Alexander the Great is Albanian

[koleci]

www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00CIwd


Has anyone else come across this kind of information, it seems to be everywhere in Albanian History websites and forums.

Does anyone have any good recommendations on researching the history of the Mirdites? Thank you, God bless

[Balkaneros]

Albanians claim everything that they think is worth value towards their overall goal, get used to it.

[Shqipni13]

I think it's your people who are guilty of that. Whenever you read a claim like this or being the descendants of Illyrians, it always starts with a foreigner. Uz, why the the hardliner transformation?

[Balkaneros]

Serbs only claim what is Serbian - your old arguments about the ficticious "Greater Serbia" is exactly what your "greater" albania has turned into today, that's how deluded you are not being able to see your own contradictions. What you claim to hate is exactly what you are.

So shqips, enlighten us about Alexander the Great and his Albanian roots and while at why don't any of you punks follow through with your claims for once about Obilic being an alb and karadjordje?

In this forum we went to the ultimate extent in exposing the Skandenbeg fallacy leaving you all speachles, surely you can retaliate with something ?

[lokii]

Obilic being an alb .

I am guessing that the confusion lies with the word Kopil ?, while I generaly like Noel Malcolms studies, his bias and or deliberate negligence does shine in his work, such a shame.
Kopil is also a Serbian word which Malcolm so convieniently neglects to inform his readers.
I am of the opinion that Milos Obilic did not exist and this name was given to an unnamed hero who gutted the Sultan (Konstatine wrote about the assasination but did not name the assasin).

karadjordje.


I didnt know that Albanians where trying to claim him ?? But there is no doubt as to who"BlackGeorge" belongs to, he was A Serb, Dordje Petrovic and if anyone needs a outside source documenting him they need only look in th Austrian Army archives, he and his acheivments are well documented, so there is not a chance he could of been Albanian.

[Shqipni13]

Every nationalist speaks of greater this or greater that. I personally would like to see lands where Albanians form a majority within the same border. You see maps of Greater Albania with places like Manastir and Oher within the border but I'm not for that. Although those places have historical significance, they only have a small minority of Albanians. I just want what's fair. I believe I'm the only Albanian here who believes RS should be joined with Serbia, it only makes sense. As far as your Kastrioti statements, what have you proved? Karadjordje, I have no idea. Obilic/Kopiliqi?? not sure on that either. As lokii touched upon, I've also read that he may have been a mythical character to boost nationalism. A lot of that in the balkans.

[Balkaneros]

Feb 2, 2013 20:23:50 GMT -5 Shqipni13 said:

Every nationalist speaks of greater this or greater that. I personally would like to see lands where Albanians form a majority within the same border. You see maps of Greater Albania with places like Manastir and Oher within the border but I'm not for that. Although those places have historical significance, they only have a small minority of Albanians. I just want what's fair. I believe I'm the only Albanian here who believes RS should be joined with Serbia, it only makes sense. As far as your Kastrioti statements, what have you proved? Karadjordje, I have no idea. Obilic/Kopiliqi?? not sure on that either. As lokii touched upon, I've also read that he may have been a mythical character to boost nationalism. A lot of that in the balkans.

Where were you in the 90's? Greater Serbia was comprised with exactly what you're saying... all areas where Serbs held a majority you hypocrite.

[Shqipni13]

Kosova? Presheva?

[Balkaneros]

Feb 2, 2013 22:51:41 GMT -5 Shqipni13 said:

Kosova? Presheva?

lmao!! what?

another epic hideaway by shqips... so you DO understand the hypocracy yes... I am glad now that you'll stfu about Greater Serbia.

Kosovo is a criminal state - a black hole according to the official world. What numbers? Majority don't belong there LOL my answer to you is simple. In Presevo? well... the Albanians there should add the red noses to their attire those clowns. If you weren't blind to your nationalism you would see how it is the albanians in Presevo instigating war and conflict not Serbs,  you keep pretending to be unbiase and fall flat on your face everytime. It's hard to let that go man I have to call it out I always do. Like with that rex fella. 

I've also read that he may have been a mythical character to boost nationalism. A lot of that in the balkans.

Skandenbeg.

[Balkaneros]

Feb 2, 2013 18:28:44 GMT -5 lokii said:

Obilic being an alb .

I am guessing that the confusion lies with the word Kopil ?, while I generaly like Noel Malcolms studies, his bias and or deliberate negligence does shine in his work, such a shame.
Kopil is also a Serbian word which Malcolm so convieniently neglects to inform his readers.
I am of the opinion that Milos Obilic did not exist and this name was given to an unnamed hero who gutted the Sultan (Konstatine wrote about the assasination but did not name the assasin).

karadjordje.


I didnt know that Albanians where trying to claim him ?? But there is no doubt as to who"BlackGeorge" belongs to, he was A Serb, Dordje Petrovic and if anyone needs a outside source documenting him they need only look in th Austrian Army archives, he and his acheivments are well documented, so there is not a chance he could of been Albanian.

Yes of course, I was only giving short examples as to what Albanians, or idiots in here who claim this identity try to claim. When the fact of the matter is the Albanians have the shiftiest and least documented identity in Balkan.\

It was a Serb who took out the Sultan, being the only man in history to do that - at this point it doesn't matter what his name was the assassin himself is documented well as being a SERB. However, why hasn't the name been documented raises question to why "they had to make a story behind a made-up name". Maybe Obilic in fact was real but later glorified as the military and social stature we give him today - he may have been a nobody with a heart and saw an opportunity. 

[Shqipni13]

Feb 3, 2013 0:33:24 GMT -5 Balkaneros said:

Feb 2, 2013 22:51:41 GMT -5 Shqipni13 said:

Kosova? Presheva?

lmao!! what?

another epic hideaway by shqips... so you DO understand the hypocracy yes... I am glad now that you'll stfu about Greater Serbia.

Kosovo is a criminal state - a black hole according to the official world. What numbers? Majority don't belong there LOL my answer to you is simple. In Presevo? well... the Albanians there should add the red noses to their attire those clowns. If you weren't blind to your nationalism you would see how it is the albanians in Presevo instigating war and conflict not Serbs,  you keep pretending to be unbiase and fall flat on your face everytime. It's hard to let that go man I have to call it out I always do. Like with that rex fella. 

I've also read that he may have been a mythical character to boost nationalism. A lot of that in the balkans.

Skandenbeg.

The majority doesn't belong? lol. You are a clown. I see reading the Talmud has done you well. You have learned how to think like a Jew.

[Balkaneros]

Feb 3, 2013 16:02:06 GMT -5 Shqipni13 said:

Feb 3, 2013 0:33:24 GMT -5 Balkaneros said:

lmao!! what?

another epic hideaway by shqips... so you DO understand the hypocracy yes... I am glad now that you'll stfu about Greater Serbia.

Kosovo is a criminal state - a black hole according to the official world. What numbers? Majority don't belong there LOL my answer to you is simple. In Presevo? well... the Albanians there should add the red noses to their attire those clowns. If you weren't blind to your nationalism you would see how it is the albanians in Presevo instigating war and conflict not Serbs,  you keep pretending to be unbiase and fall flat on your face everytime. It's hard to let that go man I have to call it out I always do. Like with that rex fella. 

I've also read that he may have been a mythical character to boost nationalism. A lot of that in the balkans.

Skandenbeg.

The majority doesn't belong? lol. You are a clown. I see reading the Talmud has done you well. You have learned how to think like a Jew.

Stop prancing around fairy boy - I can pull up at least 10 quotes of yours envying the Jews from this forum and now you critisize? LMAO @ the idiocty,  have you any shame or are just that dumb not knowing what you post.

[Shqipni13]

^You can envy and criticize at the same time. Admire how they stick together, criticize for treatment of Palestinians and forcing birth control amongst Ethiopians. You are a tart. Who is prancing you stupid mutt?

[Balkaneros]

Feb 3, 2013 16:42:40 GMT -5 Shqipni13 said:

^You can envy and criticize at the same time. Admire how they stick together, criticize for treatment of Palestinians and forcing birth control amongst Ethiopians. You are a tart. Who is prancing you stupid mutt?

Your usage of the Talmund" shows exactly what you know - nothing. Talmund refers to "sticking together" not mis-treating Palestinians LOL... over time shqips you've become fantastic. I mean that

You're nationalist blindfold is on too tight, know the terminology you use and try to get your analogies in order you make no-sense man.

[Shqipni13]

I'm too straight to the point for you. You never answer my shit. Instead you come off with condescending remarks that stray away from the topic. Back to topic....Greater Serbia includes Kosova (90% Albanian). Why do you want it? I've asked 50 times already.

[Balkaneros]

Feb 3, 2013 16:56:19 GMT -5 Shqipni13 said:

I'm too straight to the point for you. You never answer my s**t. Instead you come off with condescending remarks that stray away from the topic. Back to topic....Greater Serbia includes Kosova (90% Albanian). Why do you want it? I've asked 50 times already.

I have answered you more than 50x but what's the point when I'm talking to deaf and blind man?

I have tons of threads in here that justify what I say, all sources, by NON-SERBS for your convenience and you STILL shy away... It's ok man, you're an easy read. I am just making clear that you're just as ignorant as you say pyross and novi are - like I said, I have to call it out, I always do when I see hypocracy in action.

[atdhetar]

he calls others nationalists despite the fact that he has a massive picture of a banner praising mladic and he does nothing but claims enything and everything is serbian, oh the irony!

[Shqipni13]

Here is an unbiased article for you to chew on dipshit.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2008/02/the_serbs_selfinflicted_wounds.single.html

The Serbs' Self-Inflicted WoundsWith Kosovo independent, Yugoslavia is finally dead.
By Christopher Hitchens
|Posted Friday, Feb. 22, 2008, at 12:51 PM ET
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Serbian protesters rally against Kosovo's declaration of independence. Click image to expand.
Serbian protestors in Belgrade
Someone with a good memory of the conversation once told me how Lord Carrington, then one of the "mediators" of the incipient post-Yugoslavia war, came to the conclusion that Slobodan Milosevic was a highly dangerous man. Well-disposed toward Serbia (as the British establishment has always been), Carrington told the late dictator that he understood Serb concerns about significant Serbian minorities in Bosnia and Croatia. But why did Milosevic also insist on exclusive control over Kosovo, where the Albanian population was approximately 90 percent? "That," replied Milosevic coldly, "is for historical reasons." It's a shame, in retrospect, that it took us so long to diagnose the pathology of Serbia's combination of arrogance and self-pity, in which what is theirs is theirs and what is anybody else's is negotiable.
We used to read this same atavistic proclamation by the hellish light of burning Sarajevo, and now we glimpse it again through the flames of the blazing U.S. Embassy in Belgrade
, and by the glare of similar but less dramatic arsons set by Serbs in ski masks in northern Kosovo itself. But it needs to be understood that "Serbia" itself has lost nothing and has nothing to complain about. With the independence of Kosovo, the Yugoslav idea is finally and completely dead, but it was Serbian irredentism that killed the last vestige of that idea, and it is to that account that the whole cost ought to be charged.Advertisement

Forget all the nonsense that you may have heard about Kosovo being "the Jerusalem" of Serbia. It may contain some beautiful and ancient Serbian and Serbian Orthodox cultural sites, but it is much more like Serbia's West Bank or Gaza, with a sweltering, penned-up, subject population who were for generations treated as if they were human refuse in the land of their own birth. Nobody who has spent any time in the territory, as I did during and after the eviction of the Serb militias, can believe for a single second that any Kosovar would ever again submit to rule from Belgrade. It's over.
But how did it begin? In fact, Kosovo has never been recognized internationally as part of Serbia. It was only ever recognized as part of Yugoslavia, and with the liquidation of that state Serbian claims upon its territory became null and void. A little history here is necessary.
During the Balkan wars of 1912 and 1913, the then-distinct kingdom of Serbia, with some regional allies, did manage to invade and annex a formerly Ottoman territory that had been the scene of a Serbian military defeat in—wait for it—1389. (In that year, England was laying emotional claims to large and beautiful areas of France.) Serbian monarchist and nationalist propaganda hailed the "liberation" of the ancestral land, but the shrewdest foreign correspondent of the day took a different line:
Do not the facts, undeniable and irrefutable, force you to come to the conclusion that the Bulgars in Macedonia, the Serbs in old Serbia, in their national endeavor to correct data in the ethnological statistics that are not quite favorable to them, are engaged quite simply in systematic extermination of the Muslim population in the villages, towns and districts?
Leon Trotsky, writing this in January 1913 as an open letter in the (Menshevik) paper Luch ("The Ray") was addressing the "liberal" Russian chauvinist politician Pavel Miliukov. So, as you can see, the arrogant Russian support for Orthodox Christian ethnic cleansing in the Balkans is not a new problem. (Under Russian President Vladimir Putin's pious rule, though, our own timorous press prefers not to call attention to the way in which Russian political thuggery is increasingly backed by an Orthodox religious hierarchy.)
The same Balkan war—as Trotsky had predicted—went on to draw in the whole of Europe and indeed the rest of the world, and by the time it ended, the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires had imploded entirely and there was to be a new state, Yugoslavia, where they had once jostled at the borders. You might argue that Kosovo was now part of Serbia by "right" of conquest (in other words, de facto), but in fact, not even Serbia had adjusted its own laws to make it a legal province de jure, and this was in any case moot because all future treaties and agreements were signed between Yugoslavia and the no-less-new state concept calling itself republican Turkey. Legal instruments agreed between these two entities recognized Belgrade's sovereignty over Kosovo, but solely in the sense that they recognized Belgrade as the capital of Yugoslavia. (For a more extended discussion of this essential constitutional point, see Noel Malcolm's Kosovo: A Short History
.) Thus, and if we exempt some decisions made by Stalinist bureaucrats after the re-creation of Yugoslavia in 1945, Kosovo has never been treated or recognized as Serb territory within Yugoslavia and never at all by international treaties outside that former state. Even those hasty Stalinist decisions were later undone by Tito, who granted Kosovo a large measure of autonomy in 1974. It is very important to remember that Slobodan Milosevic launched his own petty and violent career, as the head of a Serb-Montenegrin crime family, precisely by cancelingKosovo's pre-existing autonomy in 1990, remaking himself as a nationalist demagogue instead of a Communist one, and bringing in the roof of the Yugoslav federation.
You will by now have read dark remarks made by partisans of the Russian and Serb Orthodox viewpoint, to the effect that if one "secession" is allowed, then what is to prevent every Gypsy or Chechen or Ossetian from proclaiming their own statelet? You should, first, ask if the Bosnian Serbs ought not to have thought of this first and been better advised by the "realist" or Kissinger school that now weeps such hypocritical tears. You should, second, ask if you know of any case comparable to the Kosovo one, where a national minority was so long imprisoned within an artificial state.
Of course, one ought to acknowledge that this is a calamity for the Serbs and indeed an injustice in the sense of an insult to their pride and history. But the injustice was self-inflicted. I remember seeing, in Kosovo, the "settlements" for Serbs that the Milosevic regime was building in a vain effort to alter the demography. And who were the bedraggled "settlers"? The luckless Serbian civilians who had been living in the Krajina area of Croatia until their fearless leader's war of conquest for "Greater Serbia" had brought general disaster and seen them finally evicted from farms and homesteads they had garrisoned for centuries. Promised new land on colonized Albanian territory, they had been uprooted and evicted once again. Where are they now, I wonder? Perhaps stupidly stoning the McDonald's in Belgrade, and vowing fervently never to forget the lost glories of 1389, and maybe occasionally wondering where they made their original mistake.

[atdhetar]

spot on!

[lokii]

Ouch !! hardly unbiased, I have read Christopher Hitchens's works before, the most memorable would be his unbelievable critisism of mother teresa, also his stupid rants on Muslims etc none of his work can be considered unbiased.
But this piece has cold hard facts that Serbs need to examine and understand, however it is written in a total derogative manner, it is very clear though why most of these so called Unbiased neutral sources always start at 1389.