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Post by uz on Sept 18, 2011 19:47:16 GMT -5
nato's selling of weapons & soldiers helps the american economic crisis, however the growing lack of european participation will make nato a burden upon american foreign relations and economy. So something "like" NATO (as I said) will be introduced and have little differences along the way.
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Post by toskaliku8711 on Sept 19, 2011 0:29:59 GMT -5
Every discussion of a united Balkans seems to always fail when placed in front of the myopic perspective of the Balkanians. Case in point, every map of a united Balkans drawn by Aadmin shows a Kosovo that is within Serbia. When Albanians protest to this, saying "we do not want that!" Admin and other Serbs proceed with the totalitarian argument: "Well, we would be stronger!" And thereby the whole endeavor collapses. Rather than creating a Balkans based on a certain level of respect and recognition of realities, people who propose these ideas seem to rely on the very foundation that brought to death the first Yugoslavia.
It seem amazing to me that people can conceive of unions while maintaining the old ideas and perspectives that caused so much damage in the past. Now, some Serbs may say: "Well, why do you expect us to let go? Why can't Albanians in Kosovo?" Well, this is a case of physical reality vs. the desires and wishes of another. This argument then in turn leads to the violence threat which in turn undermines the very sustainability of any proposed Balkan union.
A proposed union would be an open one. A union which would be supranational. That is, it would mean that it would relegate the independent states to a sebserviant status under the popular union. I am all for such a thing, so long as the independent state complex is actually relegated. If a Serb says "Kosovo is Serbia", this inevitably breaks such a mentality...
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Post by darkness on Sept 19, 2011 12:20:32 GMT -5
Every discussion of a united Balkans seems to always fail when placed in front of the myopic perspective of the Balkanians. Case in point, every map of a united Balkans drawn by Aadmin shows a Kosovo that is within Serbia. When Albanians protest to this, saying "we do not want that!" Admin and other Serbs proceed with the totalitarian argument: "Well, we would be stronger!" And thereby the whole endeavor collapses. Rather than creating a Balkans based on a certain level of respect and recognition of realities, people who propose these ideas seem to rely on the very foundation that brought to death the first Yugoslavia. It seem amazing to me that people can conceive of unions while maintaining the old ideas and perspectives that caused so much damage in the past. Now, some Serbs may say: "Well, why do you expect us to let go? Why can't Albanians in Kosovo?" Well, this is a case of physical reality vs. the desires and wishes of another. This argument then in turn leads to the violence threat which in turn undermines the very sustainability of any proposed Balkan union. A proposed union would be an open one. A union which would be supranational. That is, it would mean that it would relegate the independent states to a sebserviant status under the popular union. I am all for such a thing, so long as the independent state complex is actually relegated. If a Serb says "Kosovo is Serbia", this inevitably breaks such a mentality... very good point my friend,i have been ignoring the kosova issue wich is very sensitive,we probably first have to solve this before anything can happen.
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Post by darkness on Sept 19, 2011 12:22:44 GMT -5
yugoslavia sacrificed our identity, history and sacred customs for power, now if that's not an unholy creation i don't know what is. Aadmin, the Serbdom will unite! Srpska will declare unilateral independence, NATO will dismantle, Seselj will return, and Serbia's troops will march on Pristina. This i guarantee you ONLY IN YOUR DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!if you want to see serbian troops march go to belgrade or let them march in podogrica but not in my land, HELL NO
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Sept 19, 2011 12:28:38 GMT -5
Maintaining antagonism between bellow Balkanians means existence of opposing sides which will be fueled by outside centers and be are back to square one without any progress.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 19, 2011 12:31:58 GMT -5
we cannot, as a people, afford to allow an injustice (kosovo) to waltz by. the serbdom must unite.
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Post by darkness on Sept 19, 2011 12:34:07 GMT -5
we cannot, as a people, afford to allow an injustice (kosovo) to waltz by. the serbdom must unite. it's people like you who have made balkan backward as it is now
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Post by terroreign on Sept 19, 2011 12:38:29 GMT -5
strange...serbia, montenegro and republika srpska are some of the strongest economic & cultural countries in the balkans....while people of my tribe in Plav go to Vermosh to get women.
Compared to Plav, Vermosh (Albania) is in the stone-age, no electricity, water....
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Sept 19, 2011 14:20:46 GMT -5
People are not grasping the severity of what is happening in Balkans.
NO statelet (including Serbia, Croatia, Albania, etc etc) will EVER be able to do anything on THEIR OWN. They are not really independent. Each one is nothing more then in a state of vassalage towards bigger powers. These nationalists (as some can be clearly seen here in the forums) are in essence serving the interests of the greater powers by reinforcing divisions in Balkans.
Example of why Balkans is not independent.
Lets look at one of the biggest states that existed there in the past 100 years or so that used to be called Yugoslavia.
1) Post 1WWW. The only reason why first Yugoslavia was created right after 1WW cause it SUITED western powers THEN. Austro-Hungary was a massive state that just broke up and Yugoslavia, expanded Romania and Czechoslovakia in comparison were nothing even close (while all three being also French satellites, France being one of the bigger winners from the war on European scene).
2) Post 2WW. Communist Yugoslavia was allowed to remain as such cause it served as a buffer state between the east and the west (after late 1940s). After the 2WW basically it briefly became a Soviet satellite till late 1940s when Tito and Stalin parted ways. The moment USSR ceased to exist spelled doom for Yugoslavia. West wanted to see as de-fragmented Balkans as possible.
Another example is modern Turkey. This became a modern state (early 1920s) because west didn't want to see newly created communist Russia expand its influence towards Mediterranean region. Greece (was in my view given briefly green light by the west until its failed military campaigns in Anatolia became more then apparent) briefly before that tried to take entire Anatolia but was not successful and modern Turkey had to be created. Turkey is still relevant to the west cause its a western Trojan horse that will introduce more of western influence and values in the near east.
Balkan statelets are not states but only appear to look like they are. Montenegro and FYROM abruptly recognize Kosovo not because they wanted but because they were TOLD to do so by the west which wants ti cement it own mark in Kosovo by introducing it as a new (quasi) state. Serbia's spirit is gradually being broken by the west. Romania and Bulgaria have become new economic colonies of the west via EU (while in effect al of Balkans is). Greece will be broken by artificial economic means ('crisis') unless it becomes more subservient to the needs of the west. Bosnia is a western protectorate.
ONly the naive can actually think that there will be any greater Serbia, greater Croatia, greater Bulgaria, etc etc unless it is (temporarily) approved by the west for as long as it suits them.
Its a slave arguing with a slave while each id blind to reality of being slaves (for neither sees the chains or choses to not see them).
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Post by Anittas on Sept 19, 2011 14:24:12 GMT -5
Well, I'm with the West then. When you guys grow strong, give us a call.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Sept 19, 2011 14:49:14 GMT -5
Thanks for letting me know.
We will call you in Sweden when that happens.
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Post by darkness on Sept 19, 2011 15:02:38 GMT -5
Well, I'm with the West then. When you guys grow strong, give us a call. i see that the kosova issue is to strong to overcome,so i have to say that this balkan union isn't going to happen.bro we're all with the west,afterall we're living here and i'm grateful for that.i live in belgium,i can't talk bad about the west bcs they are feeding me,they allow me to study and to have a very good and peaceful life.and if it wasn't for them my people would be exterminated,cro,bosniaks probably too.i only support balkan union bcs it would be economically much better but i don't believe this NWO theories.and one thing that bothers me here,is that some who support balkan union,they ignore issues like kosova or just chose to take their freedom away.many romanians are coming here(most are gypsys)but i have met a very nice romanian couple with a very cute baby,we had a very good conversation,they were like mine family in the nineties just looking to have a peaceful stable life.we had a very good life in yugo(mine father was ingeneer,my mother was a pharmacist)but when milosovic came he ruined everything,my whole city is almost burn to the ground.srry to bother you with my live story LOL
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Post by terroreign on Sept 19, 2011 15:02:47 GMT -5
there will always be a power controlling another power and so on. however it is in the interests of the west to have a strong & productive balkans...as well as keeping up the image of democracy & supporting self-determination...
Once Serbs unite, the possibilities will be endless
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Post by Anittas on Sept 19, 2011 15:27:04 GMT -5
there will always be a power controlling another power and so on. however it is in the interests of the west to have a strong & productive balkans...as well as keeping up the image of democracy & supporting self-determination... Once Serbs unite, the possibilities will be endless No offense, but I believe the Serbs have been united before and we've all seen the result. Again, no offense.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 19, 2011 15:27:40 GMT -5
Thanks for letting me know. We will call you in Sweden when that happens. Cool. I might then come and visit you in America.
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Post by Anittas on Sept 19, 2011 15:29:01 GMT -5
Well, I'm with the West then. When you guys grow strong, give us a call. i see that the kosova issue is to strong to overcome,so i have to say that this balkan union isn't going to happen.bro we're all with the west,afterall we're living here and i'm grateful for that.i live in belgium,i can't talk bad about the west bcs they are feeding me,they allow me to study and to have a very good and peaceful life.and if it wasn't for them my people would be exterminated,cro,bosniaks probably too.i only support balkan union bcs it would be economically much better but i don't believe this NWO theories.and one thing that bothers me here,is that some who support balkan union,they ignore issues like kosova or just chose to take their freedom away.many romanians are coming here(most are gypsys)but i have met a very nice romanian couple with a very cute baby,we had a very good conversation,they were like mine family in the nineties just looking to have a peaceful stable life.we had a very good life in yugo(mine father was ingeneer,my mother was a pharmacist)but when milosovic came he ruined everything,my whole city is almost burn to the ground.srry to bother you with my live story LOL I've only scanned through this gibberish of yours. How about you learn how to use punctuation so to make life easier for your readers?
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Post by darkness on Sept 19, 2011 15:32:24 GMT -5
i see that the kosova issue is to strong to overcome,so i have to say that this balkan union isn't going to happen.bro we're all with the west,afterall we're living here and i'm grateful for that.i live in belgium,i can't talk bad about the west bcs they are feeding me,they allow me to study and to have a very good and peaceful life.and if it wasn't for them my people would be exterminated,cro,bosniaks probably too.i only support balkan union bcs it would be economically much better but i don't believe this NWO theories.and one thing that bothers me here,is that some who support balkan union,they ignore issues like kosova or just chose to take their freedom away.many romanians are coming here(most are gypsys)but i have met a very nice romanian couple with a very cute baby,we had a very good conversation,they were like mine family in the nineties just looking to have a peaceful stable life.we had a very good life in yugo(mine father was ingeneer,my mother was a pharmacist)but when milosovic came he ruined everything,my whole city is almost burn to the ground.srry to bother you with my live story LOL I've only scanned through this gibberish of yours. How about you learn how to use punctuation so to make life easier for your readers? i'm running for mod,if you want change or just an iphone4 vote for me to become mod for the serbian forum
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Post by terroreign on Sept 19, 2011 15:32:41 GMT -5
there will always be a power controlling another power and so on. however it is in the interests of the west to have a strong & productive balkans...as well as keeping up the image of democracy & supporting self-determination... Once Serbs unite, the possibilities will be endless No offense, but I believe the Serbs have been united before and we've all seen the result. Again, no offense. none taken. many are under the impression that communist yugoslavia was like some greater serbia when in fact it was an opponent of serb nationalism and culture....under milosevic we didn't get to see any benefits due to the muslims and croats going to war with us...
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Post by Anittas on Sept 19, 2011 15:49:33 GMT -5
If I understand you correctly, Krivo, you seek a Serb union (Macedonia included) and not necessarily a Balkan union. That's fair, because I don't think you can promote the cultural and the national interest of one specific country and expect the other countries to join in this union.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 19, 2011 15:56:27 GMT -5
yes, i wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment. countries have their own problems, egos, mentalities, and interests...i think some form of a balkan union can exist in the future, but it be economic...and not try to implement any kind of national or ethnic unity.
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