Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 13, 2012 9:03:49 GMT -5
what's the point of all this? what are we talking about here? One day they were living in the Ottoman empire next day Greece.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jan 13, 2012 16:04:04 GMT -5
Ignorance or perversion of history betrays the novel view was heard, that great heroes of 1821 and subsequent national competitions were Albanians.
Confused with the Arvanites, the Greek Arvanitophone. Another, however, Albanians and other Arvanites. There is a big difference.
Marco Botsaris, in whose memory many wicked, were Greek Arvanitophone like everyone Souliotes.The Greek conscience seen in the famous phrase said when he go to the Ionian Islands: "The Greeks cant feel free where waving the British flag.". And the dictionary he wrote was Arvanit - not Albanian -Romeik Greek simple (Modern). Besides, it could be Albanian national consciousness, as this appears only in 1878 with the League of Prizren - Kosovo and even as artificial construct of foreign forces and religious propaganda. According to the Ottomans. The inhabitants of today's Albania based on the religion. The Romaioi were Orthodox, integrated in the same genus with the other Greeks. The Muslim Turks felt, hence the term Turk-Albanians. If we speak Albanian participation in the Greek Revolution should not be talking to Botsaraious, and Koundouriotis.The Ottomans used the Turkalbanians to massacre the Greeks.
Our Byzantines ancestors did not mention Albanians in the Balkans. Constantine Porphyrogenitus called Albanians a tribe of the Caucasus.
George Kastrioti - Skanderbeg, considered a national hero of today's Albanians called themselves Orthodox from Epirus (15th century).In documents of the Serene Republic of Venice in the late 15th century the word "Albanian" interpreted "Greeks from Epirus and the Peloponnese" without questioning the Greek conscience.
The Albanian consciousness is certainly outlandish concoction as evidence and testimony of their own parties, which was recorded by a contemporary eminent Balkans experts Achilles Lazarus.
When Italy and Austria-Hungary for their own reasons for trying to build Albanian state to control the entrance of the Adriatic, the Turk-Albanians rises in Durres the Ottoman flag!
They preferred the Turkish despite unknown to them Albanian national consciousness. Besides, the Balkan wars of the Muslims of Albania fought, and even dynamically, the ranks of the Ottoman army. After 1908, many members of the Young Turks designed and launched the persecution of the Greeks were Turk-Albanians. The word Albania, means White Country from the Latin Alba: white. It is a geographical term and not ethnological importance.
The term Arvanitis on the Souli, the Hydra, Spetses and the many residents of Mesogeion come from completely different roots. Specifically the word Arvanitis from"Arvanon" name of Northern Epirus, which is found as early as the 11th century in the texts of Anna Comnena. From Arvanon, namely Greek Northern Epirus, went to cities and islands of Southern Greece Greek-speaking populations Arvanitika. Arvanitika that is a mixed dialect of ancient Greek, Roman, Turkish and Slavic components. The Arvanitophone Greeks never had a different consciousness than the other Greeks. A similar example gives the Slav-speaking Macedonian Freedomfighter Kotti, Cyrus Ntalipis and others who fought for Greece against Bulgarian guerilla.And the Turkish-speaking Orthodox of Cappadocia, which lasted through the church if their Greek national consciousness and lost the Greek language. Our typical offer evidence that the Balkans during the last five centuries at least the Orthodox faith - and religion in general - shaping the national consciousness far more than the dialect. Anyway, Arvanitika as we call it, is still preserved in some areas. Arvanites from Greece say that the language was just a leftover from the Ottoman times.
The confusion between the words of Albania and Albanians created only in Greek, because they seem to resemble the two words sound. The similarity is only superficial. In fact very different. Besides themselves Albanians call themselves Skipetar and home skipper: land of the Eagle. What the public can have a Skipetar and a Greek-Arvanitophone? Perhaps one can understand some words from another. But this does not mean that they have the same national consciousness .Do not forget that Serbs, Croats and Bosnians just speak the same language, nevertheless clashed with each other with dire consequences.
I respect and appreciate the efforts of politicians and journalists to limit any signs of racism and xenophobia - even though the roots of the problems have not been studied properly - in our society. But something is not done and ignore the distortion of historical truth. Let us know well our history to the Greeks and Arvanites to honor the national supply and the neighboring Albanian people to maintain good neighborly relations, while not forgetting our Greek Northern Epirus and the Greek community there...
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
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Post by rex362 on Jan 13, 2012 16:14:39 GMT -5
nice read ...buts its full of kaka
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
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Post by atdhetar on Jan 13, 2012 16:22:36 GMT -5
what's the point of all this? what are we talking about here? One day they were living in the Ottoman empire next day Greece. well, they practically created greece, just another one of those tidbits of information which you so innocently omit
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as
Membrum
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Post by as on Jan 13, 2012 19:28:27 GMT -5
If a family moves from Nigeria to England, then thier children will grow up in an English one, not a Nigerian one that is not assimilation, that is integration. its not the same, arvanites were not immigrants, they had lived in those lands for centuries and generations in their own communitties. Ok what is the majoirty culture of the lands in Greece? Greek. Therefore the Albanians imigrated there at some point in thier history. Only with the Ottoman state this assimilation was halted
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as
Membrum
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Post by as on Jan 13, 2012 19:29:59 GMT -5
One day they were living in the Ottoman empire next day Greece. well, they practically created greece, just another one of those tidbits of information which you so innocently omit Yes yes, and then willingly gave up Albanian identity to become Greek. Really? if they were so brutally assimilated how come they didn't rise up? surely if they created the Greek state they bring it down?
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 13, 2012 19:36:59 GMT -5
Nice post Kartadolofone.
Our Byzantines ancestors did not mention Albanians in the Balkans. Constantine Porphyrogenitus called Albanians a tribe of the Caucasus.
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punisher
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JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL
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Post by punisher on Jan 14, 2012 6:26:46 GMT -5
Nice post Kartadolofone. Our Byzantines ancestors did not mention Albanians in the Balkans. Constantine Porphyrogenitus called Albanians a tribe of the Caucasus.dude how come then that we albanians have the original phenotype(dinaric) like all illyrians had,and don't say we mixed with them bcs that's not true.if we came in such a late time to the balkans the illyrians were already extinct but then how de we have such non caucasus features. i have the answer for you and that is the ILLYRIANS ARE TODAYS ALBANIANS
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jan 14, 2012 10:24:47 GMT -5
How do you explain the Latin in our language
How you you explain Homeric tongue in our language
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Kanaris
Amicus
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 14, 2012 12:59:04 GMT -5
Adopted them and through a national process of 'illyriazation' thats been going on full steam since Hocha... that starts at the subconscious level of Albanian schoolchilren... much like the Fyromians are doing now..
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punisher
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JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL
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Post by punisher on Jan 14, 2012 13:29:10 GMT -5
Adopted them and through a national process of 'illyriazation' thats been going on full steam since Hocha... that starts at the subconscious level of Albanian schoolchilren... much like the Fyromians are doing now.. what about us kosovalbs we weren't under hoxha's regime and we also have all those features
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Kanaris
Amicus
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 14, 2012 13:51:22 GMT -5
What stopped commie Albanians from communicating with commie Albanians in Kosovo?
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punisher
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JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL
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Post by punisher on Jan 14, 2012 14:11:46 GMT -5
What stopped commie Albanians from communicating with commie Albanians in Kosovo? the heavily secured border filled with soldiers
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jan 14, 2012 14:16:02 GMT -5
Adopted them and through a national process of 'illyriazation' thats been going on full steam since Hocha... that starts at the subconscious level of Albanian schoolchilren... much like the Fyromians are doing now.. \ then in that case greks did also in 1830 case closed ! btw so far I have close 17 cases already ----REXMAN & Golman & Swietz & Associates
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Kanaris
Amicus
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 14, 2012 14:45:09 GMT -5
REXMAN & Golman & Swietz
The jews were against the greeks during the ottoman empire. Now they have soften ... they are the only witnesses to the Greeks... Watch out the truth will come out, books are being printed as I type this.
The Greeks of 1821 needed a head nogging just to come to their senses after 450 years of ottoman occupation... not the same..
The Greeks of the diaspora did not have the same problem ..and that is one issue you haven't addressed.
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
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Post by atdhetar on Jan 14, 2012 17:45:22 GMT -5
What stopped commie Albanians from communicating with commie Albanians in Kosovo? it is amazing how much power and influence hoxha had over the countless foreign authors, so much so in fact that he exerted his influence 200 years before he was born.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 14, 2012 17:57:47 GMT -5
The foreign authors work with already flawed local material... and most of the books on Albanian history are opinion based.. Most of them start with the words... "the history of Albanians is shrouded in mystery but we can deduce from what we read that..blah blah blah.." You know that I am right...
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Post by laughinglions on Jan 14, 2012 18:54:36 GMT -5
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 14, 2012 19:05:19 GMT -5
Nice to see you back.
Get to the part...
"There is some disagreement in relevant dichotomies"
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on Jan 14, 2012 19:16:37 GMT -5
The foreign authors work with already flawed local material... how do you know that? how can you be so confident of that? are you familiar with the entire plethora of local and international work done on albanians? i just want to know what makes you so competent, what research you have done in that field of study that gives you the right to make a bold statement like that...just curious where you base you assumptions that the whole body of work that foreign authors used was flawed local material from the communist era when most foreign albanologists conducted their work in the pre-communist era? as far as i know there is a science out there called lingustics which traces origins of people, but i'm sure you have your own infallible methods which bewilder the best of historians and lingusts alike. like i've told you before, you are in dire need of education on the matter, you are dangerously under-read, are you honestly telling me that those thousands of authors sat down and based their work on hearsay and wrote down their opinions? well listen, you are obviously greek, you have a few villas in qios, you have a business, you have sound finances, you might have employed a couple of albanians to work for you....so you're obviously right and i can't question your devine right to be right on account of being greek. on top being greek hence right at all times, you display unrivalled logic and you ooze education, you obviously know your shit is all i am saying here.
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