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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 22, 2008 15:44:27 GMT -5
Do you understand my Romanian friends ?
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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 22, 2008 15:49:07 GMT -5
St. Stephen in a letter to his son St. Emeric (Imre), 1036 A.D..
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 22, 2008 17:29:16 GMT -5
Let me guess: St. Stephen was telling the Magyars to live in a multilingual, multicultural country - like Romania?
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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 23, 2008 10:19:32 GMT -5
Too bad Romania doesn't consider itself multi-national, but rather a unitary nation state. "Make the strangers welcome in this land, let them keep their languages and customs, for weak and fragile is the realm which is based on a single language or on a single set of customs."
In keeping with the tolerance and enlightened spirit of St. Stephen, the official language of Hungary remained Latin until 1844. Hungary also throughout the centuries gave asylum to many nationalities:
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 23, 2008 11:09:56 GMT -5
Last I checked non-ethnic Romanian citizens, especially the Magyars, had the full range of education, media and religious activities in their own language. Magyars constitute a significant component of the government of Romania. So what on earth are you talking about?
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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 23, 2008 11:15:01 GMT -5
Last I checked non-ethnic Romanian citizens, especially the Magyars, had the full range of education, media and religious activities in their own language. Magyars constitute a significant component of the government of Romania. I think you need to check again, only 2% of Hungarian church property the was confiscated/stolen has been returned. Higher education which was abolished...The Bolyai University and others has never been re established. The gov'nt considers freedom of speech, calls for autonomy in pure Magyar regions a crime. It seems Romania has a very long way to go.
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 23, 2008 11:28:16 GMT -5
I think you need to check again, only 2% of Hungarian church property the was confiscated/stolen has been returned. Higher education which was abolished...The Bolyai University and others has never been re established. The gov'nt considers freedom of speech, calls for autonomy in pure Magyar regions a crime. It seems Romania has a very long way to go. I can't speak to the question of Church Property, but I found this website of the Babes-Bolyai university - all written in Magyar: www.ubbcluj.ro/hu/index.html
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 23, 2008 11:55:11 GMT -5
The gov'nt considers freedom of speech, calls for autonomy in pure Magyar regions a crime. Do you have a link to this law?
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Post by diurpaneus on Feb 23, 2008 12:19:44 GMT -5
Higher education which was abolished...The Bolyai University and others has never been re established. It seems Romania has a very long way to go. What about the Partium UniversityWhat about the Sapientia UniversityWhat about all those sections in hungarian from the Babes-Bolyai University, Targu-Mures Medicine University and others? Ethnic based autonomy is ILLEGAL in the European Union. Economic autonomy (descentralization) is encouraged, but that will happen anyway in Romania in a few years when our economists will have a good strategy. I don`t know about this, but I bet it`s a lie like the rest of your post. Indeed. That`s why America is the strongest state.
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Post by jerryspringer on Feb 23, 2008 12:23:10 GMT -5
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Post by diurpaneus on Feb 23, 2008 12:31:17 GMT -5
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Post by diurpaneus on Feb 23, 2008 12:36:29 GMT -5
Verry interesting on the Sapientia University website. If you try to access any page in the romanian language you get this message:
" Pagina cerută nu este disponibilă în limba română.
Pagina poate fi accesată în următoarele limbi:
maghiară "
Translation: "The requested page isn`t available in romanian. The page can be viewed in the following languages: hungarian."
;D
.... talking about tolerance and multiculturalism.
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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 23, 2008 16:01:58 GMT -5
Sapientia University is a private university not funded by the gov'nt. If Magyar pay taxes they should also have their own University thats gov'nt funded in pure Magyar areas, just as there are all Romanian universities. Bolyai was integrated into Babes so it would eventually be disolved by the communists. Just as the Magyar autonmous region was. Romania is dragging its feet on many issues, and for whatever reason is unwilling to make full restitution in these cases. Ethnic based autonomy is not illegal... Basques, Catalans, Gaugas, are but a few ex. its that only Romania wants it to be illegal. Romania will never be a fully democratic partner in the E.U. there are too many skeletons in the closet.
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Post by jerryspringer on Feb 23, 2008 17:08:45 GMT -5
What is Gaugas? Do you mean those bandits in Gagautia? It is a crime what they did to Moldova. A crime!
As for the Babes-Bolyai university: if what you say is true, then I agree with you. It's a shame that it must be this way.
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Post by diurpaneus on Feb 24, 2008 3:11:23 GMT -5
Bolyai was integrated into Babes so it would eventually be disolved by the communists. You don`t know chit. In 1918 when Transylvania united with Romania, the Hungarian College that was in that building where the Jezuit college used to be (where UBB is today), retreated to Budapest (and then to Szeged), like all major hungarian institutions. Some new buildings were built in the 1920's and with the building of the former jezuit colllege = a new Romanian university called "Universitatea Daciei Superioare Ferdinand I". In 1940 when the hungarians stole northern Transsylvania, this university moved to Sibiu. Now here is where the story starts: After WWII, when the stalinist communist regime was installed in our country, those bastards did all sorts of things in the name of INTERNATIONALISM, every mentioning of patriotism was brutally supressed (remember Lucretiu Patrascanu): Brasov was renamed to "Stalin City", the national anthem was changed to some proletcultist bullshit, the szeklers had some sort of autonomy, and the BOLYAI University was created in Cluj, for the hungarians. You see, all these measures were policies of the Stalinist regime, to soften all kind of resistance. The BOLYAI university existed until 1956, when the Hungarian Revolution started in Hungary. Then, it merged with the Babes University, which was also created after the war. So you see, the BOLYAI University was created by communists, and it was destroyed by communists. Don`t claim something the communists have done, don`t ask for it to be done now, because it will never be done.
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Post by jerryspringer on Feb 24, 2008 3:23:37 GMT -5
I thought that universaty held continuity from the time it was built by Stefan Bathory.
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Post by diurpaneus on Feb 24, 2008 3:33:18 GMT -5
I thought that universaty held continuity from the time it was built by Stefan Bathory. That one moved to Budapest in 1919, then to Szeged in 1921.
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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 24, 2008 8:59:26 GMT -5
Relax my friend, your anger and hatred is playing tricks with your mind. Bolyai was Originally called the Franz Joseph Royal Hungarian University in Kolozsvar, it was founded in 1872. I believe thats well before the communists came to power or before the the Romanian occupation. If you've ever been to Erdely, you know there is great Hungarian tradition here. Don't let your hatred and anger consume you because you feel Transylvania may be slipping from your grasp. A democratic society is built on truth and justice. It seems you're not ready for either.
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Post by diurpaneus on Feb 24, 2008 10:12:02 GMT -5
Stop inventing history. The University from Cluj was created in 1581 when Stefan Bathory created the Jezuit College that was led by italian jezuits, the first rector being Antonio Possevino. In 1776, Queen Maria Tereza transformed that jezuit college in a german university, that was later chaged in a piarist lyceum teaching in the latin language (hence the well-known PIARIST CATHOLIC CHURCH that is next to the Babes-Bolyai University, where I use to pray from times to times, even if I`m Orthodox). In 1872, Emperor Franz Josef disbanded the Piarist Lyceum and created a University in hungarian laguage upseting the german and romanian uniate population of Transylvania. This university created by Franz Josef MOVED to Budapest in 1919, then to Szeged in 1921. It returned to Cluj in the 1940-1945 period, after the War, the whole university administration, professors, etc. moved back to Szeged and is known today as the University of Szeged. ( Check here :" Historians find its predecessor in title the Kolozsvári Egyetem (University of today's Cluj-Napoca), founded in 1872 by Emperor Franz Joseph I., which had to move to Hungary in 1921, and was restarted in Szeged. [...] After the Great Flood the citizens of Szeged took steps on several occasions with a view to establishing an institution of higher education in Szeged. These efforts did not bear fruit until 1921 when the University of Kolozsvár (founded in 1872) moved to Szeged. This move was occasioned by the conclusion of World War I when the Trianon Peace Treaty changed the rule in Transylvania and ceded that province to Romania."). The BOLYAI University was just another communist invention that was put to an end after the hungarian revolution, when the russians ordered it. In fact, from 1947 until 1965, in Romania everything was done according to Moskow's orders, including the creation of the BOLYAI university. The stalinist times are over my friend. And I am 100% Transsylvanian from the Apuseni mountains; I live in Cluj-Napoca since you were not even born. Get it into your thick skull that "Transsylvania is not slipping from our gasp" and it never will. Hungarians are about 15-16% in Transsylvania and most of them are not moronic like yourself and other extremists. Most of them want what romanians want: they want peace and prosperity and everything they didn`t have during communist times and can now achieve in this capitalist society - UN TRAI MAI BUN (a better way of living). Hungarians and Romanians live in peace in Transsylvania and you right-wing extremist A*****es will never destroy this. Now go and take your prozac and return to reality, boy, this is the XXI-th century, not Horthy's XXth century "Nagymagyarorszag". PS: I sincerly doubt it that you ever were in Erdely yourself.
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Post by szorostalpu on Feb 24, 2008 11:55:16 GMT -5
Your comments speak volumes, your hatred of the truth has clouded any rational thoughts you may have had. I visit Kolozsvar every summer to visit relatives so I know quite a bit of its history. Were you born in Kolozsvar when it still had over 80% Hungarian majority? As far as 15-16% you're way off. Remember reality is not what you wish it to be but what it actually is. So if Hungarians and Romanians want to live peacefully you shouldn't be against autonomy which the majority of Hungarians want, or do you have double standards?
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