Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jul 2, 2019 22:15:17 GMT -5
original link
....the Schism was happening and that's when we were transferring from being Illyrians into Albanians and even Vlachs
Survival tactics ....Going through Roman empire ,Byzantine and then later Ottoman .....we made it through
I 'm here ...
You can't find anything written about Albania, Albanians or the Albanian language prior to the 11th century.
You're entire seafaring / nautical lexicon is borrowed from Latin and Slavic. That's extraordinary considering that the Illyrians were most famous for their ship making, pirating and voyages.
There's zero transitional history from when the Illyrians went extinct to when the Albanians first popped up in the Balkans and we're talking over 700 years of blank history. That's because there is no transition, Albanians don't come from illyrians.
Fully correct about Illyrians or specifically Ardideans whose queen Teta went to war with Roman Republic over this very issue.
Now what is interesting and that connects to Illyrians in this aspect is bellow info!
Paganija
Približni teritorij Paganije u 9. vijeku
Paganija (Neretvanska kneževina ili Neretljanska kneževina) je rana južnoslavenska država koja se prostirala između rijeke Cetine na zapadu i ušća rijeke Neretve na istoku, zajedno s dalmatinskim otocima (Brač, Hvar i Korčula), između 9. i 11. vijeka. Prije naseljivanja Slavena na tom su području živjela ilirska plemena (vjerojatno Autarijati i Ardijejci, te Delmati), zatim Rimljani, te kratkotrajno Goti koje je u prvoj polovini 6. vijeka potisnuo Bizant. Pošto se lokalno stanovništvo žestoko protivilo pokrštavanju i na kraju je među zadnjima na Balkanu prihvatilo kršćanstvo, država je po paganima dobila ime Paganija. Na istoku Paganija je graničila sa Zahumljem, a na zapadu s Hrvatskim Kraljevstvom, pod čiju će kontrolu na kraju doći najkasnije u drugoj polovini 11. vijeka. Smatra se da je povremeno tokom ranoga srednjega vijeka Paganija imala stanovitu samostalnost. Neretvani, njeni stanovnici, bavili su se gusarstvom i ugrožavali su plovni put duž istočne jadranske obale, te napadali gradove na sjevernom Jadranu.
Približni teritorij Paganije u 9. vijeku
Paganija (Neretvanska kneževina ili Neretljanska kneževina) je rana južnoslavenska država koja se prostirala između rijeke Cetine na zapadu i ušća rijeke Neretve na istoku, zajedno s dalmatinskim otocima (Brač, Hvar i Korčula), između 9. i 11. vijeka. Prije naseljivanja Slavena na tom su području živjela ilirska plemena (vjerojatno Autarijati i Ardijejci, te Delmati), zatim Rimljani, te kratkotrajno Goti koje je u prvoj polovini 6. vijeka potisnuo Bizant. Pošto se lokalno stanovništvo žestoko protivilo pokrštavanju i na kraju je među zadnjima na Balkanu prihvatilo kršćanstvo, država je po paganima dobila ime Paganija. Na istoku Paganija je graničila sa Zahumljem, a na zapadu s Hrvatskim Kraljevstvom, pod čiju će kontrolu na kraju doći najkasnije u drugoj polovini 11. vijeka. Smatra se da je povremeno tokom ranoga srednjega vijeka Paganija imala stanovitu samostalnost. Neretvani, njeni stanovnici, bavili su se gusarstvom i ugrožavali su plovni put duž istočne jadranske obale, te napadali gradove na sjevernom Jadranu.
The Narentines were a South Slavic[1] tribe that occupied an area of southern Dalmatia centered at the river Neretva (Narenta), active in the 9th and 10th centuries, noted as pirates on the Adriatic. Named Narentani in Venetian sources, Greek sources call them Paganoi, "pagans", as they were for long pagan, in a time when neighbouring tribes were Christianized. The tribe were fierce enemies of the Republic of Venice, having attacked Venetian merchants and clergy passing on the Adriatic, and even raided close to Venice itself, as well as defeated the Doge several times. Venetian–Narentine peace treaties did not last long, as the Narentines quickly returned to piracy. They were finally defeated in a Venetian crackdown at the turn of the 10th century and disappeared from sources by the 11th century.
Historiography
The question of the ethnic designation of the tribe, whether it, apart from being Slavic, was to be described as Serb or Croat, is often found in historiography.[42] The earliest information about the Narentines is from the early 9th century, compiled in the Chronicon Venetum et Gradense.[43] The Venetian chronicle used the Slavic ethnonym (Latin: Narrentanos Sclavos) to refer to the Narentines.[44]
De Administrando Imperio also gives information about the Narentines, originating from the 870s.[43] There, the Narentines are described as "descended from the unbaptized Serbs" ... The Pagans are so called because they did not accept baptism at the time when all the Serbs were baptized."[45] Romanian-American historian Florin Curta considered it "an indication that in the mid-tenth century the coastal zhupanias were under the control of the Serbian zhupan Časlav", as noted in his 2006 book.[46] Serbian historian Tibor Živković wrote in 2012 that "it was stated in the DAI that the Serbs had been baptized much earlier, and therefore, the Pagans could not have belonged to the Serb tribe. There is information in chapter 32, that the Serbs controlled Pagania in ca. 895, during the rule of the Archon Peter, and from this political situation Constantine would have been able to write that the Pagans belonged to the Serbian tribe."[47] Croatian historian Neven Budak also holds that remarks regarding the Narentines were related to the political situation at the time.[48]
In the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, a work written by a Catholic bishop likely for a Croatian ruler in ca. 1300–10,[49] the southern Dalmatian principalities are referred to as part of "Red Croatia".[5] While later parts of the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja are considered of high value, events described in the early Middle Ages are largely discredited in historiography.[50]
Pavel Jozef Šafárik (1795–1861) viewed that the first information on Serbs in history were from events regarding the Narentines.[15] Konstantin Josef Jireček (1854–1918) treated them as a distinct South Slavic tribe.[51] Croatian historian F. Šišić (1869–1940) said that the Neretva population were "ever and always fully identical to the Croat [population], including also its Chakavian dialect" (1952).[51] Croatian historian Vladimir Košćak (1921–1991) believed that the Narentines were under Croat rule from Trpimir until Domagoj (d. 876), and that after the latter's death, they sent emissaries to Basil I and recognized his rule, which was however short-lived as spanning only to the fall of Byzantine protégé Zdeslav (879) when the Narentines again fell away from Byzantium; Košćak wanted to reduce Byzantine rule also to the south of Pagania, claiming that the provinces of Pagania, Zachumlia, Travunia and Duklja again came under Croat rule during Branimir (r. 879–892).[52] This theory was criticized by the Serbian academic Institute for Byzantine Studies.[52] Serbian historiography in the 19th and 20th century considered the Narentines to be Serbs.[53] Vladimir Ćorović (1885–1941) treated the Narentines as the first of the Serb tribes to take the initiative of fighting, not for defence and tribal organization, but for the liberty of selfish desires and security raids.[17]
According to Croatian historian Ivo Goldstein, the Narentines "could not be regarder neither Serbs nor Croats."[54] Budak wrote that the Narentines were "undoubtedly a distinct ethnic group", who "disappeared as a separate ethnicity when their principality was joined into Croatia".[55]
The question of the ethnic designation of the tribe, whether it, apart from being Slavic, was to be described as Serb or Croat, is often found in historiography.[42] The earliest information about the Narentines is from the early 9th century, compiled in the Chronicon Venetum et Gradense.[43] The Venetian chronicle used the Slavic ethnonym (Latin: Narrentanos Sclavos) to refer to the Narentines.[44]
De Administrando Imperio also gives information about the Narentines, originating from the 870s.[43] There, the Narentines are described as "descended from the unbaptized Serbs" ... The Pagans are so called because they did not accept baptism at the time when all the Serbs were baptized."[45] Romanian-American historian Florin Curta considered it "an indication that in the mid-tenth century the coastal zhupanias were under the control of the Serbian zhupan Časlav", as noted in his 2006 book.[46] Serbian historian Tibor Živković wrote in 2012 that "it was stated in the DAI that the Serbs had been baptized much earlier, and therefore, the Pagans could not have belonged to the Serb tribe. There is information in chapter 32, that the Serbs controlled Pagania in ca. 895, during the rule of the Archon Peter, and from this political situation Constantine would have been able to write that the Pagans belonged to the Serbian tribe."[47] Croatian historian Neven Budak also holds that remarks regarding the Narentines were related to the political situation at the time.[48]
In the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, a work written by a Catholic bishop likely for a Croatian ruler in ca. 1300–10,[49] the southern Dalmatian principalities are referred to as part of "Red Croatia".[5] While later parts of the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja are considered of high value, events described in the early Middle Ages are largely discredited in historiography.[50]
Pavel Jozef Šafárik (1795–1861) viewed that the first information on Serbs in history were from events regarding the Narentines.[15] Konstantin Josef Jireček (1854–1918) treated them as a distinct South Slavic tribe.[51] Croatian historian F. Šišić (1869–1940) said that the Neretva population were "ever and always fully identical to the Croat [population], including also its Chakavian dialect" (1952).[51] Croatian historian Vladimir Košćak (1921–1991) believed that the Narentines were under Croat rule from Trpimir until Domagoj (d. 876), and that after the latter's death, they sent emissaries to Basil I and recognized his rule, which was however short-lived as spanning only to the fall of Byzantine protégé Zdeslav (879) when the Narentines again fell away from Byzantium; Košćak wanted to reduce Byzantine rule also to the south of Pagania, claiming that the provinces of Pagania, Zachumlia, Travunia and Duklja again came under Croat rule during Branimir (r. 879–892).[52] This theory was criticized by the Serbian academic Institute for Byzantine Studies.[52] Serbian historiography in the 19th and 20th century considered the Narentines to be Serbs.[53] Vladimir Ćorović (1885–1941) treated the Narentines as the first of the Serb tribes to take the initiative of fighting, not for defence and tribal organization, but for the liberty of selfish desires and security raids.[17]
According to Croatian historian Ivo Goldstein, the Narentines "could not be regarder neither Serbs nor Croats."[54] Budak wrote that the Narentines were "undoubtedly a distinct ethnic group", who "disappeared as a separate ethnicity when their principality was joined into Croatia".[55]
now compare this to
Reign
After the death of her husband Agron, (250–230 BC)[3] the former king of the Ardiaei, she inherited the Ardiaean kingdom, which included much of Illyria proper, though its exact extent remains unknown,[4] and she acted as regent for her young stepson Pinnes.[5] According to Polybius, she ruled "by women's reasoning".[6] Teuta started to address the neighbouring states malevolently, supporting the piratical raids of her subjects. She also gave the Romans their first pretext to cross the Adriatic with an army; this occurred as they started the conquest of the eastern Mediterranean.[7]
Illyrian land prior to Roman conquest
Illyrians soon captured and later fortified Dyrrachium (modern-day Durrës, Albania) and Phoenice (which was soon liberated with a truce and a fee).[8] While her ships were off the coast of Onchesmos, they intercepted and plundered[8] some Roman merchant vessels. Teuta's forces extended their operations further southward into the Ionian Sea, defeating the combined Achaean and Aetolian fleet in the battle of Paxos and capturing the island of Corcyra, which put them in position to breach the important trade routes between the mainland of Greece and the Greek cities in Italy.[1]
Because the Roman Republic felt threatened by the opposing side of the Adriatic in the very vicinity of its territories (where most of the raids occurred),[9] the senate was compelled to dispatch two ambassadors to the city of Scodra to solicit reparations and demand an end to all pirate expeditions. Queen Teuta told the ambassadors that according to the law of the Illyrians, piracy was a lawful trade and that her government had no right to interfere with this as a private enterprise. She also implied that "it was never the custom of royalty to prevent the advantage of its subjects they could get from the sea".[9] One of the envoys reportedly replied that Rome would make it her business to introduce better law among the Illyrians as "we have an excellent custom of punishing private wrongs by public revenge".[9] At any rate, one of the two present ambassadors expressed himself to the queen so disrespectfully that her attendants were ordered to seize the ambassadors' ship as it embarked back for Rome.[10] One of the ambassadors was killed and the other was put in captivity.[1]
After the death of her husband Agron, (250–230 BC)[3] the former king of the Ardiaei, she inherited the Ardiaean kingdom, which included much of Illyria proper, though its exact extent remains unknown,[4] and she acted as regent for her young stepson Pinnes.[5] According to Polybius, she ruled "by women's reasoning".[6] Teuta started to address the neighbouring states malevolently, supporting the piratical raids of her subjects. She also gave the Romans their first pretext to cross the Adriatic with an army; this occurred as they started the conquest of the eastern Mediterranean.[7]
Illyrian land prior to Roman conquest
Illyrians soon captured and later fortified Dyrrachium (modern-day Durrës, Albania) and Phoenice (which was soon liberated with a truce and a fee).[8] While her ships were off the coast of Onchesmos, they intercepted and plundered[8] some Roman merchant vessels. Teuta's forces extended their operations further southward into the Ionian Sea, defeating the combined Achaean and Aetolian fleet in the battle of Paxos and capturing the island of Corcyra, which put them in position to breach the important trade routes between the mainland of Greece and the Greek cities in Italy.[1]
Because the Roman Republic felt threatened by the opposing side of the Adriatic in the very vicinity of its territories (where most of the raids occurred),[9] the senate was compelled to dispatch two ambassadors to the city of Scodra to solicit reparations and demand an end to all pirate expeditions. Queen Teuta told the ambassadors that according to the law of the Illyrians, piracy was a lawful trade and that her government had no right to interfere with this as a private enterprise. She also implied that "it was never the custom of royalty to prevent the advantage of its subjects they could get from the sea".[9] One of the envoys reportedly replied that Rome would make it her business to introduce better law among the Illyrians as "we have an excellent custom of punishing private wrongs by public revenge".[9] At any rate, one of the two present ambassadors expressed himself to the queen so disrespectfully that her attendants were ordered to seize the ambassadors' ship as it embarked back for Rome.[10] One of the ambassadors was killed and the other was put in captivity.[1]
Teuta's headquarters were in todays Risan (Rhizon) in Boka which is just south of river Neretva.