rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 10, 2012 20:05:45 GMT -5
sorcelow, i was part of a team that administered that census, i happened to be there at the time, i can assure you there is no correletarion between the two things, people in the south didn't even bother with the census and there was wide calls by aleanca kuq e zi to boycott the census. by our rough estimates, the number of people that claim greek ancestry does not exceed 50k, and minoritars knew that, that's why many of them refused to participate. why was AKZ wanting boycott ?? bcs of the asking in census of religion ??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 21:57:31 GMT -5
Three Hundred Thousand Greeks living in what now is known as 'Albania'. The Greeks have been living there since antiquity; the Albanians entered the area at a much later date; 11 Century AD onwards. Actually the thirteenth century, right after the black death
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 11, 2012 9:50:24 GMT -5
Three Hundred Thousand Greeks living in what now is known as 'Albania'. The Greeks have been living there since antiquity; the Albanians entered the area at a much later date; 11 Century AD onwards. you get ur history at sunday morning mass do ya?
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 11, 2012 9:55:33 GMT -5
sorcelow, i was part of a team that administered that census, i happened to be there at the time, i can assure you there is no correletarion between the two things, people in the south didn't even bother with the census and there was wide calls by aleanca kuq e zi to boycott the census. by our rough estimates, the number of people that claim greek ancestry does not exceed 50k, and minoritars knew that, that's why many of them refused to participate. why was AKZ wanting boycott ?? bcs of the asking in census of religion ?? Mainly because of ak and inclusion of religion but also the socialists and well respected historians called for a boycott
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2012 16:55:55 GMT -5
There is a fault to this census...In 1989 apparently there were no Greeks in the Vlore area even though there are roughly 10,000 of them, the government did not acknowledge them... You pay a 1,000 dollar fine to switch your nationality in the 2011 census from the 1989 one...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 15:17:19 GMT -5
?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 13, 2012 15:45:49 GMT -5
There is a fault to this census...In 1989 apparently there were no Greeks in the Vlore area even though there are roughly 10,000 of them, the government did not acknowledge them... You pay a 1,000 dollar fine to switch your nationality in the 2011 census from the 1989 one... as far as I know ......back in 1989 there was no fear of anything of claiming to be another nationality in Albania back then ...as a matter of fact Enver Hoxha took care of the few real greeks in parliment back then (like now ) better be answered by Atdhetari or Albanians from Albania about this
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 16:40:29 GMT -5
How can there be only 200 greeks in vlore?
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 13, 2012 17:49:06 GMT -5
There is a fault to this census...In 1989 apparently there were no Greeks in the Vlore area even though there are roughly 10,000 of them, the government did not acknowledge them... You pay a 1,000 dollar fine to switch your nationality in the 2011 census from the 1989 one... well there are no greeks in vlora city and sorrounding areas but with the inclusion of himara and all those other villages in the wider municipality area in recent times those numbers jumped up, those numbers are mega inflated by those fraudsters that claim to be greek in order to get a pension, there are nowhere near 10k, i reckon around 4-5k with himara making up the bulk of those numbers, one thing to note is that the greek minoritars have left in their droves for greece and that's why the numbers are far worse than greeks anticipated, this is particularly worse in border villages in gjirokastra
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Post by littleboyfatman on Dec 13, 2012 18:20:15 GMT -5
How can there be only 200 greeks in vlore? becouse they aint there... maybe ufos used telepoort for weird experiments...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 18:53:52 GMT -5
There is a fault to this census...In 1989 apparently there were no Greeks in the Vlore area even though there are roughly 10,000 of them, the government did not acknowledge them... You pay a 1,000 dollar fine to switch your nationality in the 2011 census from the 1989 one... well there are no greeks in vlora city and sorrounding areas but with the inclusion of himara and all those other villages in the wider municipality area in recent times those numbers jumped up, those numbers are mega inflated by those fraudsters that claim to be greek in order to get a pension, there are nowhere near 10k, i reckon around 4-5k with himara making up the bulk of those numbers, one thing to note is that the greek minoritars have left in their droves for greece and that's why the numbers are far worse than greeks anticipated, this is particularly worse in border villages in gjirokastra Do not forget about the Greek villages of Arta and Zvernica just north of Vlore, so maybe around 6k...anyways the population of Dropuli in 2001 was 16,000, so I wouldn't expect a major change of population in that area in 10 years. Btw, were you really involved with the census? What do you think the correct amount of Greeks really is in Albania, I would like to know.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 13, 2012 19:06:14 GMT -5
in Paris conference of ambassadors of England, France and Italy confirms the independence of Albania, the Albanian government recognizes and decides on the country's borders. According to the decision, which was officially accepted by Albania on 17 February 1922, Italy obtains custody of the state, Greece lost permanently Northern Epirus South Albania, the Albanian content with assurances of respect for linguistic and religious rights of some 120.000 Greek inhabitants. Enver Hoxha did not consider the Greeks of Korytsa to be Greek. When he created a small minority zone - the only region in which the Greek language could be taught or spoken - he made sure to include only one hundred villages along the valley of Dropoli and exclude most Greek inhabited territory from it. As a result, the Greeks of Cheimarra on the west coast, the Greeks of Premeti, Korytsa and Moschopoli were denied education in their language for fifty years. For some strange reason, these Greeks continued to remember that they were Greeks. Paradoxically, considering that they possessed the same culture and history as the Greeks south of the border, they, north of the border, considered themselves to be living in Northern Epirus. Epirus is a geographical and cultural entity that extends from the Ambracic gulf to the gulf of Avlona In the south Greek is the language of the day, since that's where Greece and the Greek minority live ... Greeks Today in Albania only 58758 Himara The census only for the Greek minority has to be repeated under control of the European .. because the census data are biased by the albanian authorities !
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 13, 2012 19:59:31 GMT -5
well there are no greeks in vlora city and sorrounding areas but with the inclusion of himara and all those other villages in the wider municipality area in recent times those numbers jumped up, those numbers are mega inflated by those fraudsters that claim to be greek in order to get a pension, there are nowhere near 10k, i reckon around 4-5k with himara making up the bulk of those numbers, one thing to note is that the greek minoritars have left in their droves for greece and that's why the numbers are far worse than greeks anticipated, this is particularly worse in border villages in gjirokastra Do not forget about the Greek villages of Arta and Zvernica just north of Vlore, so maybe around 6k...anyways the population of Dropuli in 2001 was 16,000, so I wouldn't expect a major change of population in that area in 10 years. Btw, were you really involved with the census? What do you think the correct amount of Greeks really is in Albania, I would like to know. i was briefly, on the ground that is, conducting it not in the cetral office or anything, but we did interact with other team from around the country especially those from vlora and we exchanged a lot of information, tips and expertise. from what i was told and what i heard...and my personal opinion is that the number of those who really are greeks is around 35-45k, if you account for those who have migrated to greece it could be up to 65-70k perhaps, but from samples we took over 2/5 of the albanians live either periodically or permanently abroad and a lot of people did not participate, but the census was riddled with mistakes and it was in most part administered badly and a lot of noise in the information.
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 13, 2012 20:08:17 GMT -5
i think the perception in greece is that there are 200k orthodox christians in alb therefore there must be 200k greeks, also they look at the amount of people that collect pensions and they assume they are greeks, those numbers can be misleading, i personally know of muslim families who forged papers and changed their names to receive a monthly allowance, to you and me that can is comical but it happens, the greek government is well aware of this but they play along because all they care is numbers in order to intensify claims.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 20:20:36 GMT -5
yes I agree with you, but why has this census been so out of order? Does declaring your religion have to do with who the bishop is?
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 13, 2012 21:04:38 GMT -5
AK did most of the damage to undermine the census, declaring your religion is a sensitive subject among albs since our identity is based upon 'our religion is albania', and people did not want religion to be included because it is perceived as devisive, AK felt that berisha had a hidden agenda and they did a good job to sabotage it,
but many other factors affected it, poorly planned, badly trained people and a very complicated form and just a general mistrust by people who felt it was an invasion of privacy,
the archbishop had nothing to do with it, we're just winding you up, i'd prefer an albanian archbishop personally but he wouldn't be the reason to boycott a census.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 21:11:18 GMT -5
AK did most of the damage to undermine the census, declaring your religion is a sensitive subject among albs since our identity is based upon 'our religion is albania', and people did not want religion to be included because it is perceived as devisive, AK felt that berisha had a hidden agenda and they did a good job to sabotage it, but many other factors affected it, poorly planned, badly trained people and a very complicated form and just a general mistrust by people who felt it was an invasion of privacy, the archbishop had nothing to do with it, we're just winding you up, i'd prefer an albanian archbishop personally but he wouldn't be the reason to boycott a census. Were most of the boy cotters Orthodox, if so then why them?
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Dec 13, 2012 21:28:02 GMT -5
i wouldn't read too much into that census if i were you
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 13, 2012 23:22:56 GMT -5
Annihilation of the Greek Minority of Northern Epirus /South Albania with the Census by Albania !
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 14, 2012 9:47:00 GMT -5
14 Dec 12 Albania's Minorities Shrink Below 2 Per Cent
Data published on Thursday by Albania's National Institute of Statistics, INSTAT, show that in the 2011 census ethnic minorities make less than 1.5 per cent of the population. Besar Likmeta BIRN Tirana
According to INSTAT the ethnic Greek minority now accounts for only 0.87 per cent of the population, ethnic Macedonians make up 0.2 per cent and Roma 0.3 per cent.
The census data show that 83.2 per cent of the respondents declared themselves ethnic Albanians, while 14.07 per cent refused to answer questions on the basis of nationality.
“In 2011 there were no surprises when it comes to the ethnic make-up of the country,” said the Minister of Innovation and Technology, Genc Pollo, who presented the census data.
Although an official census had not been carried out in Albania for decades, the size of the ethnic Greek population has been estimated before to be larger. In the 1989 census the Greek minority in Albania was registered at 1.8 per cent of the population.
The data show that 99 per cent of the respondents in the census declared Albanian as their mother tongue, 0.54 per cent Greek, and 0.14 per cent Macedonian.
Data on the religious make-up of the country show that 56.7 per cent of Albanians declare themselves as Muslim, 10.53 per cent as Catholics, 6.75 per cent as Orthodox, and 2.09 per cent as Bektashi Muslims. Another 2.5 per cent are atheists and 5.53 per cent are non-denominational believers.
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