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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 12, 2011 22:56:44 GMT -5
One more thing about the "illegal" declaration of independence, why did the UN judges vote 10 to 4 claiming that it was legit?
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Post by uz on Nov 12, 2011 22:57:31 GMT -5
Are you talking about the ICJ ?
(i have to run now, but I'll get back to you on that)
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 12, 2011 22:58:26 GMT -5
You can put politics to the side. I'm speaking solely on morality and what's fair.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 12, 2011 23:05:56 GMT -5
I believe it was UN. My posts have been rather sloppy. I'm at work.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Nov 13, 2011 0:16:32 GMT -5
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 13, 2011 0:50:24 GMT -5
^Its under the UN.
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Post by uz on Nov 13, 2011 1:51:28 GMT -5
ICJ ruling explicitly ruled that the declaration was legal. Of course, it was the wrong question that was asked. Anyone province/state/region/district etc... has the right to declare independace, this is partly democracy is about. The question should have revolved around two things; Examining the secession aspect (and not declaration), and examining KFOR's performance while "fulfilling" their 1244 protocol. The ruling even noted that the question itself was about "declaration" and not "remedial-secession". It was also noted that UNRES1244 was still in full-effect, and also quotes this; "Further, it bears recalling that the tenth preambular paragraph of resolution 1244 (1999) also recalled the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" This^ fact doesn't change. All in all it comes down to stupidity and a cheap distraction. The ruling landed in the middle, and I think that was the point. The ruling gave no reason for sudden change of hearts around the world. Ever since the ruling the only countries who have recognized Kosovo are small insignificant islands in the south east who are in such a deep hole in debt to the USA and UK and EU (to a lesser degree). That card was preserved till later. For obvious reasons, since the United States and erm erm... Kosovo were expecting and flooding of recognitions b/c of it. The countries who will not recognize Kosovo have not at all been shaken by that verdict. In fact it hasn't even been brought up since.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 13, 2011 2:34:49 GMT -5
^So you have the right to declare independence but the secession part is sketchy. Im not taking a shot at you, I understand what you are saying. It just sounds fucked up. As far as the insignificat islands you mention. I don't think the EU is letting slide on behalf of recognizing Kosova. Haha come on.
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Post by uz on Nov 13, 2011 3:21:51 GMT -5
^ Read past the first sentence. The ICJ ruling is irrelevant, to the reality on the grounds. Like I said already anyone district/state/province etc... has the right to declare whatever they want, the repercussions afterwards are another story tho. Did you hear about this? Italian town Filettino declares independence www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14774526You see what I mean? No matter how stupid it sounds, it was the ICJ that clearly stated the difference between declaration and secession.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 13, 2011 3:42:47 GMT -5
I heard about the town Italy. Like I said I understand it. Your arrogance is mirroring that of Derk's.
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Post by derk on Nov 13, 2011 3:44:20 GMT -5
^Was that an insult to me shqipni?
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 13, 2011 4:07:10 GMT -5
I didn't mean it as an insult but you are the Kanye West of the forum.
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Post by derk on Nov 13, 2011 4:37:06 GMT -5
^I agree, if someone here could be him, it would definitely be me, that's how awesome I am.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 13, 2011 5:13:08 GMT -5
^Haha just keep running circles around novi pa-kar and we are cool.
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Post by derk on Nov 13, 2011 7:11:03 GMT -5
lol ;D
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Post by uz on Nov 13, 2011 13:26:01 GMT -5
I heard about the town Italy. Like I said I understand it. Your arrogance is mirroring that of Derk's. It's not arrogance. It just is what it is. The verdict clearly stated that declarations within itself are not illegal in international law. The verdict-document even states that a "secession" can only be binding if warcrimes against a certain minority group are commited. It was a war, no crimes were committed (this is stated everywhere). Thus it even said that it would be an internal matter. The only reason why the Albanians seem to be ahead is b/c of the blatant stupidity of the Serbian politicians. Tadic/Jeremic should have stuck with UNRES1244 from the beginning, and they should have brought that to the court, which even said, recognizes. The game would have been over by now, if they followed Milosevic's instructions on what the motive was behind that agreement. These idiots in Belgrade are focusing far too much on "recognitions", recognitions mean jack all if Kosovo is in fact still Serbia. While the Albanian-lobby goes around searching for support, the Serbians should be focusing on accelerating the resolution.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Nov 13, 2011 13:30:28 GMT -5
Sexy.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Nov 13, 2011 19:47:52 GMT -5
I heard about the town Italy. Like I said I understand it. Your arrogance is mirroring that of Derk's. It's not arrogance. It just is what it is. The verdict clearly stated that declarations within itself are not illegal in international law. The verdict-document even states that a "secession" can only be binding if warcrimes against a certain minority group are commited. It was a war, no crimes were committed (this is stated everywhere). Thus it even said that it would be an internal matter. The only reason why the Albanians seem to be ahead is b/c of the blatant stupidity of the Serbian politicians. Tadic/Jeremic should have stuck with UNRES1244 from the beginning, and they should have brought that to the court, which even said, recognizes. The game would have been over by now, if they followed Milosevic's instructions on what the motive was behind that agreement. These idiots in Belgrade are focusing far too much on "recognitions", recognitions mean jack all if Kosovo is in fact still Serbia. While the Albanian-lobby goes around searching for support, the Serbians should be focusing on accelerating the resolution. No war crimes commited? Dude I'm really trying to give you a chance here. There's evidence of crimes against innocent children. You know this but you don't care. It's all about having control of a people as you see as inferior and the land that you shat on while you had it. I think atdhetar has the right mentality when it comes to dealing with the serbs on here. These war crimes which you refuse to acknowledge are not some orthodox fairytales, they fucking happened.
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Post by uz on Nov 13, 2011 19:53:52 GMT -5
It's not arrogance. It just is what it is. The verdict clearly stated that declarations within itself are not illegal in international law. The verdict-document even states that a "secession" can only be binding if warcrimes against a certain minority group are commited. It was a war, no crimes were committed (this is stated everywhere). Thus it even said that it would be an internal matter. The only reason why the Albanians seem to be ahead is b/c of the blatant stupidity of the Serbian politicians. Tadic/Jeremic should have stuck with UNRES1244 from the beginning, and they should have brought that to the court, which even said, recognizes. The game would have been over by now, if they followed Milosevic's instructions on what the motive was behind that agreement. These idiots in Belgrade are focusing far too much on "recognitions", recognitions mean jack all if Kosovo is in fact still Serbia. While the Albanian-lobby goes around searching for support, the Serbians should be focusing on accelerating the resolution. No war crimes commited? Dude I'm really trying to give you a chance here. There's evidence of crimes against innocent children. You know this but you don't care. It's all about having control of a people as you see as inferior and the land that you shat on while you had it. I think atdhetar has the right mentality when it comes to dealing with the serbs on here. These war crimes which you refuse to acknowledge are not some orthodox fairytales, they f**king happened. Using the same ^ logic, when will you aknowlege the crimes commited against Serbs?
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Post by uz on Nov 13, 2011 20:10:50 GMT -5
we're talking about the ICJ.
anyway...
I am going to say again;
Serbs were not commiting genocide in Kosovo, nor where they trying to "ethnically-cleanse" you. In fact evidence shows the opposite, when the KLA started expelling Serb families from there homes en-mass. The Serbian government had ALL THE RIGHT to enter Kosovo with the military, it was an internal-affair, as it was stated by the ICJ and the UN.
The United States and NATO had zero-reasons/grounds to intervene. So they waited to see how things would un-ravel. Milosevic was careful, he did everything according to protocol. So out of nowhere, the massacre at Racak comes out in the mainstream (later to be proven a hoax) and the United States along with NATO used THAT as the PRIME-reason to enter intervene in Yugoslavia.
The UN security council wasn't even convinced with those claims, with good reason too. Thus they even denied legitimacy in the intervention.
Women and children died during the war, of course, but to say they were all Albanian is very arrogant and delusional. Also, to say that was genocide is taking it over the top. The soldiers responsible for those murders should go to jail and we've seen this, on the Serbian side, but we have yet to see this on the Albanian side.
So please spare me the blues on how Serbs need to "aknowledge" the crimes. We know very well crimes were committed and we know who is responsible.
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