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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Dec 5, 2012 4:46:36 GMT -5
Even today the distribution of the name Basarabă (the original form) corresponds with the XIV-th century distribution and it's far from the areas settled by the Cumans. In fact there were no areas settled by the Cumans in Romania although it was to be expected some Cuman leftovers in Galaţi, Brăila, Vrancea and Buzău counties. nume.ottomotor.ro/ro?search=basaraba&type=text
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Post by Ceanglid Desdemon on Dec 5, 2012 15:54:00 GMT -5
Yes, a Romanian ethnicity during the Middle Ages, and a principality called Tara Rumaneasca that conquered Dobrogea from the Ottoman Turks. Heu lame! ;D Vlachos onlei written Old Boulgarian dourinc Medium Ages! When Vlachos begain utilisen "Tara Romaneasca", Magellanus alreadie uere circumnavigatur mundi. Vlachos only conquere terrae uen bacc stabbinc: uen Boulgarus lord Ivanko feichtinc Tourki, Vlachos dux occupied Dobruccia. Same uen occupied secundum time, uen Tourki feichtinc Tamerlanes. Vlachos are all thieves, as Moldaviae chronicum saie: "Laslau craiul ungurescu dupa izbanda cu noroc ce au facut, de rasipi pre cei tatari si sa aseza la scaunul sau, sfatuitu-s-au cu boierii sai, ce vor face cu acei talhari ce-i adusa intr-ajutoriu de la imparatul Ramului, cu carii mare izbanda facusa, de rasipise puterea acelor tatari; ca sa le dea loc si ocine in tara, nu suferiia cei de loc si de mosie, ungurii, vazandu-i ca sunt niste oameni rai si ucigasi, socotindu ca de sa vor plodi si sa vor inmulti, ei sa vor intari si candai sa nu li sa prilejasca vreo price cu dansii, sa nu pata mai rau decat cu tatarii, mai apoi sa nu le fie a piierde si craiia. Ce le-au ales loc pustii si salbatec, ingradit cu munti pinprejur, intre Tara Lesasca si intre Tara Ungureasca, unde sa chiama acum Maramorosul. " "Laslau Hungarian king after winning a victory with luck and scattered the Tartars and sat in his chair, took counsel with his nobles, what will they do with those thieves who have brought in help from the emperor of Rome, with great achievement made, and those Tartars have wasted power, to give place and possession in the land, did not accept local Hungarians, seeing that they're bad people and murderers, thinking that if they make children and will multiply they will harden and when you will have quarrel with them, do not get hurt worse than the Tartars, then lose the kingdom. What they chose desolate and wild place, surrounded with mountains all around, between Polish Country and Country Hungarian, where he now calls Maramorosul."
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Dec 6, 2012 3:28:42 GMT -5
That's not from a chronicle, that quote is an annotation to the Grigore Ureche's chronicle. It was made by some monks who wrote no facts, but some sort of gossips and slurs which are very odd IMO. They were criticized even by their contemporaneous like Miron Costin who wrote just like that „what those monks wrote are not history but slurs” „că célelalte ce mai suntŭ scrise adăosături de un Simeon Dascalul și al doilea, un Misail Călugărul, nu létopisețe, ce ocări suntŭ”.
It is worth adding that those two monks point as a source for their annotations a certain lost Hungarian chronicle „létopisețul cel ungurescu”, so we can safely say that Hungarians are frustrated idiots for some time now.
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Post by amateurs on Dec 6, 2012 4:40:43 GMT -5
TA, is that you?
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kun
Membrum
Posts: 52
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Post by kun on Dec 8, 2012 9:04:34 GMT -5
Cumania aws wallachia... Thocomer, by name apparently a Cuman warlord (also known as Tihomir, he might have been a Bulgarian noble), was possibly the first one to unite the Vlach states from the west and the east of the Olt River, and his son Basarab is considered the first ruler of the united and independent Wallachia. This interpretation corresponds with the general view of the situation of the Romanian lands in the 11th century, with the natives living in collections of village communities, united in various small confederacies, with more or less powerful chiefs trying to create little kingdoms, some paying tribute to the various militarily dominant nomadic tribes (see Romania in the Middle Ages).
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Dec 8, 2012 12:44:03 GMT -5
That's fantasy, not history. The father of Basarab, Thocomer, is mentioned only in one Hungarian document which says something like „Basarab, son of Thocomer, the schismatic and unfaithful Wallachian Voivode etc.”. Those are all the informations about Thocomer. All we know about that guy is that he was the father of Basarab. Most likely the name was Tihomir and that's because the name Tihomir (of Slavic origin) was attested being used by Romanians in the Middle Ages. From that piece of information to imagining that Tihomir was a Cuman warlord or Bulgarian that united the Vlach lands? There's no information whatsoever about the life of that guy. So he was Cuman or Bulgarian or Martian, anything but Romanian? That's not history, it's fiction. Basarab it's not the only historic personality explicitly mentioned by contemporaneity as being Wallachian (which, I have to repeat, is the exonym for Romanian) that is claimed by our Mongolian neighbors to be anything else but Romanian. That only shows your fabric.
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Post by amateurs on Dec 8, 2012 13:43:05 GMT -5
On the other hand, there are plenty of sources mentioning the Asens as being Vlachs.
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kun
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Post by kun on Dec 8, 2012 15:34:53 GMT -5
That paragraph was taken straight outta wiki, denying unbiased sources proves only one thing...you're some stupid adolescent who can't distinguish between facts and fantasy. You have no business talking about history, you make all Romanians look dumb.
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kun
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Post by kun on Dec 8, 2012 15:40:53 GMT -5
Did you used to be called anitta or something? I recalled yrs ago happening on some forum this anitta continually arguing with Bulgarians and Hungarians and getting his ass throttled.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 9, 2012 7:54:29 GMT -5
Battle of Baia wasnt really won by vlachs, it was either a draw or cancelled. There were significent loss on both sides, even the vlach suffered alot that they had to withdraw. Then how come the eastern romance language is quite different to that of romanian? Apart from large borrowing from Albano-vlach language? Aromanian is very much different with Romanian. Nah mate, where the hell you get that the australian culture is vulgar and racist? Are you still living like 200-300 years back without being aware that australia is very much a multi-cultural nation composed of hundreds and hundreds of different ethnic groups and races that living there, still speaking the own language and practicing their own culture freely? Its only recent that the australian government, federal police and romanian police had found out that there was a bunch of vlach gangs infiltrated into australia scamming money from the australian citizens. They done this by putting a card scimmer inside the ATM machine everywhere. Everyone knows this, it was in the front page of our famous australian newspaper about the romanians are theives, living in romania on australian citizen's money they withdraw from their account. Even Novi the serb knows this. And you telling me about australia being racist? looool ;D An international wrestling champion nicknamed 'The Carpathian Bear' was among 16 people detained as police busted a Romanian syndicate accused of the biggest theft of credit card data in Australian history.
The Australian Federal Police say computer hackers in Romania got access to 100 small retail outlets in Australia.
They allegedly stole the details of about 30,000 Australian cards and used the information to buy goods worth more than $30 million.
The joint operation by the AFP and Romanian National Police saw 200 police raid 36 properties across Romania this week.
Police detained 16 people, including international martial arts and Greco-Roman wrestling champ Gheorghe 'The Carpathian Bear' Ignat, before arresting seven.
Ignat, who was not among those arrested, allegedly travelled to Australia in recent years.
The AFP says agencies in 13 other countries were involved in the 18-month investigation.
Police say the details of up to 500,000 Australians were vulnerable to the gang. Audio: AFP help bust credit card fraud syndicate (AM)
Australian banks and credit unions have reimbursed the losses.www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-29/afp-uncovers-romanian-card-hacking-scheme/4397954
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Post by amateurs on Dec 9, 2012 16:39:32 GMT -5
Listen, you dumb dingo, Eastern Romance is a branch of Vulgar Latin that evolved in the eastern part of the Roman Empire. From that branch evolved Romanian and Aromanian. Eastern Romance is a branch, it's not a language that you can compare to Romanian. You dumb fvck, why do you even bother?
Battle of Baia was won by us, your one-quorter Vlach king got injured thrice and ran like a little pussy. He would've run to Australia and pretended he was a Turkic moron, if he could, but he was stuck in these parts.
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Post by greenemperor on Dec 14, 2012 3:59:13 GMT -5
Tatos was most likely a Pecheneg. I don't think Tatos was a Pecheneg. www.kroraina.com/bulgar/wolff_2.htmlIf the invading Pechenegs had to get his approval in order to cross the Danube that shows he probably wasn't a Pecheneg himself.
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Post by Ceanglid Desdemon on Dec 14, 2012 6:51:04 GMT -5
Vlachos historiens verey stupides. But ye agreem Iorga: Stephanus Athleta Christi non Vlachos fui, becouse he kicke Vlachos land dux arsses multiple times. Per logica Iorgam, Stephanus moust hafe been Polonum. ;D
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Post by greenemperor on Dec 14, 2012 20:50:23 GMT -5
Vlachos historiens verey stupides. But ye agreem Iorga: Stephanus Athleta Christi non Vlachos fui, becouse he kicke Vlachos land dux arsses multiple times. Per logica Iorgam, Stephanus moust hafe been Polonum. ;D Stephen invaded Wallachia because Moldova and Wallachia were divided into separate states at that time. There's no evidence that the Pechenegs had anything like an organized state. Also, they were nomadic hunters and raiders, they didn't grow wheat and millet.
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Post by greenemperor on Dec 15, 2012 16:26:36 GMT -5
Romanians created the Second Bulgarian Empire when the Vlach Asen brothers revolted against the Byzantines. Also, a lot of the early Bulgarian kings had Latin names such as Paganus and Sabinus, which suggest that Romanians were already giving them rulers. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 16, 2012 5:55:06 GMT -5
Eastern europe and Balkans encountering peoples from the east is something that goes way back and happened many times..Scythians...Huns, Jasyges, Penchenegs, Avars,Cumans... etc and yes many of these peoples assimilated into eastern europe...the Avars spent 200 years there before merging with the Slavs and eventually assimilating into Croats and other south Slavs. regions within todays Romania were referred to as Cumania... The Cumans were nomadic warriors of the Eurasian steppe who exerted an enduring impact on the medieval Balkans. The basic instrument of Cuman political success was military force, which none of the warring Balkan factions could resist. As a consequence, groups of the Cumans settled and mingled with the local population in various regions of the Balkans. The Cumans were the founders of three successive Bulgarian dynasties (Asenids, Terterids, and Shishmanids), and the Wallachian dynasty (Basarabids)."[4] They also played an active role in Byzantium, Hungary, and Serbia, with Cuman immigrants being integrated into each country's elite. In alliance with the Bulgarians and Vlachs[6][7] during the Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion by brothers Asen and Peter of Tarnovo, the Cumans are believed to have played a significant role in the rebellion's final victory over Byzantium and the restoration of Bulgaria's independence (1185). The Cumans were allies with Wallachia and Bulgaria emperor Kaloyan in the Bulgarian-Latin Wars.The Cumans who remained east and south of the Carpathian Mountains established a country named Cumania, in an area consisting of Moldavia and Walachia. The Hungarian kings claimed supremacy on the territory of Cumania, among the nine titles of the Hungarian kings of the Árpád and Anjou dynasties were rex Cumaniae.In addition, toponyms of Cuman language origin can be found especially in the Romanian counties of Vaslui and Galaţi, including the names of both counties.and also The latest book by Neagu Djuvara has caused a stir in Romania's academic world. In it, the 91-year-old historian maintains that the founders of Wallachia in the 13th and 14th centuries were not descendants of the Romanised Dacians, but were of Cuman origin.
"For two centuries, our historiography has been obsessed with continuity, permanence and immobility, a narrow and static vision," says the author in his book, Thocomoerius, the Black Ruler: a Voivode of Cuman Origin at the beginning of Wallachia. "What created the new Europe, the one after the Roman Empire, was an ever moving history consisting of successive migratory waves."
The Romanian voivodeships (principalities) are the indirect result of one such wave, he suggests. The Cumans, a nomadic Turkic people, migrated westwards and established a strong presence in present-day Moldavia and Wallachia. Defeated by the Mongols at the Battle of Kalka (1223), they took refuge in Hungary, while some crossed the Danube into the Balkans.
Many place names in the region -- including Kumanovo in Macedonia and Comanesti in Romania -- reflect Cuman influence. Surnames derived from the word "Cuman" include that of famed gymnast Nadia Comaneci.
In Djuvara's view, the Cuman role in Romanian history was far more important than has been acknowledged. The theory is not altogether new, but his book provides an impressive array of evidence to support it. setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/blogreview/2007/09/07/blog-03
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Post by greenemperor on Dec 16, 2012 11:46:27 GMT -5
Eastern europe and Balkans encountering peoples from the east is something that goes way back and happened many times..Scythians...Huns, Jasyges, Penchenegs, Avars,Cumans... etc and yes many of these peoples assimilated into eastern europe...the Avars spent 200 years there before merging with the Slavs and eventually assimilating into Croats and other south Slavs. regions within todays Romania were referred to as Cumania... The Cumans were nomadic warriors of the Eurasian steppe who exerted an enduring impact on the medieval Balkans. The basic instrument of Cuman political success was military force, which none of the warring Balkan factions could resist. As a consequence, groups of the Cumans settled and mingled with the local population in various regions of the Balkans. The Cumans were the founders of three successive Bulgarian dynasties (Asenids, Terterids, and Shishmanids), and the Wallachian dynasty (Basarabids)."[4] They also played an active role in Byzantium, Hungary, and Serbia, with Cuman immigrants being integrated into each country's elite. In alliance with the Bulgarians and Vlachs[6][7] during the Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion by brothers Asen and Peter of Tarnovo, the Cumans are believed to have played a significant role in the rebellion's final victory over Byzantium and the restoration of Bulgaria's independence (1185). The Cumans were allies with Wallachia and Bulgaria emperor Kaloyan in the Bulgarian-Latin Wars.The Cumans who remained east and south of the Carpathian Mountains established a country named Cumania, in an area consisting of Moldavia and Walachia. The Hungarian kings claimed supremacy on the territory of Cumania, among the nine titles of the Hungarian kings of the Árpád and Anjou dynasties were rex Cumaniae.In addition, toponyms of Cuman language origin can be found especially in the Romanian counties of Vaslui and Galaţi, including the names of both counties.and also The latest book by Neagu Djuvara has caused a stir in Romania's academic world. In it, the 91-year-old historian maintains that the founders of Wallachia in the 13th and 14th centuries were not descendants of the Romanised Dacians, but were of Cuman origin.
"For two centuries, our historiography has been obsessed with continuity, permanence and immobility, a narrow and static vision," says the author in his book, Thocomoerius, the Black Ruler: a Voivode of Cuman Origin at the beginning of Wallachia. "What created the new Europe, the one after the Roman Empire, was an ever moving history consisting of successive migratory waves."
The Romanian voivodeships (principalities) are the indirect result of one such wave, he suggests. The Cumans, a nomadic Turkic people, migrated westwards and established a strong presence in present-day Moldavia and Wallachia. Defeated by the Mongols at the Battle of Kalka (1223), they took refuge in Hungary, while some crossed the Danube into the Balkans.
Many place names in the region -- including Kumanovo in Macedonia and Comanesti in Romania -- reflect Cuman influence. Surnames derived from the word "Cuman" include that of famed gymnast Nadia Comaneci.
In Djuvara's view, the Cuman role in Romanian history was far more important than has been acknowledged. The theory is not altogether new, but his book provides an impressive array of evidence to support it. setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/blogreview/2007/09/07/blog-03How many Cuman words in the Romanian language? None. I don't think played a significant part in Romanian history. If they did, they were a minority.
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