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Post by Anittas on Jul 21, 2011 14:50:56 GMT -5
No, I'm not referring to myself but rather to Constantine II of Bulgaria who valiantly resisted the Ottomans. That can be explained by the fact that he was half Romanian (Wallachian). His mother was Anna, daughter of Nicolae Alexandru of Wallachia.
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Post by uz on Jul 21, 2011 17:27:38 GMT -5
hahaha..
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Jul 22, 2011 9:57:04 GMT -5
Anittas, the fact that there were Vlach subjects in the Second Bulgarian Empire and the fact that some citizens may have been of mixed origin doesn't make the Bulgarian Empire a "Romanian" Empire. Furthermore, much like the East Roman Empire, the Bulgarian Empires were both multi-ethnic entities. Those who fought and died for the Bulgarian cause were Bulgarians simple as that; the whole Asen dynasty claimed ethnic descent from the rulers of the First Bulgarian Empire.
Moreover, the present day country of Romania has no claim to any sort of Empire. The name Romania, or rather Rumania, to refer to Wallachia, Moldova, and Transylvania only came about in the 1800's. Wallachia itself only became a political entity (ie. a principality) in the very late 1200's to early 1300's.
In the Balkans during the middle ages there have only been four empires; the East Roman Empire(ie. Byzantium), the two Bulgarian Empires, and the Serbian Empire.
Just so you know..
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Post by Anittas on Jul 22, 2011 11:17:18 GMT -5
Anittas, the fact that there were Vlach subjects in the Second Bulgarian Empire and the fact that some citizens may have been of mixed origin doesn't make the Bulgarian Empire a "Romanian" Empire. Furthermore, much like the East Roman Empire, the Bulgarian Empires were both multi-ethnic entities. Those who fought and died for the Bulgarian cause were Bulgarians simple as that; the whole Asen dynasty claimed ethnic descent from the rulers of the First Bulgarian Empire. Moreover, the present day country of Romania has no claim to any sort of Empire. The name Romania, or rather Rumania, to refer to Wallachia, Moldova, and Transylvania only came about in the 1800's. Wallachia itself only became a political entity (ie. a principality) in the very late 1200's to early 1300's. In the Balkans during the middle ages there have only been four empires; the East Roman Empire(ie. Byzantium), the two Bulgarian Empires, and the Serbian Empire. Just so you know.. No one mentioned a Romanian Empire, but you are wrong on several accounts. 1. Ana was the daughter of Nicolae Alexandru, Prince of Wallachia. She gave birth to Constantine II. We were not your subjects at this time. In fact, it was Constantine that had Prince Mircea of Wallachia as his tutor; and later, Mircea would lay claim to Vidin and other localities in northern Bulgaria. 2. Romania does have a claim to an empire: namely the Eastern Roman Empire and the Romanian- Bulgarian Empire. There are two arguments for this: our early Princes who ruled Wallachia and Moldavia saw the two principalities as extentions to the Byzantine Empire. When it comes to dynasty claims, Stephen the Great of Moldavia married Maria de Mangop--the last Greek princess of an independent Byzantine principality who had direct bloodlinks with the Asan dinasty, the Russian tzars and so on. To put it short, we can claim half of the world, but we're not greedy. We'll just take what's south of us. 3. Romania (Rumania) is not an ancient name for our country, but Land of Romanians (Tara Romaneasca) is. As you can see--and as it has been told to you numerous times--it is just a matter of variation usage. P.S. Don't forget that your last Emperor was half Romanian via royal marriage... thx!
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ivo
Amicus
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Post by ivo on Jul 22, 2011 16:31:08 GMT -5
Anittas, learn to walk before you run. Anyway, regarding the bullshit that you've written.. actually there's not much to say, it's mostly disillusionment.
But then again, I wouldn't expect a "proper" assessment from a person who prides himself in the fact that his people were nothing more but common Roman slaves.
We've had a period of that as well, but to us it is seen as the equivalent of Ottoman rule. ie. nothing to be proud of.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Jul 22, 2011 17:08:37 GMT -5
His people were the masters, the slaves were... well, the slaves were the Slavs (at least in the last centuries of the Roman empire and later), hence the name.
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Post by uz on Jul 22, 2011 17:27:45 GMT -5
The "Slavic" name is older; Slovìne which means nothing remotely simmiliar to slave. The English word Slav is derived from the Middle English word sclave, which was borrowed from Medieval Latin sclavus "slave,"[10] itself a borrowing and Byzantine Greek σκλάβος sklábos "slave," which was in turn apparently derived from a misunderstanding of the Slavic autonym (denoting a speaker of their own languages). The Byzantine term Sklavinoi was loaned into Arabic as Saqaliba by medieval Arab historiographersNow this ^ is interesting, the Squalib are actually noted for being a Serb tribe. So perhaps Slav or Slavic came from the term Serb (Krivos-input-needed). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
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Post by Anittas on Jul 22, 2011 20:17:16 GMT -5
The Roman Empire considered at one time to change its name to the Dacian Empire. Nothing to be ashamed off. The Ottomans used the Bulgarians for crap work. All minorities in the Ottoman Empire had a status, except for the Bulgarians.
The Greeks were diplomats, merchants, architects, governors in Christian lands.
The Armenians were merchants.
The Albanians were generals and governors.
The Bulgarian were morons. You produced nothing. Nada. Your last Emperor was half Romanian. This is nothing to question. The Asans gave you the real Emperors--who were of Romanian origin--and the Wallachian royal house gave you the last Emperor. Say thank you.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Jul 22, 2011 21:04:10 GMT -5
The Slavs were synonymous to slaves for early medieval people. Not only to be captured, bought and sold like cattle but they were used as cannon fodder by Turkic tribes such as Avars and Bulgars or Germanics like the Rus. Also it's interesting that the old Roman word for slave was servus (replaced in the Middle Age by sclavus). Doesn't the word servus sound very close to a certain ethnonym?
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Post by uz on Jul 22, 2011 21:14:51 GMT -5
Early medieval? lol
I am talking pre-medieval. Obviously they will translate the term to whatever sounds closest to Latin, hellooooo.
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Post by Anittas on Jul 22, 2011 23:32:34 GMT -5
Helped us breath? I think this region was doing just fine before all this trash came in; and in some instances, was invited.
Yeah, I suppose I forgot to mention the Serbs. You assisted the Turks in their victory at the Battle of Nicopolis. Thanks for letting us breath... it's just that we can't breath so well under water. So maybe you should shut your fvcking mouth and stop calling others for names. I mean, it's not like you're Croatian. They can brag about having some superiority. It's because they're tall and good-looking.
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Jul 23, 2011 0:53:52 GMT -5
It's true that we bore quite the burden, our land was where the Ottomans were most concentrated. They used and abused the land for centuries, treating it as a "loaner" type rally point. So the people residing in the lands of present day Bulgaria, Macedonia, and Northern Greece (ie. Southern Thrace) got the shortest end of the stick possible.
My people have gone through hardship, we've lived in misery for centuries, we were put through the grinder and still we were not broken. On the other hand, the Ottoman Empire for your people was a walk in the park, having the Romanian principalities more or less autonomous throughout the entire time.
We struggled for survival we fought for freedom, given the circumstances that in itself was achievement enough.
And what did you do with your time?
'Cuz the way I see it, Romania today is no better than Bulgaria.. but at least I can look back at a past filled with brave heroes who fought valiantly and died with honor for what they believed in.
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Post by Anittas on Jul 23, 2011 6:47:51 GMT -5
It's true that we bore quite the burden, our land was where the Ottomans were most concentrated. They used and abused the land for centuries, treating it as a "loaner" type rally point. So the people residing in the lands of present day Bulgaria, Macedonia, and Northern Greece (ie. Southern Thrace) got the shortest end of the stick possible. My people have gone through hardship, we've lived in misery for centuries, we were put through the grinder and still we were not broken. On the other hand, the Ottoman Empire for your people was a walk in the park, having the Romanian principalities more or less autonomous throughout the entire time. We struggled for survival we fought for freedom, given the circumstances that in itself was achievement enough. And what did you do with your time? 'Cuz the way I see it, Romania today is no better than Bulgaria.. but at least I can look back at a past filled with brave heroes who fought valiantly and died with honor for what they believed in. You shameless pig! The Ottomans tried to subdue us several times and we had to fight and earn our vassalage, not to say about our freedom. Entire villages were burned and people slaughtered by their allies, the Crimea Tatars from the north; and the Ottomans from the south. We resisted the Ottomans for 500 years. We fought them and many of our princes sacrificed their well being and their lives to fight them. As Catcher once mentioned, the population of Wallachia decreased from 500,000 to about 200,000. I can't believe you put into question our suffering, for it is the worst. We also killed most Ottomans (Mircea is said to have reached 100,000, as well as Dracula and Stephen--although for Mircea, the numbers are probably exagerated). And we haven't reached the reign of Michael, yet! Shame on you. Not only don't you respect Romanian history, you also are ignorant of it! Shame!
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Jul 23, 2011 9:48:12 GMT -5
For the most part you're right about this. I don't have much respect for Romanian history, especially when I hear people talking about some euphoric tale of a Roman-Dacian union that resulted in the formation of the modern day Romanians. There was no such thing, the Romans came, conquered, raped, and pillaged as they've always done.. and some years later they left.
Furthermore, I personally cannot understand how someone can take pride in being common Roman slaves. Like I said, we were under East Roman Rule for longer than you were under Roman rule.. and let me tell you, this is NOT something we are proud of. It would be the same as to pride ourselves in the Ottoman Empire, ie. the same empire that took our freedom.
Both East Roman Rule and Ottoman rule are seen as dark periods in Bulgarian history, maybe that's why our opinions differ.
Though, I will admit, as you've mention there are some bright moments of bravery and balls in your history.. those I respect, however you've missed the point entirely.
The point was that I was talking about common slaves rising up against a force that was certain to destroy them, and even so they did it.. while you're discussing military victories. We have plenty of those, not so much against the Ottomans but against the East Roman Empire.
So while my people were struggling for freedom, your people were involved in political games with the Ottomans; providing supplies for the Ottoman armies, and even mercenary troops.. especially in the early days of your vassalage.
Lol. Don't choke now.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 23, 2011 10:07:54 GMT -5
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jul 23, 2011 10:10:00 GMT -5
The Slavs were synonymous to slaves for early medieval people. Not only to be captured, bought and sold like cattle but they were used as cannon fodder by Turkic tribes such as Avars and Bulgars or Germanics like the Rus. Also it's interesting that the old Roman word for slave was servus (replaced in the Middle Age by sclavus). Doesn't the word servus sound very close to a certain ethnonym? To add to that there was even a country called 'SerVia' for centuries.
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Post by Anittas on Jul 23, 2011 10:55:10 GMT -5
No, freak, it is who you helped the Ottomans against their wars against Moldavia. Although, admitedly, they couldn't use you for fighting. You only cleared the way for the Ottoman troops to advance. Twenty-thousand Bulgarians did this.
So what good were you? They only used your daughters to deflower them and then they threw you like garbage.
P.S. We and the Russians eliberated your sorry ass from the Ottomans, because not even this you could accomplish on your own.
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Post by Anittas on Jul 23, 2011 11:00:18 GMT -5
Your victories against Eastern Roman Empire... pls... you got your ass kicked everywhere. Then the Byzantines took pitty on you and invited you to settle where you are now. Then, while fighting the Turks and the Arabs, you backstabbed them. Great victory you got there! The only great victories that you accomplished were under the Romanian Asans.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Jul 23, 2011 12:41:13 GMT -5
For the most part you're right about this. I don't have much respect for Romanian history, especially when I hear people talking about some euphoric tale of a Roman-Dacian union that resulted in the formation of the modern day Romanians. There was no such thing, the Romans came, conquered, raped, and pillaged as they've always done.. and some years later they left. You don' have much respect for Romanian history? You don't seem to know much history. Romans were indeed ruthless with those they considered a threat. But that's another talk. As for Dacian - Roman relations, you can read the following link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-RomanIt's interesting that Emperor Galerius placed huge taxes on the city of Rome as a revenge not for "the raping and pillaging of his ancestors" but "because his forefathers had been made liable to a like tax imposed by the victorious Trajan, as a penalty on the Dacians for their frequent rebellions".
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Post by uz on Jul 23, 2011 17:09:26 GMT -5
The Slavs were synonymous to slaves for early medieval people. Not only to be captured, bought and sold like cattle but they were used as cannon fodder by Turkic tribes such as Avars and Bulgars or Germanics like the Rus. Also it's interesting that the old Roman word for slave was servus (replaced in the Middle Age by sclavus). Doesn't the word servus sound very close to a certain ethnonym? To add to that there was even a country called 'SerVia' for centuries. Yes, Servia, the country that most of the Dalmatia coast belonged to. lol Lets give the "slaves" a country, that would really keep them in order. Lets give them a country so maybe they can organize themsevles one day to grow, get organized and attack us. Did it go like this guys? the country attained to a considerable height of economic prosperity and intellectual developmentwww.newadvent.org/cathen/13732a.htmIn the seventh century the forefathers of the present Serbs, a tribe of the southern Slavs, migrated into the country, which received from them the name of Servia - And we already know the term "Serb" well let me refrence this AGAIN. Scholars have suggested that the Indo-European root *ser- 'to watch over, protect', akin to Latin servare 'to keep, guard, protect, preserve, observe' During the Middle Ages and well into modern times the term included not only the present Servia, but also Bosnia, Herzegovina, Montenegro, and the northern parts of Macedonia and Albania - So now let's let the "slaves" expand, and gain more land. Gain power, and soverienity. Oh the slaves must be shun !The sadruga was composed of about fifty or sixty persons, who bore a common name and obeyed an elder who was the representative of the clan in dealings with outsiders or with the gods. All members of the clan had the same rights and were entitled to a share of the common possessions. Several such family-clans formed a tribe whose affairs were managed by a council of the family elders. At the head of the tribe was a Zupan, elected by the elders of the families. The religion of the Serbs was a natural religion.[/i] - lets give the "slaves" the freedom to govern themsevles, and think for themselves, that will keep the in line, lol.
Judging by the above mentioned, you guys could have really learned something from us. Nice try guys, keep em coming.
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