The Kardashev Scale and 7 levels of civilization!! Dec 29, 2011 13:04:44 GMT -5
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2011 13:04:44 GMT -5
Taken from this link ( illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=alternativetheories&action=display&thread=32357 ) and posted again regarding Kardashev Scale and 7 possible levels of civilizations.
1st issue: I can see that one side you are well read. I dare to say that you are also intelligent on one side and emotional on the other. It appears that emotions override intelligence since they have capacity to blind one infected by them. I notice your resort to belittling opinions of other that you do not approve of (ex. "potheads", "puny brains" in your above post). I wonder why would you want to resort to such, I will call it, tactics if you are indeed trying to alter ones perception and sway it in your direction. Resorting to such tactics makes people defensive and thus also emotional and creates a mental black to whatever ideas you are trying to project. Bottom line is that I do believe that you are intelligent enough to realize that and hopefully improve the manner in which you express your opinions.
2nd issue: From the latest research ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy ) it appears that there are 170 billion observable galaxies ("Typical galaxies range from dwarfs with as few as ten million stars, up to giants with a hundred trillion stars" which makes an average galaxy t have at least 50 billions of stars). Now if we calculate 170 billion with 50 billion we are getting numbers practically unimaginable to human mind (closest known comparison is infinity --- and this is all known universe insofar). From such practically infinite numbers how can one state that there is no life outside our own solar system, they can not possibly have such data (therefore they can only express their emotions about such subject). How can I state that there is .. easy... we are living on a planet that has life. Therefore were are an example. Given the proper distance from the star in such practically infinite number of stars certainly there can easily be millions (if not billions) of stars where life is doable if not existent. There can be easily tens of thousands of planets where life forms are at least as advanced as ours if not far more. Certain top scientists (like Hawkins en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking ) state that they almost certainly exist. He states that if they (aliens) are capable of reaching us (earth) from far distances (closest starts to us are still light years away which in human time is still over 10,000 years for each light year) that, technologically speaking, comparing us to them is like comparing us to ants (where ants could be in the middle of superhighway but still not be aware of it). Hawking has issued warnings that humans should not attempt contact for our own good and that we should pray that we are alone.Existence and nature of extraterrestrial life
Hawking has indicated that he is almost certain that alien life exists in other parts of the universe and uses a mathematical basis for his assumptions. "To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational. The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like." He believes alien life not only certainly exists on planets but perhaps even in other places, like within stars or even floating in outer space. He also warns that a few of these species might be intelligent and threaten Earth. Contact with such species might be devastating for humanity. "If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans," he said. He advocated that, rather than try to establish contact, man should try to avoid contact with alien life forms.
Alien Civilization Types From 1 To 7
What could an alien civilization be able to do? Well, as we have not found any alien civilizations then everything is guesswork based on the laws of physics and our experiences here on earth. This could be completely wrong or it could be completely right or it could be somewhere in between. It is great jumping into the future and theorizing but the time involved in moves from type to type in some cases is enormous and unless we start living forever, a little off putting to say the least.
The Kardashev scale ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale ) is a method of measuring how advanced a civilization could be. It relies on energy consumption of the whole civilization and then applies it to the universe. As you might have guessed a bloke called Kardashev, a Soviet Russian astronomer, thought of it in 1964. It sounds a little out of date but is still a good idea and today SETI, science fiction writers and futurists use it.
Type 0 Civilization.
You can probably guess that our poor old civilization or should I say new civilization is in this category. We’re basically a day old child not even being able to walk yet. Most of our power use is from natural resources, oil, gas and coal which as we all know we can’t win renew. We are only just thinking about using solar power, geothermal power, wind power and similar. Our civilization is around 0.73 on the civilization scale and slowly climbing, I wonder if we get a present when we reach type 1 status.
There is speculation that we will reach type 1 civilization status in 100 to 200 years. It’s all big jumps and achievements that move a type 1 civilization up the scale after this. As we rise up through the civilization types we begin to learn more and more and move up the scale exponentially. Remember that it took over 3000 million years for humans to evolve to this state today (and what a state).
The Kardashev scale covers from levels 1 to 3 and just covers energy used. SF goes further and puts some detail in so the following is a best guess. If anyone is in contact with a type 7 then please let me know and I’ll edit the post.
1 The discovery of fire.
2 The development of stone tools.
3 The industrial revolution.
4 The technological expansion of the 19th century to the 20th --century.
5 Nuclear weapons and fission power.
6 Achievements from the late 20th century to the early 21st century.
7 Fusion power and Space elevators.
8 Up to the Type I technological break point, with either civilization --destruction or survival.
Controls the energy of an entire planet. This civilization can control the weather, can prevent earthquakes. Though advanced, a Type I civilization still faces danger of extinction by natural disasters such as comet impacts.
Advancing from type 1 to type 2 civilization could take about 1000 years exponentially. To put it another way, the more you know the more you can know. Currently, the total sum of human knowledge roughly doubles every 10 years.
(2nd pic)A Dyson Ring — the simplest form of the Dyson Swarm — to scale. Orbit is 1 AU in radius, collectors are 1.0×107 km in diameter (~25× the Earth–Moon distance), spaced 3 degrees from center to center around the orbital circle.
1 Near space industry and colonization.
2 Asteroid mining.
3 Planet Mining for fuels and energy.
4 First Interstellar travel.
5 Culture Orbital.
6 Ringworld ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld#Ringworld_engineering ).
7 Construction begins on Dyson Sphere ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere ) or Alderson disk ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderson_disk ) .
8 Civilization extends to the entire Solar System.
9 One nation without boundary's on earth.
Controls the energy of an entire star. It has the ability to directly mine a star. This civilization will have completely explored its own star system and will have established a number of colonies in neighboring star systems. The energy factor mastered by a Type 2 civilization is about a 10 billion fold increase over that controlled by Type 1. A Type 2 civilization is virtually immune to extinction.
A relatively simple arrangement of multiple Dyson Rings of the type pictured above, to form a more complex Dyson Swarm. Rings' orbital radii are spaced 1.5×107 km with regards to one another, but average orbital radius is still 1 AU. Rings are rotated 15 degrees relative to one another, around a common axis of rotation.
1 Dyson Sphere completion, where a star is totally or partially --enclosed to gather the suns energy.
2 Creation of the nearest star colony.
3 Star lifting, where stars are mined for raw materials.
4 Colonization of the nearest 100 stars.
5 Star Trek type civilization. Perhaps but then again perhaps not.
Controls the energy of an entire galaxy, show offs. Such a civilization can manipulate space-time and possesses almost godlike powers. It would be threatened with extinction only by the death of the universe itself (and even this might be avoided). Energy mastery for a Type 3 civilization marks a 10 billion-fold increase. There begins to be events and things we don’t understand at this level and onwards.
1 Space time manipulation control of the energy output of*galactic --supercluster ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_supercluster ) .
2 Star Wars type civilization (debatable).
3 Ability to survive the end of the Universe.
4 Controls the whole galaxy and has controlled it for millennia.
Extra-dimensional beings but not Gods although they may seem like it to type 0 . The Star Trek character Q ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_%28Star_Trek%29 )would fit into this category. There is possible harnessing of Dark Energy.
Energy control over the entire universe. Such a civilization approaches or surpasses the limits of speculation based on current scientific understanding, and may not be possible. Frank J. Tipler’s Omega point ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_J._Tipler#The_Omega_Point ) may occupy this level.
Energy control over multiple universes, a power level that is technically infinite. The civilization may have gained the ability to alter physical laws across multiple universes. These civilizations can escape a dying universe, and thereby become eternal, it is possible that less advanced civilizations can do so as well.
This would be a God or a deity, able to create universes at will, using them as an energy source, and a large one at that. Type 7 though is well beyond the stage of understanding that humans can incur beyond a technological singularity.
The above skills are reliant on the energy produced by the civilization but there could be other ways of classifying steps in our evolution into the universe. Information available to the civilization could be used and has been suggested by Ray Kurzwell ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzwell ) .
As you might have guessed, we cannot understand alien civilizations we can only dream about what they would be like. Therefore some people argue that the above types of civilization may not actually occur and future development might occur differently.
There may also be unique conditions on Earth that allow quicker development (or slower development perhaps) than the civilizations forming around us. There could be lots of unique things about the earth from the tilt to the Moon producing tides and it’s protection from asteroids, comets, and radiation.
The existence of these types of civilizations may be incorrect considering the little we know about the universe. It’s a good start though. Let’s hope there is a party every time we advance a civilization type.
third 'law' is interesting to point out.Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:
1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; when he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
One possible reality of the so called 'Gods' is something along the lines of bellow character.
Q (Star Trek)
Q is a fictional character who appears in the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager, as well as in related products. In all of these programs, he is played by John de Lancie.
Q has omnipotent powers, and is continually evasive regarding his motivations. His home, the Q Continuum, is accessible to Qs or on the rare occasions permitted, and the true nature of it is said to be beyond the comprehension of "lesser beings" such as humans so it is only shown to humans in ways they can understand.
Beginning with the pilot episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Q became a recurring character, with pronounced comedic and dramatic chemistry between himself and Captain Jean-Luc Picard. Gene Roddenberry chose the letter "Q" in honor of his friend, Janet Quarton. The name "Q" also applies to all other individuals of the Q Continuum as well.
Q in the guise of "God" in "Tapestry"
Q is a mischievous, threatening, omnipotent being who has taken an interest in humans. Q's power is limited only in that he cannot overcome others in the Q Continuum. He can stop death, create life, travel through time, stop time, multitask/create multiple versions of himself and create entire worlds effortlessly. He can change a person's mind or make them take any action.
Q's mercurial personality switches between camp joking and deadly threats. While boastful, condescending, and threatening, he arguably has humanity's best interests at heart, as seen in The Next Generation series finale, "All Good Things...", in which he causes Jean-Luc Picard to shift through chronological periods, giving him a chance to save humanity. In his portrayal of Q, John de Lancie used Lady Caroline Lamb's description of Lord Byron as "mad, bad and dangerous to know" as his inspiration. Q most often appears as a human male dressed in a Starfleet uniform with Captain's rank.
PS: And these are capacities of the so called type 4. Now image they all exist and then imagine the capacities of higher types such as 5,6, and 7.