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Post by uz on Apr 30, 2012 18:03:52 GMT -5
Catholic clergy involvement with the Ustaše The creation of the Independent State of Croatia was initially welcomed by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and by many Catholic priests. Ante Paveliæ, the head of the Ustaša, was anti-Serb and pro-Catholic, viewing Catholicism as an integral part of Croat culture.[1] Cornwell views the "ancient loyalties to the papacy going back thirteen hundred years" as one of the historical legacies that "underpinned the formation of the NDH" along with Catholic Croat resentment against Orthodox Serbs.[- For the Ustaša, "relations with the Vatican were as important as relations with Germany" because Vatican recognition was the key to widespread Croat support.Ante Paveliæ was received in a private papal audience in Rome in May 1941, just after becoming dictator of Croatia.- As Paveliæ's government cracked down on the Orthodox Serbs, along with the Jewish, Muslim, and Protestant Germanic minorities, the Catholic clergy took steps to encourage Orthodox Serbs to convert to Roman Catholicism. By July 14, 1941—"anticipating its selective conversion policy and eventual goal of genocide"—the Croatian Ministry of Justice instructed the Croatian episcopate that "priests or schoolmasters or, in a word, any of the intelligentsia—including rich Orthodox tradesmen and artisans" should not be admitted. Those that were pre-rejected from the "coming program of enforced conversion" were deported and killed, although many that converted met the same fate.- ...... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Usta%C5%A1eMagnum Crimen Immediately after the book was published, the Vatican Curia placed this book on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum and pronounced anathema (something dedicated to evil) against the author. ::: Observing the Roman Catholic Church activities in Yugoslavia for more than fifty years, Novak concluded that this Church replaced the idea of service to God with service to the Roman Curia, i.e., to the government of Roman Pontificate in the role of world leader. As a result of this idea, in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the Roman Catholic Church identified the Roman Catholicism to the Croatian nationhood which turned most of its priesthood into ardent Ustashe supporters. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_Crimen#Reception
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Post by uz on Apr 30, 2012 18:32:29 GMT -5
So as you can see you're view on Serbs and their "orthodox" extremism and ties to self-identity is really no different from the Croats and their "catholic" extremism and those ties to their self-identity.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on May 1, 2012 6:48:57 GMT -5
Uz, how are the Croats under emphasizing anything? The figures that most Croats accept are the only numbers actually supported by any hard evidence including a list of victims published in Belgrade. Croats are not guilty of number manipulation as concerns jasenovac but guilty of not accepting that ustase can be that twisted. In fact I don't think Croats think enough about all the Croatian victims and inmates that passed through including Croatian patriot vlatko macek. Jasenovac was made into a Serb only tragedy. Also tito didn't hunt Croats to hide their crimes haha
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Post by dalmatino on May 15, 2012 4:32:59 GMT -5
And still no comments on Kocovic and Miletic.
"For many Serbs, maintaining a high number of Jasenovac deaths is absolutely central to their national identity."You Mutt, what comments you looking for ? whether the victims numbered 80k or 800k they are gone and have been killed in the most painful and animalistic way by the most cruelest animals on this planet..so what fkn comments you awaiting ? does it help with your identity if the victim numbers where lower? certainly seems likely since you and your croat buddy keep high fiving each other over innocent victims, ..so as you can see, ...my disgust in your last comment led me to call you, as you presented yourself in this thread... MUTT! I was referring to comments regarding Kocovic's research, the only credible study ever conducted on the death toll in Jugoslavija during WW2 which clearly refutes those exaggerated numbers. I agree, the loss of one innocent life is one too many, be they Serb or Croat. If it would make you feel any easier I could post WW2 photographs of Croat children who had their skulls smashed and hearts cut out by Chetniks, however I suspect that you're not interested in any victims but your own. PS The only 'high fiving' I ever see in regards to the tragedy of WW2 is clowns such as yourself revelling in the satisfaction of a supposed huge death toll.
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Post by dalmatino on May 15, 2012 4:52:51 GMT -5
And still no comments on Kocovic and Miletic.
"For many Serbs, maintaining a high number of Jasenovac deaths is absolutely central to their national identity."You Mutt, what comments you looking for ? whether the victims numbered 80k or 800k they are gone and have been killed in the most painful and animalistic way by the most cruelest animals on this planet..so what fkn comments you awaiting ? does it help with your identity if the victim numbers where lower?certainly seems likely since you and your croat buddy keep high fiving each other over innocent victims, ..so as you can see, ...my disgust in your last comment led me to call you, as you presented yourself in this thread... MUTT! I think you're right Vin. Croats don't have much to say about themsevles without mentioning Serbs somewhere in the negation-sense. The point is, our perspective and what WE think, REALLY REALLY matters to them... such confidence eh... especially when a guy (Dalmatino) opens up an account stricly to bash the victims of those attrocities and offer nothing else. I opened an account in the hope of being able to discuss Serb/Croat history and relations with rational people. Regrettably, I find a bunch of picke that could only hate the Jews more than Croats because they have more dead loool, you fkn toothless bastards. Wallow in your self pity, here, let me place the crown of thorns upon your pathetic heads. odjebi picko books.google.com.au/books?id=kBjrJyen4FEC&pg=PA162&dq=Bogoljub+Kocovic&hl=en&ei=LlifTrjnKYibiQeTuqCqAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Bogoljub%20Kocovic&f=false
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Post by uz on May 15, 2012 12:38:57 GMT -5
Looks like you hate yourself more than anything. As I said you have nothing to say about yourselves unless you throw in something about Serbs in the negation. You want to discuss Serb/Croat relations? You must be demented one way or another if you think that will happen in the Jasenovac thread, quite pathetic if you ask me. Yet not surprising, coming from an arrogant Croat whose sole purpose was too.... well.... you get the point. Let me throw you a picnic blanket so you can indulge in being a Croat... while singing Danke danke Deutschland.
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Post by dalmatino on May 15, 2012 19:35:25 GMT -5
Looks like you hate yourself more than anything. As I said you have nothing to say about yourselves unless you throw in something about Serbs in the negation. You want to discuss Serb/Croat relations? You must be demented one way or another if you think that will happen in the Jasenovac thread, quite pathetic if you ask me. Yet not surprising, coming from an arrogant Croat whose sole purpose was too.... well.... you get the point. Let me throw you a picnic blanket so you can indulge in being a Croat... while singing Danke danke Deutschland. "unless you throw in something about Serbs in the negation" Do we simply accept that your YouTube and Srpska Mreza research could not be possibly flawed? You've been provided with reliable sources yet you choose to ignore them, as usual, you distort the point to fit into your agenda. Moreover, you lack a basic understanding of history and the complexities of war and you certainly are not capable of anything more than the parrot-fashion repeating of propaganda. "discuss Serb/Croat relations?" You understand full well that I meant that in a general sense and not specifically this thread. If anyone is able to find flaws in the Miletic and Kocovic studies then I'd be glad to discuss it objectively. In the meanwhile, you can continue to focus on how great an avatar you can dream up, interrupted by the odd cry about a Croat daring to question any statement on this board.
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Post by vinjak on May 16, 2012 2:12:23 GMT -5
the odd cry about a Croat daring to question any statement on this board.
Question it all you like just dont be a wize azz, this is not the thread for it.
Personally me and everyone I know including my Baka who is the only one to have survived the Ustasa (not in Jasenovac but in Bihac) dont give a flying fk on the numbers, in the end it was the communists who reported the numbers....what all of us do care about though,is the victims and the attempted rehibilitation of those Monsters in the 90's.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Oct 7, 2012 18:50:38 GMT -5
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Post by bowandarrow on Oct 8, 2012 7:00:09 GMT -5
Who believes six million babes? Pffffft.
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Post by Balkaneros on Jun 20, 2013 11:22:13 GMT -5
Some interesting players during the Ustasa movement;
-General Milan Miesler (the Croatian Gendarmerie (Hrvatsko Oruznistvo) was formed on April 30th 1941, as a rural police, commanded first by Major-General Milan Miesler);
- General Oskar Kirchbaum
Hinko Hinkovic, was amongst the ideological and political leaders of Croatian nationalism and Singer, worked for Pavelic's election to parliament in 1927.
-General Josip Šulc
-General Ferdinand Halke
-Josip (Joseph) Frank; Lawyer Bradina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Frank ) radical ant-Serb and supposed role-model for Ante Pavlevic
Why is it interesting.... not because they are Croats but rather jews.
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Post by Balkaneros on Sept 1, 2013 19:07:56 GMT -5
opps there's more ... Aleman vitez Ladisla Balley Emanuel Aleksandar Klein Fritz Julijo Resch Julio Šarnbek Ivan Wanner Rudolf Sach Julio Isser Ðuro Zorn Božidar and there's many many more, a quick search will confirm these names. the real phone-book to the head is that Maria Lovrenčević, Ante Pavlevic's wife, was a jew from her mothers' side (the only side that matters). Maria was part Jewish through her mother's family and her father, Martin Lovrenčević, was a member of the Party of Rights and a well-known journalist.[19] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Paveli%C4%87Has anyone else come across this information, how come no one brings this up? ... this raises eyebrows... or at least it should. Many Ustasa soldiers were reportedly marrying Jewish women ....this includes Milovan Zanic and Slavko Kvaternik for starters, members of Ustasa cabinet. (this should be a big W-T-F to everybody) Nazi-German report (quote) on the Usatase “ Our troops have to be mute witnesses of such events; it does not reflect well on their otherwise high reputation... I am frequently told that German occupation troops would finally have to intervene against Ustaše crimes. This may happen eventually. Right now, with the available forces, I could not ask for such action. Ad hoc intervention in individual cases could make the German Army look responsible for countless crimes which it could not prevent in the past. ” A report addressed to Himmler in 1942; “ Increased activity of the bands [of rebels] is chiefly due to atrocities carried out by Ustaše units in Croatia against the Orthodox population. The Ustaše committed their deeds in a bestial manner not only against males of conscript age, but especially against helpless old people, women and children. The number of the Orthodox that the Croats have massacred and sadistically tortured to death is about three hundred thousand. ” Some food for thought.
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Post by Краљ Ватра on Sept 2, 2013 7:55:34 GMT -5
sorry for the off-topic... but it seems that most important libraries in Beograd were severely bombed during WWI, WWII. The bombings were committed by British and German aircrafts. Ok, the British were on jewish agenda. But what about the German ones? Maybe NAZIs was heavily influenced by jews as well?
Those books that were destroyed, needless to say, say a lot about Serbian history, and SLAV history in general (Serbs being the natural leaders of the southslavs and the balkans, hence attacked that hard by the west).
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Post by Краљ Ватра on Sept 2, 2013 8:04:16 GMT -5
The Ustaše committed their deeds in a bestial manner not only against males of conscript age, but especially against helpless old people, women and children. The number of the Orthodox that the Croats have massacred and sadistically tortured to death is about three hundred thousand. ” Some food for thought. yeah, as if germans had any real objection to this.... If not from the Germans, then where were those anti-slav, anti-human beasts taking their orders from? (not to say .. their drugs from...). THE FREAKING VATICAN MAYBE? Heck, all of them are rotten. And the germans cannot be justified by their sympathy here. Its like USA trying to gain sympathy with regards to criticizing Al Qaeda crimes in Syria, when in fact USA and Al qaeda are best friends in the region. The germans, should help the natural leader in the region, the force of peace : the Serbs, or else GTFO of the balkans... Patronizing the Ustase and then criticizing their over-the-due over-bound activity is clean-cut hipocrisy.
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Post by Balkaneros on Sept 2, 2013 13:08:41 GMT -5
Understand the intent behind these quotes are in no way trying to justify how the Germans treated Serbs and other anti-fascists in Yugoslavia, we all know how it was when their boots were on our soil.
The intent is however to document, this is was their libraries, how they saw Europe going through these events, in particular Balkans. What the Ustase were doing was against Third Reich ideology, and this is only a piece of evidence showing that even the Germans were on to them, I think we can all understand that Hitler didn't have the luxury to choose his allies, do you think he knew the major proponents behind the Ustase ideology were jews?
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Post by Balkaneros on Sept 2, 2013 13:11:02 GMT -5
sorry for the off-topic... but it seems that most important libraries in Beograd were severely bombed during WWI, WWII. The bombings were committed by British and German aircrafts. Ok, the British were on jewish agenda. But what about the German ones? Maybe NAZIs was heavily influenced by jews as well? Those books that were destroyed, needless to say, say a lot about Serbian history, and SLAV history in general (Serbs being the natural leaders of the southslavs and the balkans, hence attacked that hard by the west). I know about the libraries and I also know we'll really have no way of ever really knowing. Just know this, bigger lies have been peddled only to eventually get exposed, and the truth being the opposite, ie; the Katyn massacre
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Post by Novus Dis on Dec 27, 2013 22:38:47 GMT -5
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