Bill
New Member
Uncle Sammy
Posts: 18
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Post by Bill on Dec 15, 2011 6:58:00 GMT -5
I hear you guys talk about this "montenegro" thing. What exactly is it? I once saw a rich dude smoke a cigar called montenegro. Is it like a cuban or somethin'?
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Post by Moe Lester on Dec 15, 2011 8:05:27 GMT -5
It's a country.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Dec 15, 2011 8:21:27 GMT -5
I hear you guys talk about this "montenegro" thing. What exactly is it? I once saw a rich dude smoke a cigar called montenegro. Is it like a cuban or somethin'? Well, there does exist something called the internet and any search engine will give you all the information you need to know. You're probably some troll though.
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Post by Moe Lester on Dec 15, 2011 8:22:54 GMT -5
He is.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 15, 2011 8:30:28 GMT -5
It's apart of Serbia where they claim their ancestry. The majority of Serbians.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Dec 15, 2011 8:45:04 GMT -5
^ Fail
Montenegro is not part of Serbia nor was it ever , strictly speaking. The majority of Montenegrins do not claim Serbian ancestry either , only 35% or so. The only real link Montenegrins have to Serbs is their religion which is mostly dominated by the Serbian Orthodox Church ( which counts any Orthodox slav in their sphere as ethnically 'Serb') though Montenegrins now are pushing for their own church.
It seems highly likely that the Montes are Slavicized Albanians (inland) and Latin/Greek people(coast). For example in the Middle Ages in Dubrovnik's countryside ( Dubrovnik is the southern most city in Croatia) the Albanian language was spoken ( this would be Montenegro and Herzegovina). The customs they share are also well noted.
Serbs had no noted presence in Montenegro until the 12th century when Orthodox Serbia decided to invade Catholic Montenegro, and won the religious war at least.
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Post by dusko1 on Dec 15, 2011 9:34:32 GMT -5
It seems highly likely that the Montes are Slavicized Albanians (inland) and Latin/Greek people(coast). . ^ Fail. Not all Montes are "slavicized Albanians".
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Dec 15, 2011 9:37:26 GMT -5
I didn't say *all' Montes. Clearly there was a Greek/Latin speaking population there as well along the coast line. Still , you cannot deny the cultural continuity between Montenegro's hinterland and Northern Albania. Aside from language and some differences in religion , these are virtually the same kind of people.
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Post by uz on Dec 15, 2011 11:34:05 GMT -5
I hear you guys talk about this "montenegro" thing. What exactly is it? I once saw a rich dude smoke a cigar called montenegro. Is it like a cuban or somethin'? This is a nice peice of steele right here. .. What do you think Bill?
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Bill
New Member
Uncle Sammy
Posts: 18
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Post by Bill on Dec 15, 2011 11:40:44 GMT -5
UZ buddy, that is one beautiful piece of tractor, she is truly remarkable. But old Bill ain't have that kinda' money to buy himself a good tractor like that. I still use the one my grandfather bought for me when I turned 16. Ain't anythin' special, but does the job in the ranch and I ain't got many cattle these days either old sport.
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Post by uz on Dec 15, 2011 11:48:00 GMT -5
Whatever works ... ;D this one is a beast.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 15, 2011 12:36:13 GMT -5
^ Fail Montenegro is not part of Serbia nor was it ever , strictly speaking. The majority of Montenegrins do not claim Serbian ancestry either , only 35% or so. The only real link Montenegrins have to Serbs is their religion which is mostly dominated by the Serbian Orthodox Church ( which counts any Orthodox slav in their sphere as ethnically 'Serb') though Montenegrins now are pushing for their own church. It seems highly likely that the Montes are Slavicized Albanians (inland) and Latin/Greek people(coast). For example in the Middle Ages in Dubrovnik's countryside ( Dubrovnik is the southern most city in Croatia) the Albanian language was spoken ( this would be Montenegro and Herzegovina). The customs they share are also well noted. Serbs had no noted presence in Montenegro until the 12th century when Orthodox Serbia decided to invade Catholic Montenegro, and won the religious war at least. It does border Serbia ( among other countries ) and there are Serbians of Montenegro racial ancestry not just the fact that they're Orthodox. I'm pretty sure it's more than 35 percent too.
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Post by dusko1 on Dec 15, 2011 12:50:03 GMT -5
I didn't say *all' Montes. Clearly there was a Greek/Latin speaking population there as well along the coast line. Still , you cannot deny the cultural continuity between Montenegro's hinterland and Northern Albania. Aside from language and some differences in religion , these are virtually the same kind of people. Montenegro is mixed just like any other Balkan land. No denying that Greeks, Romans & Illyrians were there before the arrival of Slavs. Have you been to Montenegro? You can see the admixtures within the people & not just in Monte but in all the ex-Yu lands & some neighbouring lands too. Just because Montenegro is next door to Albania doesn't mean we're all "slavicized Albanians". You might as well say the same for Serbia. What about some Albanians mixed with Slavic blood? It's all one big goulash ...LOL
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Post by srbobran on Dec 15, 2011 12:50:45 GMT -5
What they're origins are is irrelevant. Ethnicity is based on self perception not on bloodline and most historians agree (based on documents from that era like DAI) that Duklja was populated primarily by Serbs. What they identify as today is their own business and they have every right to identify as Montenegrins, but as far as history is concerned, they have been overwhelmingly identifying as Serbs up until the early 2000's.
Fun fact though, over 40% of Serbs inhabiting other regions (Sumadija, Herzegovina etc) are from Montenegro originally.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 15, 2011 13:18:02 GMT -5
Well yes, ethnicity is what you idenity yourself as racially is what your bloodline is.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 15, 2011 13:18:36 GMT -5
What they're origins are is irrelevant. Ethnicity is based on self perception not on bloodline and most historians agree (based on documents from that era like DAI) that Duklja was populated primarily by Serbs. What they identify as today is their own business and they have every right to identify as Montenegrins, but as far as history is concerned, they have been overwhelmingly identifying as Serbs up until the early 2000's. Fun fact though, over 40% of Serbs inhabiting other regions (Sumadija, Herzegovina etc) are from Montenegro originally. Right, so it's alot more than 35 percent. Lol.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Dec 15, 2011 16:18:13 GMT -5
^ Fail Montenegro is not part of Serbia nor was it ever , strictly speaking. The majority of Montenegrins do not claim Serbian ancestry either , only 35% or so. The only real link Montenegrins have to Serbs is their religion which is mostly dominated by the Serbian Orthodox Church ( which counts any Orthodox slav in their sphere as ethnically 'Serb') though Montenegrins now are pushing for their own church. It seems highly likely that the Montes are Slavicized Albanians (inland) and Latin/Greek people(coast). For example in the Middle Ages in Dubrovnik's countryside ( Dubrovnik is the southern most city in Croatia) the Albanian language was spoken ( this would be Montenegro and Herzegovina). The customs they share are also well noted. Serbs had no noted presence in Montenegro until the 12th century when Orthodox Serbia decided to invade Catholic Montenegro, and won the religious war at least. It does border Serbia ( among other countries ) and there are Serbians of Montenegro racial ancestry not just the fact that they're Orthodox. I'm pretty sure it's more than 35 percent too. So what if it borders Serbia? Serbia borders other countries as well , does this make those countries Serb or does it make Serbia , Romanian? Serb or Montenegrin is not a race so god knows what you're trying to say. They are both the same race as many other Indo-Europeans. And maybe 35% was being too generous. According to this : www.dailynewsmontenegro.com/montenegrin-census-results.html...only 28% of people in Montenegro claim to be Serb or of Serbian ancestry.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Dec 15, 2011 16:22:47 GMT -5
I didn't say *all' Montes. Clearly there was a Greek/Latin speaking population there as well along the coast line. Still , you cannot deny the cultural continuity between Montenegro's hinterland and Northern Albania. Aside from language and some differences in religion , these are virtually the same kind of people. Montenegro is mixed just like any other Balkan land. No denying that Greeks, Romans & Illyrians were there before the arrival of Slavs. Have you been to Montenegro? You can see the admixtures within the people & not just in Monte but in all the ex-Yu lands & some neighbouring lands too. Just because Montenegro is next door to Albania doesn't mean we're all "slavicized Albanians". You might as well say the same for Serbia. What about some Albanians mixed with Slavic blood? It's all one big goulash ...LOL I've been to Montenegro, yes. I didn't call everyone Albanian but there does seem to be a case for old Albanian ancestry among a lot of the slavic speaing Montenegrins because of their regional cultural continuity with which it only shares with Albanians. That doesn't mean everyone should feel Albanian or whatever today. That would be a dumb reason to since all of have ancestry going back somewhere which makes the whole human race cousins.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Dec 15, 2011 16:28:17 GMT -5
What they're origins are is irrelevant. Ethnicity is based on self perception not on bloodline and most historians agree (based on documents from that era like DAI) that Duklja was populated primarily by Serbs. What they identify as today is their own business and they have every right to identify as Montenegrins, but as far as history is concerned, they have been overwhelmingly identifying as Serbs up until the early 2000's. Fun fact though, over 40% of Serbs inhabiting other regions (Sumadija, Herzegovina etc) are from Montenegro originally. I agree with your view of ethnicity. Funny you mention Dioclea and the DAI. Find me where it talks about specifically Serbs in Dioclea. As far as I know it only makes some obscure comment about them in what is today Eastern Herzegovina and some parts of southern Dalmatia but nothing in Dioclea/Montenegro. As far as I know most Montenegrins have been refering to themselves as crnogorci for hundreds of years being distinct and separate from Serbia or other Slavic neighbors. A lot of Montenegrins called their language Serbian but they also called it Croatian ( especially in the north west Boka Kotorska bay). The only real strong claim Serbs have over Montenegrins is a religious one being that the Montenegrin orthodox christians belonged to the SOC. And its funny how you mention 'other regions' as if these are regions of Serbia or something lol. Montenegro has been a separate country since long before Yugoslavia with Serb and non Serb inhabitents as well as Herzegovina (BiH). Sumadija is a region of Serbia , Vojvodina is a region of Serbia , Montenegro and (Bosnia) Herzegovina are and were not and have an independent history. It's like a passive chauvinism on your part and you wonder why so many Montenegrins want to go their own path separate from Serbs now?
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 15, 2011 17:12:38 GMT -5
It does border Serbia ( among other countries ) and there are Serbians of Montenegro racial ancestry not just the fact that they're Orthodox. I'm pretty sure it's more than 35 percent too. So what if it borders Serbia? Serbia borders other countries as well , does this make those countries Serb or does it make Serbia , Romanian? Serb or Montenegrin is not a race so god knows what you're trying to say. They are both the same race as many other Indo-Europeans. And maybe 35% was being too generous. According to this : www.dailynewsmontenegro.com/montenegrin-census-results.html...only 28% of people in Montenegro claim to be Serb or of Serbian ancestry. You are rude and ignorant. You just have to be right even when you're wrong. Every Serbian I have spoken to has had Montenegrin ancestry and I have spoken to four Serbs in my life. Alot more than Croats or Romanians. How many Romanians have Montenegrin ancestry or Croatians have Montenegrin ancestry. It is alot more exclusive to Serbia. And it is not 28 percent it's at least 40 percent.
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