. Muslims are Bosnjaks, Catholics are Croats and Orthodox are Serbs. It seems to me that Albanians are not that into religion, apart from a few who are influenced from outside. I have heard that the evangalists and other sects have made great strides into Albania because of this. Their success in other parts of the Balkans is not that great, because of our affinity to religion. We withstood 500+ years of Ottoman rule and remain as Christians to this day!
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 1, 2011 23:39:01 GMT -5
^Albanians not being religious is the main reason most converted during Ottoman Empire. Regardless of religion, Albanians already had their laws and moral codes to follow with kanun i Lekë Dukagjinit. Most Albanians held this book in higher regard than the bible or kuran.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 2, 2011 0:23:54 GMT -5
^Albanians not being religious is the main reason most converted during Ottoman Empire. Regardless of religion, Albanians already had their laws and moral codes to follow with kanun i Lekë Dukagjinit. Most Albanians held this book in higher regard than the bible or kuran. interesting, so i wonder if this attitude means that the new empire (crumbling) [USA] will be successfull in exporting it's various sects across albania.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 0:31:23 GMT -5
There will be a minimal affect. Its usually the poor who are targed, people want to eat. And let me correct you by saying the US government has nothing to do with it. Its just random Jesus freaks who feel they are doing a good thing. They just want everyone to be "saved" and go to heaven.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 2, 2011 0:36:49 GMT -5
There will be a minimal affect. Its usually the poor who are targed, people want to eat. And let me correct you by saying the US government has nothing to do with it. Its just random Jesus freaks who feel they are doing a good thing. They just want everyone to be "saved" and go to heaven. neverless their work seems to be booming in albania and kosovo. just google it and you'll see many opportunities for missionary work in albania. not the us govt? i doubt it. maybe not the democrats, but the sect nutters in the republican party and the huge influence of the evangelicals on this party means the u.s govt is influenced by them. just look at some of the policies in the us regarding abortion, right to life, nudity etc etc. these are driven by these nutters. it is no co-incidence that wherever the us army goes, so do these nuttbags.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 0:53:55 GMT -5
The republican politicians are fake christians. They don't believe half the shit they say. Its all about votes, and who better to cater to than the undereducated hicks of the US. There are an awful lot of them. So I don't agree with your post.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 0:57:12 GMT -5
I just don't think the US government cares about the religion of the Albanians. If that were the case they wouldn't have intervened in the war in the first place.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 2, 2011 1:06:03 GMT -5
I just don't think the US government cares about the religion of the Albanians. If that were the case they wouldn't have intervened in the war in the first place. i agree somewhat. the religion of the u.s is $$$, but the sects seem to follow their army wherever they go. the us practices the 'divide and conquer' tactic like any empire does. sadly for you, this seems to be coming to an end. not sure where the albanians will stand without their major sponsor.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 1:33:11 GMT -5
^I believe its in your interest to have a strong US as well. You seen the new embassy in Shkup? If the US falls your artificial country may be chopped into pieces.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 1:35:51 GMT -5
I need to quit getting caught up in some of your guys' dreams. The US ain't going anywhere in our lifetimes. As long as their military is top dog, they will run shit.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 2, 2011 1:36:50 GMT -5
^I believe its in your interest to have a strong US as well. You seen the new embassy in Shkup? If the US falls your artificial country may be chopped into pieces. you're probably right. we'd either return to serbian rule, or bulgarian rule. we would however survive as a people. the same cannot be said for you guys. their would be far less albanians around if the russians took over.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 1:46:10 GMT -5
So you admit you would change identities to survive. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We've been around for quite a while, surrounded by enemies. We are here to stay.
PS. What will your children be? Serbian, Bulgarian or in limbo? Hahaha
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 2, 2011 1:51:31 GMT -5
So you admit you would change identities to survive. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We've been around for quite a while, surrounded by enemies. We are here to stay. PS. What will your children be? Serbian, Bulgarian or in limbo? Hahaha there are much less of us than you, and we have been occupied by our neighbours many times over. all i am saying is that the hatred towards albanians by neighbouring peoples is far greater that hatred towards macedonians. bulgars and serbs would occupy us, but not kill us. you on the other hand are a different story. my grandfather served in the bulgarian army and the partizan army in wwii, and in both armies they took delight in killing shiptars. you are kiddng yourself if you think bulgars are your friends. you have no friends in the balkans, and that is dangerous for you. also, on the point of assimiliation, didn't this thread start off by outlining the assimilation of orthodox albanians in macedonia??
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 2:06:34 GMT -5
Yeah but it is a miniscule number compared to what would go down with your subgroup of people.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Aug 2, 2011 2:17:23 GMT -5
Just take note from ljubco georgievski and awaken yourselves to who you really are. Why wait for an occupation?
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Aug 2, 2011 9:11:49 GMT -5
Shqipni , I don't think you have an arguing point. NATO supports the existence of both R.Kosovo and R.Macedonia so I'm saying if you support NATO policy in this region then you have to leave Macedonia alone.
And IMO Albanians , Serbs , and Macedonians are the most volitile people of the Balkans. Especially Serbs and Albanians , hardly any neighbor likes them or are extremely skeptical of them and they even hate eachother. Macedonia happens to be the country that all her neighbors want to claim as sort of a 'holy land.' No wonder this part of the Balkans is so shoddy and pathetic.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Aug 2, 2011 9:21:21 GMT -5
And expanding on my point , its no wonder that Croats and Slovenes want to distance themselves from 'Balkan.' In a way its two different worlds. I didn't understand this until I went down south ( visited Macedonia , Bulgaria , and some of Greece). Aside from a few places that are touched up nicely for tourists , these are very ugly places ( but have the potential to be nice at least). I really felt like I was in some Mexican villages when I got out of the vicinity of Sofia and even Sofia was very morbid. Macedonia had untended fields ( like half a crop harvest) , terrible roads , beggars everywhere , and I felt the overall mood was depressing.
That's when I thought of WHY we don't like to be associated with the Balkans because THIS IS the Balkans. It's different when you cross the border into Croatia for example. From the opinion of a Macedonian truck driver I think he said it best to paraphrase : " When you go into Croatia , the roads are paved , everyone's grass is cut , cars are modern, you feel like you just exited the Balkans and entered Europe."
This doesn't mean that anyone is better than anyone else. The places that have been under Turkish dominance for 500 years severely lagged in development and are suffering those consequences now. I'm only showing that the Balkans are not uniform.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Aug 2, 2011 9:42:23 GMT -5
Chentovist, don't be going around spinning some BS tales trying to create animosity where there is no need for animosity.
On this forum, it seems that's all people try to do. I've seen Serbs post under Bulgarian user names in attempts to stir s**t up, and more recently, we've even had a Romanian posting under a Bulgarian user name trying to instigate problems where there really are none.
With regards to Bulgarians and Albanians being friends, I would say that our relations are neutral. But Bulgarians themselves are split on the Kosovo decision, some think that recognizing it was a good decision and some think it was a bad decision.. most are probably indifferent. However, our decision to recognize it stands.
Anyway, you yourself identify as a Macedonian.. so do try to avoid speaking on behalf of Bulgarians.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Aug 2, 2011 10:26:16 GMT -5
Prisojanin, you're right about the Balkans. We're the "outcasts" of Europe, we're the ones who no one wants to be. But here I'm reminded of the good 'ol Norther American saying, "it might be shit, but it's my shit" and I love it.
I find that it is easy to love something that is "at the top", but not so much when it's "at the bottom".. ironically enough, that's when it's most needed.
I know people from the Balkans, some are Bulgarians, who do everything possible to disassociate themselves from the Balkans. Here some of them define themselves as 'Europeans' only. Many purposefully distance themselves from the reality of their true origin, but in my opinion these people are feeble minded and weak at heart.
With regards to Bulgaria, realistically, if Britain and France didn't step in to dismember the rightfully Bulgarian borders of San Stefano Bulgaria we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
With San Stefano Bulgaria in place, we would have avoided the Balkan Wars, we would have most likely remained neutral in both World Wars, and would have possibly avoided communism. Our focus would have been on evolving our country rather than trying to piece it back together. Either way, the reality of the situation would have been different.
The Balkans, in my opinion, are the way they are today because the West wanted them to be that way. They put a lot of effort and resources into destabilizing the region over the past 100 years.
It's ironic how first they come and "destroy" prospects of progress and development and now they're back with a promises of rebuilding and improving the region.. ie. the EU.
And what's even worse is that Bulgaria today is probably less independent than it was during Ottoman rule.
Yet again, we're enslaved and have others doing our bidding on our behalf.. unfortunate.
None the less, I remain a proud Balkanian and an even prouder Bulgarian.
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