Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 28, 2011 20:51:06 GMT -5
Vardar - The most accepted theory on the origin of the name Vardar derives Bardários from the Thracian language, from PIE *(s)wordo-wori- 'black water' (cf. German schwarz 'black', Latin suāsum 'dirt', Ossetian xuaræn 'color', Persian xvāl 'lampblack', Old Irish sorb 'stain, dirt'). This can be considered a translation or similar meaning of Axios, itself Thracian for 'not-shining' from PIE *n.-sk(e)i (cf. Avestan axšaēna 'dark-coloured'), and found in another name at the mouth of the Danube, Axíopa "dark water", renamed in Slavic Crna voda 'black water'.The name Bardários (Βαρδάριος) was sometimes used by the Ancient Greeks in the 3rd Century BCE; the same name was widely used during Byzantine era. Skopje - The name of Skopje is derived from an ancient name that is attested in antiquity as Latin Scupi, the name of a classical era Greco-Roman frontier fortress town of Thracian (Paeonian) origin. Heraclea Lyncestis - Founded by Philip II of Macedon in the middle of the 4th century BC in Lynkestis, after its conquest. The town was named in honor of the mythological Heracles. During the Roman period it got the name Heraclea Lyncestis in Latin, from which the English name is derived. Stobi - The name Stobi is Paeonian and meant "post, pillar" and is akin Old Prussian stabis "rock", Old Church Slavonic stoboru "pillar", English staff, Old English stapol "post", and archaic Greek stobos "scolding, bad language". Prilep - Prilep was founded on the ruins of the ancient city of Styberra, first a town in Macedon and later incorporated into the Roman Empire. Styberra, though razed by the Goths in 268, remained partly inhabited. Negotino - A settlement in the location of modern Negotino existed and developed in antiquity. Between 278 and 242 BC, a city was founded by King Antigonus II Gonatas, under the name of Antigoneia. After conquering Paionia, he conquered the settlements around the central Vardar region. Antigoneia was situated some twelve Roman miles south of the ancient city of Stobi, on the road to Thessaloniki, at the location of modern Gradiste, near the railway station of Negotino. At this place, Roman coins were found, as well as precious jewelry and other archeological findings from the period of the Roman and Byzantine period. The ancient city existed until the 11th century when it was destroyed by a disastrous earthquake which hit almost all of the territory of Macedonia along with other cities such as Skupi, Stobi, Heraclea, Astibo, and Idomena. Stip - Štip (or Astibo/Astibos/Astibus) has its heritage in being the ancient capital of the Paeonian tribe who were situated in the region west of the fertile river Axius basin, around the fifth and fourth centuries BC. The two tribes that lived along the river Astibo, an estuary to the Axius, were the Derrones, named after their god of healing, Darron, and the Laeaeans, who minted their own heavy coins as a sign of their sovereignty following the example of the Greek city-states on Chalkidiki. Although these tribes were heavily weakened by the Persian invasion of 480 BC, led by King Xerxes I, they remained a formidable power and a well-organized people, renowned for the production of their exceptionally heavy coins with emblems including domesticated specimens of the wild aurochs for which Paeonia was also famous. They were absorbed into the Macedonian empire by Alexander I before 360BC. Valandovo - Evidence of life can be found beginning in the 10th-7th centuries B.C. There is a settlement known as Mal Konstantinopol (Small Constantinople) dating from Roman times, and the life in the Middle Ages is marked by Marco’s Tower. In the vicinity of the town there are also two very important archeological sites – The Isar Marvinci and the knowledge experts have on the existence of the ancient city Idomenae. (ancient Paeonian town and now an archaeological site located near the village of Marvinci, near Valandovo, modern Republic of Macedonia. Idomenae dates from the 7th century B.C) Pelagonia - Macedonian locality may be long lost kingdom of PelagoniaThursday, 25 September 2008 6:37:31 PM by ANI Washington, September 25 (ANI): Latest discoveries by archaeologists have shown a massive royal grave site in a village known as Bonce in Macedonia, one of a kind in the Balkans, which has led them to suggest that the locality may be the long lost kingdom of Pelagonia. The grave site was discovered by a team led by Professor Viktor Lilcic. According to the way this was built, the brilliance behind it, and just from the sheer size of the grave site, we believe the king of Pelagonia had been buried here, said Dr. Antonio Jakimovski, coordinator of the Archeological Research. The grave site is from the 4th century B.C. when the kingdom of the Pelagonians was around. It was suggested the site had been robbed even in Antic times. This is one of the rarest gravesites not just in the Balkans, but globally that goes back to the 4th century BC, said Jakimovski. The site is located right underneath the hill of Visoka where it is suggested to be the site of the city of Pelagonia. Unfortunately, the Government did not allocate funds this year for the Visoka location. Archeologists have been searching for the city of Pelagonia and the Pelagonian kingdom for more than 150 years. This find will undoubtedly make funds available for Visoka in 2009. Just two years ago, near the hill of Visoka were discovered three Macedonian Shields of King Demetrij with the Vergina Sun embedded on them. The shields are currently undergoing restorations. When completed, the world will see for the first time what the shields of the Macedonian phalanx looked like. (ANI) www.culture.in.mk/story.asp?id=21052&rub=43
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 28, 2011 21:05:34 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 28, 2011 23:18:38 GMT -5
I'll be waiting to see what the BuLgari will be saying, take for instance Vardar, Prilep or even Ohrid.
PS l know what the BuLgari will be firing at you Chento, so be preparred lol
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 28, 2011 23:50:03 GMT -5
OhridThe earliest inhabitants of the widest Lake Ohrid region were tribes of disputable Illyrian origin, the Dassaretae and Encheleans. Acording to recent excavations by Macedonian archaeologists it was a town way back at the time of king Phillip II of Macedon. Samuil's Fortress was built on the place of an earlier fortification, dated to 4th century B.C. During the Roman conquests, towards the end of 3rd and the beginning of 2nd century BC, the Dassaretae and the region Dassaretia were mentioned, as well as the town of Lychnidos. The existence of the ancient town of Lychnidos is linked to the Greek myth of the Phoenician prince Cadmus who, banished from Thebes, in Boetia, fled to the Enchelei and founded the town of Lychnidos on the shores of Lake Ohrid. Ohrid town is first mentioned in Greek documents from 353 B.C., when it was known as Lychnidos – or, “the city of light.” Only much later, in 879 A.D., was it renamed Ohrid, by the Slavs. The name probably derives from the phrase “Vo Hrid” – meaning roughly, “on the hill.” Some ancient Macedonian artifects found at Samuil's Fortress; www.mav.mk/article.php?lang=mk&article=44
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 29, 2011 1:01:28 GMT -5
Bylazora Bylazora or Vylazora was a Paionian city from the period of early classic antiquity. It is located in Ovce Pole, a valley in the Republic of Macedonia, 4 km away from present day Sveti Nikole. It was a large city, with an area of about 19 hectares. The geographic dominance over the surrounding valley has determined the communications significance of the city in ancient times. It was situated between the states (or sometimes provinces) of Dardani, Thrace and Macedonia. Ancient Bylazora was the biggest and most significant city of Paionia, mentioned in the records of Polybius and Titus Livius. They emphasize its strategic geographic position as a frontier of the northern border of Macedonia against the Dardanians. According to experts, there are two significant dates related to the relations between ancient Macedonia and Bylazora: The first is 217 BC. when king Philip V of Macedonia reconstructed its fortifications; The second is 168 BC. when king Perseus of Macedonia, during the Third Macedonian War, arranged military support from the Gauls who were camping nearby, in defending the city against the Romans. www.tfahr.org/Bylazora08.html
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 29, 2011 1:44:35 GMT -5
the only ancient mak toponyms mentioned above are:
- Heraclea Lyncestis (self explainable) - Antigonia (anti, gonos, anti-goni, see Euripides, etc...) - Pelagonia
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 29, 2011 1:45:23 GMT -5
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 29, 2011 1:47:03 GMT -5
Ohrid town is first mentioned in Greek documents from 353 B.C., when it was known as Lychnidos � or, �the city of light.� Only much later, in 879 A.D., was it renamed Ohrid, by the Slavs. The name probably derives from the phrase �Vo Hrid� � meaning roughly, �on the hill.� Hmm i have the impression that Serbs use "U" while Bulgars/slovens use "V"-"Vo" right? I would think that "O" is closer to U than Vo, so the original Serbian name must have been Uhrid.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 29, 2011 1:51:42 GMT -5
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Post by Sokol on Sept 29, 2011 1:54:18 GMT -5
Ohrid town is first mentioned in Greek documents from 353 B.C., when it was known as Lychnidos � or, �the city of light.� Only much later, in 879 A.D., was it renamed Ohrid, by the Slavs. The name probably derives from the phrase �Vo Hrid� � meaning roughly, �on the hill.� Hmm i have the impression that Serbs use "U" while Bulgars/slovens use "V"-"Vo" right? I would think that "O" is closer to U than Vo, so the original Serbian name must have been Uhrid. There is no record of any Serb settlement of Ohrid. There is however records of ancient Macedonian settlement and Slavic settlement. Serbs have played no part in it's history. Serbs are north of the Shar mountains...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 29, 2011 2:14:37 GMT -5
Hmm i have the impression that Serbs use "U" while Bulgars/slovens use "V"-"Vo" right? I would think that "O" is closer to U than Vo, so the original Serbian name must have been Uhrid. There is no record of any Serb settlement of Ohrid. There is however records of ancient Macedonian settlement and Slavic settlement. Serbs have played no part in it's history. Serbs are north of the Shar mountains... There is no record of Serb settlement in Epiros either (apart from Dusanovo Carstvo). However the old toponyms show a huge bias towards modern serb lands in Bosnia. We have many "Jakavica" sounding toponyms, which point to smth modern Ukranian-Russian-SlavoBulgarian. Those might be even older than that. Also, we have toponyms in EKAVICA, which predate the Serbs. And if those ppl were identical with Serbs and named their villages EXACTLY like the ones found ONLY in Bosnia, i cannot help but think the obvious.
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Post by ulf on Sept 29, 2011 5:24:11 GMT -5
OhridThe earliest inhabitants of the widest Lake Ohrid region were tribes of disputable Illyrian origin, the Dassaretae and Encheleans. Acording to recent excavations by Macedonian archaeologists it was a town way back at the time of king Phillip II of Macedon. Samuil's Fortress was built on the place of an earlier fortification, dated to 4th century B.C. During the Roman conquests, towards the end of 3rd and the beginning of 2nd century BC, the Dassaretae and the region Dassaretia were mentioned, as well as the town of Lychnidos. The existence of the ancient town of Lychnidos is linked to the Greek myth of the Phoenician prince Cadmus who, banished from Thebes, in Boetia, fled to the Enchelei and founded the town of Lychnidos on the shores of Lake Ohrid. Ohrid town is first mentioned in Greek documents from 353 B.C., when it was known as Lychnidos – or, “the city of light.” Only much later, in 879 A.D., was it renamed Ohrid, by the Slavs. The name probably derives from the phrase “Vo Hrid” – meaning roughly, “on the hill.” You can educate yourself more here: www.ohrid.org.mk/eng/istorija/sloveni.htmso 879 AD is totally wrong date
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 29, 2011 8:43:31 GMT -5
"Hmm i have the impression that Serbs use "U" while Bulgars/slovens use "V"-"Vo" right? I would think that "O" is closer to U than Vo, so the original Serbian name must have been Uhrid."
Pyrro, it might have been, also brate, Slovene and some Croat dialects use like BuLgarski and Standard Vardarian, the 'vec' suffix, while standard Serbian uses vac suffix, so who's to say that vec is BuLgarski influence, it may have been Slovene or Croat too.....OR.....could it be that our proto-slavic ancestors originally used 'vec', which standard vardarian/buLgarski/Slovene/Croat dialects retained, while modern serbian evolved into vac suffixes. Remember brate when l wrote here about isolated pockets of speakers who had a language (slavic language) much closer to slovenian than serbian or BuLgarski.
Brate, hence why l try to avoid modern forms of evolved languages. In some cases you can solve by using evolved forms of speech.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 29, 2011 8:49:03 GMT -5
Chento, serbs did settle in vardar, there is no denying this. Please don't use Bulgarian propaganda as your selling point that influence is only in the north west, its much more than that.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 29, 2011 9:34:43 GMT -5
"Hmm i have the impression that Serbs use "U" while Bulgars/slovens use "V"-"Vo" right? I would think that "O" is closer to U than Vo, so the original Serbian name must have been Uhrid." Pyrro, it might have been, also brate, Slovene and some Croat dialects use like BuLgarski and Standard Vardarian, the 'vec' suffix, while standard Serbian uses vac suffix, so who's to say that vec is BuLgarski influence, it may have been Slovene or Croat too.....OR.....could it be that our proto-slavic ancestors originally used 'vec', which standard vardarian/buLgarski/Slovene/Croat dialects retained, while modern serbian evolved into vac suffixes. Remember brate when l wrote here about isolated pockets of speakers who had a language (slavic language) much closer to slovenian than serbian or BuLgarski. Brate, hence why l try to avoid modern forms of evolved languages. In some cases you can solve by using evolved forms of speech. sure man, but if i have a chance of kicking certain mongolian asses, i will not hesitate in the slightest ;D PS Good thinking man, +1, true Serbian thinking.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Sept 29, 2011 12:23:22 GMT -5
There were never any large scale Serb settlements in Macedonia. A group of Serbs, estimated at around 30,000, migrated South through Macedonia down the Vardar river.. eventually settling in Anatolia forming the settlement known as Gordoservon.
It is probable that some Serbs remained in Macedonia, however they were not a dense population and were few in number, thus making them easy assimilation targets for the local Slavic tribes.
The only other time in the middle ages when Serbia had anything to do with Macedonia was during the Serbian Empire, when Serbia ruled the region of Macedonia for a grand total of 20-30 years.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 29, 2011 18:23:58 GMT -5
There were never any large scale Serb settlements in Macedonia. A group of Serbs, estimated at around 30,000, migrated South through Macedonia down the Vardar river.. eventually settling in Anatolia forming the settlement known as Gordoservon. It is probable that some Serbs remained in Macedonia, however they were not a dense population and were few in number, thus making them easy assimilation targets for the local Slavic tribes. The only other time in the middle ages when Serbia had anything to do with Macedonia was during the Serbian Empire, when Serbia ruled the region of Macedonia for a grand total of 20-30 years. +1
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 29, 2011 23:18:35 GMT -5
Ivo, cut the crap, the vardarians were calling themselves SRBI all the way up the late 19th century.
You always talk about 30,000 Serbs and Gordoservon, as if, those were ALL THE SERBS RELOCATED OFF TOO ASIA MINOR. Then explain resettlement of Serbs from Vardar to Asia Minor ALSO in the 12th century?.....It wasn't just once or twice, but more.
I really really have a hard time saying this because of my love for the Greek people and deepest respect for them, but again, the Serbian people FIRST settled in Northern Greece or MACEDONIA, one part of them stayed behind to become the Slavic people of the region. The other part then spread out and settled in vardar/serbia/bosnia.
Let Pyrro explain to you the toponymns from Serbs of the middle ages.
PS the question is did the Turkish BuLgari ever settle in those regions?
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Sept 29, 2011 23:24:04 GMT -5
Ivo, cut the crap, the vardarians were calling themselves SRBI all the way up the late 19th century. You always talk about 30,000 Serbs and Gordoservon, as if, those were ALL THE SERBS RELOCATED OFF TOO ASIA MINOR. Then explain resettlement of Serbs from Vardar to Asia Minor ALSO in the 12th century?.....It wasn't just once or twice, but more. I really really have a hard time saying this because of my love for the Greek people and deepest respect for them, but again, the Serbian people FIRST settled in Northern Greece or MACEDONIA, one part of them stayed behind to become the Slavic people of the region. The other part then spread out and settled in vardar/serbia/bosnia. Let Pyrro explain to you the toponymns from Serbs of the middle ages. PS the question is did the Turkish Bu Lgari ever settle in those regions? Serbs or Slavs? The two are not the same....
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 30, 2011 2:23:19 GMT -5
^^^ Epirotic toponyms shows this is the same.
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