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Post by uz on Apr 4, 2012 18:24:05 GMT -5
I don't even care if I am hated (nice swing tho you missed), your the attention whore remember. You'll get a clap when you come back here with some new "golden" material found online. Good luck to you.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Apr 5, 2012 16:52:01 GMT -5
just the words of "Illyrian & Thracian" /Ilir & Thrac is enough in todays Albanian to tell anyone what they stem from
keep it simple
Ilir -->Free
Ilirjan----> free they are
Thrac ----> scream/yell
Thracjan ----> the loud ones /yellers they are
case closed
a freebee ......MA KE DHON / MA KE DHEN ....also simple todays Alb
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paul
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Post by paul on Apr 6, 2012 2:10:42 GMT -5
I didnt ask for special treatment only for people to be mature but i see you and some others cant help being primitive idiots because of your weak identities. I only learn here and now that some Albanians are so sensitive when someone wants to have deep discussion about their language, maybe im in the wrong forum to look for civilized Albanians. It wasnt a statement it was opinion.
Its a fact that 1054 was the official split, did people use seperate Orthodox and Catholic identities before 1054?
I didnt decide thats what the evidence shows.
Yes i did go back to previous pages.
I will mention my observations thats my right and this is free place to discuss issues i dont care what you think about me.
Wrong but dont care because dont need to explain my education to you. So what thats what people need to do if making claims. If you know little how can you be sure that its ancestor of Albanian? Reality Dysfunction and Groet gave good links and info that supports some Albanian views but you started ok then behave like some other Albanians here with complex. If you dont want to discuss with me then dont but i will continue research about this because im interested. Our difference is only I think some things in Albanian language are possible Illyrian but you think most things in Albanian language are Illyrian, this is not denial of Illyrian heritage from me because even scholars say that Albanian has lot of influences.
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paul
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Post by paul on Apr 7, 2012 13:05:18 GMT -5
Thats not true there are at least 2 sources that mention similar Albanian migration, I dont agree with everything they mention but there must be reason why they mention the story of Albanians coming from western lands where had different mixed influences like byzantine, latin, arab and norman.
Attalates/ the people who had once been our allies and who possessed the same rights as citizens and the same religion, i.e. the Albanians and the Latins, who live in the Italian regions of our Empire beyond Western Rome, quite suddenly became enemies when Michael Dokenianos insanely directed his command against their leaders
Celebi/ When the blessed Omar conquered Jerusalem, Jabal could not remain any longer in that place, so they boarded ships and took refuge with the king of Spain. Jabal-i Alhama was given the mountains of Dukat, Progonat and Frengis in the Albanian regions of Avlona and Delvina to live in, which were then under Spanish rule. These lands were previously uninhabited and, within a short period of time, he settled them and, mingling with the Franks, they created the Albanian language from a mixture of Frankish and Arabic
People from invasions in balkans usually adopt byzantine culture so such traces are hard to find for others too and there is no traces for big Slavic invasion also. On its own its not enough because theres small linguistic evidences. I didnt say split just happened overnight but 1054 was official date and if you dont believe me then you need to take a book not me, and you should also stop speaking like rude peasant.
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 7, 2012 16:40:32 GMT -5
Thats not true there are at least 2 sources that mention similar Albanian migration, I dont agree with everything they mention but there must be reason why they mention the story of Albanians coming from western lands where had different mixed influences like byzantine, latin, arab and norman.
Attalates/ the people who had once been our allies and who possessed the same rights as citizens and the same religion, i.e. the Albanians and the Latins, who live in the Italian regions of our Empire beyond Western Rome, quite suddenly became enemies when Michael Dokenianos insanely directed his command against their leadersCelebi/ When the blessed Omar conquered Jerusalem, Jabal could not remain any longer in that place, so they boarded ships and took refuge with the king of Spain. Jabal-i Alhama was given the mountains of Dukat, Progonat and Frengis in the Albanian regions of Avlona and Delvina to live in, which were then under Spanish rule. These lands were previously uninhabited and, within a short period of time, he settled them and, mingling with the Franks, they created the Albanian language from a mixture of Frankish and ArabicPeople from invasions in balkans usually adopt byzantine culture so such traces are hard to find for others too and there is no traces for big Slavic invasion also. On its own its not enough because theres small linguistic evidences. I didnt say split just happened overnight but 1054 was official date and if you dont believe me then you need to take a book not me, and you should also stop speaking like rude peasant. So, which parts specifically do you agree with?
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paul
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Post by paul on Apr 8, 2012 1:47:40 GMT -5
I agree that there was settlement of mixed people in Albania that come from western lands because i think its too much for coincidence for the 2 sources to mention similar event like that. These were maybe mixture of latin, norman and arab people which was situation in south Italy and other close areas round that time and later produce hybrid language like Maltese. Im not trying connecting Maltese to Albanian because i dont see any special similarities, but i do notice a possible hybrid similarity because Maltese and Albanian use soft and rolled sound for letter R. This maybe coincidence again im not saying its fact just observation. Imo whoever this mixed people was that settled in Albania mustve contributed something to shaping Albanian language. I dont agree with the Jabal story i think this is just some fancy story told to Celebi by Albanians to connect with muslim heros. But at same time i think this fancy story is base on earlier story connected with events told by Attalates.
What is your thought on these 2 sources?
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 8, 2012 11:34:29 GMT -5
I agree that there was settlement of mixed people in Albania that come from western lands because i think its too much for coincidence for the 2 sources to mention similar event like that. These were maybe mixture of latin, norman and arab people which was situation in south Italy and other close areas round that time and later produce hybrid language like Maltese. Im not trying connecting Maltese to Albanian because i dont see any special similarities, but i do notice a possible hybrid similarity because Maltese and Albanian use soft and rolled sound for letter R. This maybe coincidence again im not saying its fact just observation. Imo whoever this mixed people was that settled in Albania mustve contributed something to shaping Albanian language. I dont agree with the Jabal story i think this is just some fancy story told to Celebi by Albanians to connect with muslim heros. But at same time i think this fancy story is base on earlier story connected with events told by Attalates. What is your thought on these 2 sources? I am replying in two posts so that it doesn't turn into a giant wall of text. PART 1. Your thinking is getting a little sloppy, Paul. It wasn’t good enough for us to say “hey, there must be some reason why all these scholars are saying that the Albanian language and people are descended from the Illyro-Thrakians”; you asked for evidence, for proofs and for more examples after examples. And we did a good job of putting the case forward. Shejtani, Groet and Donnie gave you many specific examples and I myself gave you a few pages worth of scholarly linguistic articles on Albanian as a paleo-Balkan language. Did you think my sources were bad or invalid for some reason? So, now you can understand why it’s nowhere near enough for you to say “hey, there must be some reason why they mention the story of Albanians coming from Western lands”. Maybe that’s enough to convince some people, but I gotta say I’m very far from being even remotely convinced, especially given the sources. Let’s start by looking at your first source, the byzantine lawyer and historian, Michael Attaliates, who basically gives us a very un-clear picture. First, he may not even be talking about the ethnic Albanians but it could be a reference to the Normans of Sicily. Even accepting that he was talking about the Albanians, all he is saying is that they were Christians serving in the army, and they took part in a revolt. There is nothing there that says they were a migrating people, there is nothing about them settling in Albania, there is no mention of their native lands beside the vague “western lands” – what was the land? Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Western Isles? Arabia? Maybe even more importantly, there is no mention of their numbers, which being part of an army couldn’t have been more than a few thousands. Do you really believe that a few upstart regiments of Albanians could colonize a stretch of land right on the Adriatic against the empires of Slavs, Bulgars, Italians and Byzantines?
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 8, 2012 12:05:45 GMT -5
PART 2: Now, let me lift up the larger quote from Celebi, the traveling 17th century entertainer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evliya_%C3%87elebi#Life Before we go any further, the question you have to ask yourself is how did the author come to know what he is telling us? So, what did Celebi living in 17th century know about the origins of the Albanians which must at least date back to the 10th and 11th centuries? Why does no one else say the same thing? Or, do you have another source that confirms him? Anyway, this is the larger context in which he is writing: """" The mausoleum of Jabal-i Alhama, ancestor of the Albanian people. He is buried in the [...] park in a place called [...] outside the city of Elbasan. All the Albanians visit the grave, claiming him as their ancestor. Over a long period they have placed large stones on his grave. An account of his life was given in an earlier chapter. Now, because he is buried here, we would like to write in more detail about his adventures. Jabal-i Alhama himself was of the Quraysh tribe and a companion of the Holy Prophet. He took part in the Muslim expeditions of Tabuk, Uhud, Tabut (?), Khaybar, and Badr-i Hunayn. He also fought in other battles and was a courageous Arab chieftain and ghazi who offered the Holy Prophet the heads and tongues of many prisoners. Later, during the caliphate of the blessed Omar, he put out the eye of an Arab sheikh, either wilfully or by accident. The Arab sheikh, holding his gouged eye in his hand, went to Omar and said: "Oh Omar, it is my right under the law of the Holy Prophet to demand the eye of Jabal-i Alhama for my own." They summoned Jabal who, when asked about the matter, replied, "Oh Omar, it is the eye of an Arab of my own tribe. I put it out." His confession was recorded in the Shari'a register, and it was ordered that Jabal's eye be put out in accordance with the definitive Koranic verse in surah [...] (5:45) "And We prescribed for them a life for a life and an eye for an eye." Unwilling to comply, on the grounds that "There should be no shame" ('ar-na-bud), Jabal-i Alhama fled with his entire clan to the emperor of Byzantium, Heraclius. He settled in the Jabaliyya mountains and that is why these mountains bear his name.When the blessed Omar conquered Jerusalem, Jabal could not remain any longer in that place, so they boarded ships and took refuge with the king of Spain. Jabal-i Alhama was given the mountains of Dukat, Progonat and Frengis in the Albanian regions of Vlora and Delvina to live in, which were under Spanish rule. These lands were previously uninhabited and, within a short period of time, he settled them and, mingling with the Franks, they created the Albanian language from a mixture of Frankish and Arabic. The place they originally inhabited, and where they still reside after many generations, is now called the mountain of Kurvelesh (Quryelesh), since they are descended from the Quraysh tribe of the Arabs. Accordingly, the Albanian people boast that they are from the Quraysh, the companions of the Prophet. Although Jabal-i Alhama died as a Muslim and was buried at this site according to his last will and testament, some of his descendants intermarried with the treacherous Franks and became Frankish and bookless themselves. The Albanians of Kelmendi, Montenegro and the mountains of Kurvelesh and Progonat and [...] became infidels and people without the book. They do battle day and night with the Muslim Albanians, who are their own kinsmen, and take one another prisoner. Many Albanians had abandoned their faith before the arrival of Mehmed the Conqueror. Later, when the Ottomans conquered Shkodra, Ulcinj, Bar, Lezha, Durrës, Berat, this fortress of Elbasan, Vlora and Delvina, all of Albania once again converted to Islam. Only the infidels of Kelmendi, Montenegro, Kurvelesh and some other mountain ranges continue to resist, saying, "God forbid that Jabal-i Alhama should have converted to Islam." In the Tuhfa history, however, it is written that he did become a Muslim. Even when he fled in shame because of the gouged eye and when he was staying with the Emperor Heraclius, he refused to join his own emperor in battle when the Prophet's companions attacked the infidels and cut off their heads, but secretly aided the Muslims. Later, when he joined Constantine, he refused to assist the Christians in the battle of Antioch against the Arabs. For this reason, the Albanians claim that Jabal-i Alhama was a companion of the Prophet and that he died a Muslim. In short, Jabal-i Alhama of the Quraysh tribe is the ancestor of the Albanian people. At the time of the caliphate of the blessed Omar, he populated Albania. His descendants, be they bookless infidels or bookish Muslims, are a race of militant ghazis, brave warriors and clever souls."""""" Wow, I am not sure what to say (but I'll try)!!! First of all, the Spanish Empire never in history has had a hold in Albania. The Roman Empire - Yes; Hellenic colonies - Yes; Byzantine Empire - yes; Bulgarian khanate and the Slavic Dusan empire - Yes; Goth raiders and Norman crusaders - Yes; Ottoman Empire - Yes. Spanish Empire - NOT EVER. (Except a couple hundred Jews who escaped the Spanish Inquisition). Second, the territory of what is now Albania has been continuously populated, and certainly populated without interruption along the very important coastlines. The area Celebi is describing is the area around the very important port of Vlora (Aulona, Avlona, etc), with its its towns and villages of Orikum (ancient Orico) and the villages of Dukat, Radhim, Terbac, etc. This is where Caesar landed his legions in the harbor of Orico/Orikum when he was playing civil war with Pompey. carolynperry.blogspot.com/2010/06/caesar-and-pompey-in-albania.htmlThere is no way these areas you are describing were unpopulated, just sitting there ripe for the Arabs taking. If anything, I can tell you first hand that Slavs have been here, which is why to this day there are two little rivers here called "izvor" and "sirotic/a" (both Slavic words for water streams, words still in use by the local villagers). Care to give a shot at something else?
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Post by groet on Apr 8, 2012 13:12:52 GMT -5
Attalates and Celebi had no clue and are nothing to rely on in any way. None of them can be counted as sources on Albanian migration into the Balkans either as they're basically just giving off their (wrong) version of history on the origin of Albanians; they never document it, they just share their theories, which have no basis.
Celebi speaks of some very far-out legend about Jabal-i Alhama settling in Albania and starting the Albanian ethnos, Jabal-i Alhama is never mentioned in any existing documents; he's a legend, a creation of an imaginative mind.
Attalates' document is very vague and it only mentions Albanians living to the West, not that they came from the west; it's very vague and confusing.
RD gives a much longer reply and explains more than I do, those sources have already been refuted imo. Using those sources is really just grasping for straws.
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Post by clodia on Apr 9, 2012 2:20:12 GMT -5
Hi Paul, Have you read John Wilkes' book The Illyrians? He favours the theory that modern Albanian is descended from the Illyrians. In particular he looks at toponyms. If his work is not in enough detail, his bibliography might help. Good luck with your research.
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paul
New Member
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Post by paul on Apr 9, 2012 7:21:28 GMT -5
Hi Clodia thanks for that i have read that book and was very good he gives arguments from both sides and fair research bout Illyrians but dont think he favours any theories.
Maybe I made mistake assuming that “hey, they must know why scholars are saying that and what they base opinion on” like i say before maybe i come to wrong place was hoping to find Albanians with real knowledge bout Illyrian language origin instead i find most Albanians feeling insulted by normal questions on DISCUSSION website and react as primitives by attacking person asking questions.
Nobody mention Albanians in balkans after Ptolemys Albanoi tribe but after Attalates mention Albanians bout 1000 years after there is regular mention of them in balkans. This is more then just coincidence imo, im not saying Attalates Albanians were ethnic maybe they were just Normans and Latins who gave Albanian name to region.
I dont know but some Normans did settled in Albania and become clans like Maniakates so maybe Attalaates Albanians were just Normans who add new element to region.
He travelled thru Albania and heard story from Albanians he even says all Albanians visit Jabals grave and claim him as ancestor.
I dont know, how many other travellers recorded stories from Albania before him? Why does no one else say anything about Illyro-Albanian connection before Thunmann? Theres many not answered questions bout your origins and theres different opinions. Why do you think reason is for Celebis story? I dont know i dont care and am not relgious, my roots is from balkans but i was born and lived as child in north balkans so not close to Macedonia or Albania sorry to disappoint your detective skill.
There good but at same time they show unclear and not consistent details and opinions bout Albanian language origins. I will show some examples from one of your links/
Most information shows that Albanian language did not develop in Illyria but closer to where proto Rumanian developed and the exact place like much else is not certain. Do you agree with your link and that Albanian did not develop in Illyria?
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paul
New Member
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Post by paul on Apr 9, 2012 11:38:40 GMT -5
They were normal questions i dont have attitude problem and i didnt insult Albanian people or nation not even once. Youre upset because i dont agree with everything you say as if i have to agree with your views when even scholars have different opinions so only thing youve done is show immaturity like most other Albanians here. Im not one of them people who hates Albanians ive always have Albanian friends and none of them respond the way some primitives did here, instead you and others become defensive like i have anti Albanian agenda when all i want is to learn more about your views and discuss different scholars opinions, im allowed to also have opinion i am not zombi to just accept your opinion without questions this is real world not communist dream where everyone has same opinion.
Not everyone dont speak for rest many of them that respond were rude and useless. The sources others give were good enough but theres no hard conclusions about direct Illyrian or Thracian origin and so i keep looking, maybe i wont find here but its up to me how I spend time and if you dont like it dont have to respond.
Thats wrong i only mention them because your friend pretends like there is no source which talks of Albanian migration. I said at start that i dont agree with everything they say and that it might not even be connected with ethnic Albanians but you ignore this and jump to attack just because i mentioned them.
Is fugazi Italian loanword in Albanian or you watch Donny Brasko too much?
I think most people that read this will think im person asking normal questions and starting deep discussions and got insulted and attacked by rude people who dont feel secure bout their own identity. I never force my opinion on anybody but if i dont agree with opinion of Albanians like you i am attacked, very civilized congratulation to all you who were rude for nothing, lucky im normal person and wont let you change my opinion of other Albanians who are good civilized people.
Thats wrong again i never call Albanian nation primitives i only call them individual people who behaved rude as primitives and i dont care what there ethnic roots is because a primitive is primitive doesnt matter what nation.
If your insults to me is reaching out then dont reach out because i dont need to be treated like that for having own opinion and maybe one day when you stop acting like Celebis story dont exist you will make opinion bout why Albanians tell this story to him. Scholars are only sure that Albanian developed outside Illyria because of Romanian connection and Albanian isnt connected to Thracian language structure, so still big questions bout this are there and obviously is too much for people like you to understand or accept. If is proved tomorow that Albanian comes directly from Illyrian or Thracian or from somewhere else i will be happy because makes my research easier but until then i will keep researching and hope to avoid rude ultra nationalist people with closed mind.
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 9, 2012 11:52:47 GMT -5
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paul
New Member
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Post by paul on Apr 9, 2012 12:02:30 GMT -5
Good movie.
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 9, 2012 12:46:49 GMT -5
I broke into xha Rex's stash to bring you this. I see your Celebi and I raise you:
"The Albanians are generally considered to be the most ancient ethnic group in Southeastern Europe. They are the descendants of pre-Hellenic stock that was pushed back into the mountains of the western Balkans by the Hellenes and the Slavs. In this respect the Albanians may be compared to the Celts of the British Isles who were forced into the mountains of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland by the Anglo-Saxon invaders. The Albanian language is organically distinct from the neighboring Slavic and Greek languages in the same manner that the Celtic language is different from the Germanic".
The Balkans since 1453, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, Traian Stoianovich, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, 2008, p. 496-497
"They are strewn with the wreckage of dead Empires – past Powers – only the Albanian "goes on for ever." - Edith Durham
"The Albanians call themselves Skipetars (Sons of the Mountain Eagle) and are recognized by ethnologists as a pre-Balkan people, perhaps being the descendants of the Pelasgians and Illyrians of primitive history".
^Economic conditions in Albania, Maxwell Blake, United States. Bureau of Foreign and Domestic Commerce, Govt. print. off.,1923, p. 1
"Historical evidence links present-day Albanians directly with the Illyrians, Trojans, Thracians, Dalmatians and the ancient tribes of Epirus. Despite all the efforts of politically committed researchers over past few decades, it is difficult to dispute this proposition."
Yugoslavia and after: a study in fragmentation, despair and rebirth, David A. Dyker, Ivan Vejvoda, Longman, 1996, p. 236
"The Albanians are descendants of the ancient Illyrians. who lived in central Albania Europe and migrated southward to the Gulf of Arta in northern Greece by the beginning of the Iron Age".
The New Encyclopaedia Britannica: Volume 1, 2005 The ancestors of the Albanians were the ancient Illyrians, who dwelled along the eastern coast of the Adriatic Sea, from Epirus as far north as Panno- nia. The Greek geographer of the second century ad, Ptolemy, mentioned an Albanian tribe with a city Albanopolis. The name of these Albanians was in the eleventh century extended to the rest of ancient Illyrians. This people was called in Greek, Albanoi, Arbanoi, or Albanitai, Arbanitai; in Latin, Arbanenses or Albanenses; from the Latin or Roman from comes the Slavonic Arbanasi, in modern Greek Arvanitis, in Turkish Arnaut.
[History of the Byzantine Empire, 324-1453, Volume 2 By Aleksandr Aleksandrovich Vasilʹev,1952 p. 613
The Illyrians were a group of tribal peoples who inhabited present- day Albania, the former Yugoslav republics, ... The only modern descendant of the Illyrian group of languages is Albanian.
World and Its Peoples, 2009, p. 1602
The Albanians are probably an ethnic outcropping of the Illyrians. They were an ancient Balkan people who intermingled and made war with the Greeks, Thracians, and Macedonians before succumbing to Roman rule around the...
Encyclopaedia of the Muslim World - Page 39
Taru Bahl, M.H. Syed - 2003
The original home of the Dorians before they appeared in Thcssaly and Doris is by many thought to have been Illyria.The ancients thus associated Hellenic origins with Illyria. The Illyric type par excellence to-day is the Albanian.That the Albanians of Upper Albania have been in their present habitat since before the memory of man...
The annual of the British School at Athens: Issue 16, British School at Athens, British School at Athens. Managing Committee - 1910
"Albanians, however,are one of southeastern Europe's oldest inhabitants. It is believed that they descended from the Illyrians, who in a series of migration waves settled in what is now Albania around 1200 BC". (Greece, Zoran Pavlović, Charles F. Gritzner,2006, Page 46
"Illyrian has survived. Geography has played a large part in that survival; for the mountains of Montenegro and northern Albania have supplied the almost impenetrable home base of the Illyrian-speaking peoples. They were probably the first occupants, apart from nomadic hunters, of the Accursed Mountains and their fellow peaks, and they maintained their independence when migrants such as the Slavs occupied the more fertile lowlands and the highland basins. Their language may lack the cultural qualities of Greek, but it has equalled it in its power to survive and it too is adapting itself under the name of Albanian to the conditions of the modern world."
Migrations and invasions in Greece and adjacent areas, Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond, 1976, p.163:
Albanians originate from Illyrians, one of the indigenous peoples of the Balkan Peninsula. They are the descendants of the Illyrian tribes that, living in isolated mountain areas, although to some extent Romanized under the rule of the ancient Rome, avoided assimilation to the Slavs invading the area sometime during the seventh century.
(The rule of law in comparative perspective, Mortimer Sellers, Tadeusz Tomaszewski – 2010, p.202)
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 9, 2012 12:51:16 GMT -5
Neighbors to the Greeks are the speakers of the Thraco-Illyrian group, today represented only by Albanian. They number over 5 million and reside mainly in Albania, Kosovo province in Yugoslavia, and western Macedonia. A scattering of Albanian villages can also be found in southern Italy, Crna Gora, and Greece. In the main, contiguous Balkan area of Albanian speech, a dialect net survives, mutually unintelligible in extreme forms. One of the northern, or Tosk dialects, has become the standardized form of the language. The ancestral Thraco-Illyrian group, belonging to the Eastern Indo-European division, perhaps orgniated in the Maritsa Valley of Bulgaria, but the ancient geographical development remains poorly understood. Apparently, the Thraco-Illyrian speakers evolved at some point into a mountain people, diffusing through the Stara Planina and Rodopi range. This may have happened as early as the time of the Black sea flood. They went as mountain folk over into Illyria, in the Dinaric range, the present seat of the Albanian language. Eventually, Thraco-Illyrian died out altogether in the eastern Balkans, and modern Albanian occupies a refuge unlike that of Celtic".
(The European culture area: a systematic geography By Terry G. Jordan-Bychkov, Bella Bychkova Jordan, 2002, f. 132-133
The Balkans, 1815-1914, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, 1963, p. 6:
"Thus today the descendants of these Illyrians, known as the Albanians, occupy only a small mountainous area along the southern Adriatic coast".
Macedonia, its people and history, Stoyan Pribichevich, 1982, p. 45:
"It is the prevalent view that the Albanians are direct descendants of the Illyrians, though they may partly come from the ancient Thracians or even the prehistoric Pelasgians".
Eagles in cobwebs: nationalism and communism in the Balkans, Paul Lendvai,1969, p. 28:
"Yet modern Albanians are the oldest inhabitants of the Balkans, the descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who in the fifth century bc were mentioned by the Greeks as inhabiting the peninsula together with the Thracians".
Peace handbooks, Great Britain. Foreign Office. Historical Section, George W. Prothero, 1973, 7:
"It is now generally believed that the modern Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians and Thracians of classical times, and that to this source may be traced those singular elements in their language which distinguish it so markedly..."
Harvard Slavic studies: Volume 1, 1953, p.365:
"...the Albanians (descendants of the aboriginal Illyrians and Thracians)".
The International geographic encyclopedia and atlas, Houghton Mifflin Company,1979,p. 14:
"The Albanians are reputedly descendants of Illyrian and Thracian tribes". Balkan Background, Bernard Newman, 2007, p.231:
“Albania is the youngest country of the Balkans, but its people are the oldest. They are probably the descendants of the ancient. Thracians and Illyrians; their language, despite infusions of words from neibhbouring races, is quite unlike any other Balkan tongue. At one time they occupied the whole of the Southern Balkans, and were a vigorous and dynamic people: Alexander the Great is claimed to have been of Albanian origin. Gradually they were encompassed in their present home, much as the Basques were crowded into their Biscayan corner, by the tribes surging from the east; or as the remnants of the British tribes were pushed westwards into the mountains of Wales”.
Australian Slavonic and East European studies: journal of the Australian and New Zealand Slavists' Association and of the Australasian Association for the Study of the Socialist Countries, Volumes 4-5, 1990, p. 200:
"The oldest surviving inhabitants are the Albanians, descendants of*group of peoples known as the Illyrians, the Thracians and the Dacians".
‘The ALBANIANS. – The Albanian people are descended from the most ancient of all the races in the Balkan peninsula; their language is the oldest language spoken in Europe” A SCHOOL HISTORY OF THE GREAT WAR by ALBERT E. McKINLEY PG. 27
‘Albania is an ethnically homogeneous society. Albanians have for centuries been the dominant ethnic group and today constitute about 95% of population... Albanians are seen as a single ethnic group. Albanians may be descended, at least in part, from the Illyrians who settled in the region some 4.000 year ago...’ ETHNIC GROUPS WORLDWISE by DAVID LEVINSON Pg 8 (1998)
‘The country is ethnically very homogenous: 98 percent ot its inhabitants are ethnic Albanians, descended from the Illyrian and Thracian tribes” ALBANIA by Gloria La Cava, Raffaella Nanetii, pg 20 (2000)
‘Thus the Illyrians and Dacians were able to retreat into the mountains at the time of the Slavic invasions and reatin their identities as Albanians and Vlachs.’ THE EARLY MEDIEVAL BALKANS BY John Van Antwerp Fine pg
Ikmosnacajkartsitepër,okplako!
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on Apr 9, 2012 14:43:02 GMT -5
i felt bad for all you guys that had all the best intentions to educate a bottom-feeder like this douchebag paul, took me about 2 lines to size up this tosser, it was apparent from the get go what his objective was, kindly plant the seed of doubt into our belief system with his far fetched outlandish theories about the origins of albanians.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Apr 12, 2012 0:38:26 GMT -5
listen the ancient tribes of Epirus were all of Hellenic stock. make a full stop after "individual patient" and delete the above text. !! this is unhistorical what you do ...
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on Apr 12, 2012 2:19:40 GMT -5
you couldn't string three words together now you're giving people grammar advice? how many people share this nickname anyway?
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Post by realitydysfunction on Apr 30, 2012 0:19:54 GMT -5
Corpus Linguistics Beyond the Word: Corpus Research from Phrase to Discourse By Montclair State University. Dept. of Linguistics, American Association of Applied Corpus LinguisticsGrammars in Contact : A Cross-linguistic Typology: Explorations in linguistic typology ; Oxford University Press. 2007. eBo.
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