rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 26, 2012 15:13:03 GMT -5
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 26, 2012 16:06:36 GMT -5
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Aug 26, 2012 16:45:26 GMT -5
1) These Liburnians were practically italic culture amd spoke italic language and very Akin to ancient Venetes and again Italic Histrians. In others words they have nothing in common with todays Albanians. BTW they are amazing in ship building.
2) Southerns Illyrians were on the other hand fully Hellenic in culture, language and religion. They have nothing in common with Albanians, certainly not in language.
3) Albanians seem to appear historically speaking after Norman (Crusader) invasion of todays central Albania in I believe 1180's. Austrian 'historians' (after Berlin congress in 1878 in their quest to expand further into Balkans after loosing possessions in NE Italia and losing influence in Germany after Italian and German unifications) manufactured tales of supposed Albanian Illyrian origins. They wanted to create a new Albanian identity and create a nation between Greeks and Serbs that could be used in their own plans towards expansion. THis idea also suited Italians as well as Germans whom both helped in this propaganda. Albanians in retrospect remain and enigma. Most likely scenario is fusion between Normans, Slavs, Greeks, romanized locals, elements from Caucasus (arrived with Normans) which later was greatly influenced by Ottomans (culturally and religiously). This amalgam later created what is today known as Albanians.
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Post by bowandarrow on Aug 26, 2012 17:06:44 GMT -5
Today's Dinarics are found all over the Balkans not just Albania.
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Post by uz on Aug 26, 2012 17:12:45 GMT -5
Cool stuff, but Albanians cannot be credited for the Liburnia Warship. The engravement itself probably killed half the value of that compass, if not more.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Aug 26, 2012 17:24:13 GMT -5
The Liburnian language is an extinct language which was spoken by the ancient Liburnians, who occupied Liburnia in classical times. The Liburnian language is reckoned as an Indo-European language, in the Centum group. Alternative speculations place it on the same Indo-European branch as the Venetic language or on a separate branch.
No writings in Liburnian are known. The only Liburnian linguistic remains are Liburnian toponyms and some family and personal names in Liburnia, in Latinized form from the 1st century AD. Smaller differences found in the archaeological material of narrower regions in Liburnia are in a certain measure reflected also in these scarce linguistic remains. There are three groups of names: one in northern Liburnia structurally similar to those of Histri and Veneti; another linked to the Dalmatae, Iapodes and other Illyrians; and a third group of names common throughout Liburnian territory. Names of local deities also had different regional distributions, while toponyms, in both structure and form, show more diversity and wider dispersion, like Pre-Indo-European (Mediterranean), Indo-European and local features.
This caused many speculations about their language. Due to a certain similarities, Géza Alföldy has concluded that Liburni and Histri belonged to Venetic language area,[1][2] while Jürgen Untermann has linked only Liburnians at the eastern Istrian coast to Veneti,[3][4] and R. Katičić included them to the North-Adriatic language area[5] before he has finally stated that they had been separate entirety, ethnically and by language.[6] S. Čače has noted that appurtenance of the Liburnian language to the North-Adriatic area rather than to Iapodes and Dalmatae is hard to prove due to scarce remains.[7]
The Liburnians were essentially different to Histri and Veneti, culturally and ethnically, seen especially in burial tradition, by which they were the closest to Dalmatae. Liburnian language developed on the Indo-European basis, but strong traditions were dragged from the Pre-Indo-European times, which is especially noticed in their social relations, undoubtly related to their separate cultural development, territorial isolation and ethnical integration and features.[8][9][10]
The grouping of Liburnian with Venetic is based on a part of the Liburnian onomastics. In particular, some Liburnian anthroponyms show strong Venetic affinities, with common or similar names and a number of common roots, such as Vols-, Volt-, and Host- (<PIE *ghos-ti-, "stranger, guest, host"). Liburnian and Venetic names also share suffixes in common, such as -icus and -ocus.
These features set Liburnian and Venetic apart from the Illyrian onomastic province, though this does not preclude the possibility that Venetic-Liburnian and Illyrian may have been closely related, belonging to the same Indo-European branch. In fact, a number of linguists argue that this is the case, based on similar phonetic features and names in common between Venetic-Liburnian on the one hand and Illyrian on the other.
The Liburnians were conquered by the Romans in 35 BC. The Liburnian language eventually was replaced by Latin, undergoing language death probably very early in the Common era. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburnian_language
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Aug 26, 2012 17:27:57 GMT -5
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 26, 2012 17:32:53 GMT -5
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 26, 2012 17:39:25 GMT -5
then the Roman larger version
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 26, 2012 17:46:01 GMT -5
1) These Liburnians were practically italic culture amd spoke italic language and very Akin to ancient Venetes and again Italic Histrians. In others words they have nothing in common with todays Albanians. BTW they are amazing in ship building. 2) Southerns Illyrians were on the other hand fully Hellenic in culture, language and religion. They have nothing in common with Albanians, certainly not in language. 3) Albanians seem to appear historically speaking after Norman (Crusader) invasion of todays central Albania in I believe 1180's. Austrian 'historians' (after Berlin congress in 1878 in their quest to expand further into Balkans after loosing possessions in NE Italia and losing influence in Germany after Italian and German unifications) manufactured tales of supposed Albanian Illyrian origins. They wanted to create a new Albanian identity and create a nation between Greeks and Serbs that could be used in their own plans towards expansion. THis idea also suited Italians as well as Germans whom both helped in this propaganda. Albanians in retrospect remain and enigma. Most likely scenario is fusion between Normans, Slavs, Greeks, romanized locals, elements from Caucasus (arrived with Normans) which later was greatly influenced by Ottomans (culturally and religiously). This amalgam later created what is today known as Albanians. "These features set Liburnian and Venetic apart from the Illyrian onomastic province, though this does not preclude the possibility that Venetic-Liburnian and Illyrian may have been closely related, belonging to the same Indo-European branch. In fact, a number of linguists argue that this is the case, based on similar phonetic features and names in common between Venetic-Liburnian on the one hand and Illyrian on the other." its all pelasgian/etruscan to me besides .....Iapydes, Liburnians, Liburnia, Dalmatae, Tariotes of the adriatiks LIBURNIANS were a people who at different times were prominent on the Adriatic coasts. They were originally, one cannot doubt, one of the homogeneous Illyrian tribes (see It.t.val.k). Living in a barren rocky country along the north-eastern coast of the Adriatic, they devoted themselves to the sea, and were the chief navigators of the Adriatic in the early period. They settled on the coast of Picenum, where the town of Truentum was always counted Liburnian ; and the Greek colonists found them at Corcyra and other places. They were pressed on all sides by other races, but were still a powerful people in the time of Scylax (Scyl., p. 7). The islands that lay along the coast were peopled by them and called by their name. They were a race of pirates, who used swift boats with a large sail. These Liburnian ships became famous when the Romans adopted them in several of their naval wars. The heavy and lofty ships that had been developed by the later Greek states proved unequal to the light and swift Liburnian boats. The country was incorporated by the Romans in the province of Dalmatia. Read more: Liburnians - Adriatic www.libraryindex.com/encyclopedia/pages/cpxlb511jg/liburnians-adriatic.html#ixzz24hCTO1yj
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 23:19:59 GMT -5
Rex may I ask you something? Is a boat that important?
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Post by valmir on Aug 27, 2012 9:31:55 GMT -5
Wow rex, This is just so beautiful. Can that thing be bought somewhere ?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 27, 2012 11:24:21 GMT -5
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 27, 2012 11:30:06 GMT -5
Rex may I ask you something? Is a boat that important? yes it is .....can you imagine a world without any boats/ships ?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 16, 2014 11:50:01 GMT -5
1) These Liburnians were practically italic culture amd spoke italic language and very Akin to ancient Venetes and again Italic Histrians. In others words they have nothing in common with todays Albanians. BTW they are amazing in ship building. 2) Southerns Illyrians were on the other hand fully Hellenic in culture, language and religion. They have nothing in common with Albanians, certainly not in language. 3) Albanians seem to appear historically speaking after Norman (Crusader) invasion of todays central Albania in I believe 1180's. Austrian 'historians' (after Berlin congress in 1878 in their quest to expand further into Balkans after loosing possessions in NE Italia and losing influence in Germany after Italian and German unifications) manufactured tales of supposed Albanian Illyrian origins. They wanted to create a new Albanian identity and create a nation between Greeks and Serbs that could be used in their own plans towards expansion. THis idea also suited Italians as well as Germans whom both helped in this propaganda. Albanians in retrospect remain and enigma. Most likely scenario is fusion between Normans, Slavs, Greeks, romanized locals, elements from Caucasus (arrived with Normans) which later was greatly influenced by Ottomans (culturally and religiously). This amalgam later created what is today known as Albanians. Remember this ....when you think Italic /Latin you must think Albanians .... its not the Latin in Albanian but the Albanian in Latin And remember this ...this forum is called "Illyria Forum" ....so respect it
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