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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:39:14 GMT -5
Originaly posted by: Bozur The Hellenic Language of the Ancient Macedonians - Epigraphy Epigraphic artifacts created by Macedonians, an ancient and modern Greek entity, from Vth century BCE to IIIth century CE. This material, which on this video represent only a tiny fraction of archaeological finds which bear inscriptions and which were authored by Ancient Macedonians, is a testimony to the exclusive usage of Greek language among them. From single words and small inscriptions to larger paleographic monuments, these artifacts are an integral part of the Hellenic heritage. www.dailymotion.com/Gligorow/video/x3uibw_the-hellenic-language-of-the-ancien_creation |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:39:36 GMT -5
;D
The truth is always easier to find, and is always in front of us. We only have to open our eyes.
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:40:20 GMT -5
By teuta: The Ancient Macedonian language was the tongue of the Ancient Macedonians. It was spoken in Macedon during the 1st millennium BC. Marginalized from the 5th century BC, it was gradually replaced by the common Greek dialect of the Hellenistic Era. MILLENIUM and......5th century BC....  The right question is: REAL Macedonians or "Greekanized" Macedonians? Why Arvanites come to my mind? |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:41:08 GMT -5
The Ancient Macedonian language was the tongue of the Ancient Macedonians. It was spoken in Macedon during the 1st millennium BC. Marginalized from the 5th century BC, it was gradually replaced by the common Greek dialect of the Hellenistic Era. MILLENIUM and......5th century BC.... Prove it. Once again are you sure ? Btw the Arvanites and Albanians hate each other to death. Say to the Arvanites that they are Albanian and see what happens. They consider them selfs more Greek then most of us here. |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:42:01 GMT -5
By teuta: Group Single Geography Was spoken in ancient Macedonia, mainly in its regions distant from the coast. History Traditionally Macedonia was divided into Upper (mountainous) and Lower (plain) country. Through these regions, which were inhabited since the New Stone Age, a lot of ways of tribal migrations were going, and that is why its ethnic composition appeared very mixed: the researchers find there Greek, Illyrian and Thracian elements. Some consider Macedonians to be even of Pelasgian, non-Indo-European origin. Hellenes believed Macedonians a sort of semi-barbarians, i.e. the nation which did not manage to rise to the Greek level of culture, but were nevertheless closer to it than any other peoples around Greece. Phonetics Some important traits make Macedonian different from Greek in phonetics. The intervocal s was preserved here, while disappearing in Greek. Voiced aspirated consonants did not become voiceless but were preserved (Greek thanos vs. Macedonian danos 'death'). Morphology The nominal system is known only due to several glosses with fixed endings of nominative singular and plural. Obviously Indo-European o- and á-stems were quite productive in Macedonian. Lexicon Of all discovered Macedonian words, some do not have cognates in Greek but do have them in other Indo-European languages such as Thracian, Slavic, and Italic. Writing No writing Close Contacts The language is very hard to define whether it belongs to Thraco-Illyrian or to Hellenic groups of Indo-European languages. Some linguists believe that tribes of mountainous Macedonia spoke an archaic language closer to Thracian or Illyrian, but people in towns and the upper classes, influenced by Greek achievements, gradually were losing their native tongue and took up Greek. Contacts with Greek Halkidiki and Thessalia regions were strengthening in the 5th and 4th centuries, and simultaneously the process of national assimilation went on. When Greece was conquered by Philip of Macedonia and occupied by his son Alexander the Great, Macedonians officially became real Hellenes. Παράθεση: But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar [Strabo 7.7.8] Παράθεση: [3] When day dawned and the inhabitants had realized the danger that beset them, they were at first under the impression that the Lacedaemonians had forced an entry into the town, and attacked them more recklessly owing to their ancient hatred. But when they discovered from their equipment and speech that it was the Macedonians and Demetrius the son of Philip, they were filled with great fear, when they considered the Macedonian training in warfare and the good fortune which they saw that they enjoyed in all their ventures. [Pausanias Messeniaka XXIX, 3] Παράθεση: Alexander speaks: “The Macedonians are going to judge your case,” he said. “Please state whether you will use your native language before them.”Philotas: “ Besides the Macedonians, there are many present who, I think, will find what I am going to say easier to understand if I use the language you yourself have been using, your purpose, I believe, being only to enable more people to understand you.” Curtius VII 9.25 - 11.7 Παράθεση: Aetolians, Acarnanians, Macedonians, men of the same language [T. Livius XXXI,29, 15] “General Paulus of Rome surrounded by the ten Commissioners took his official seat surrounded by the whole crowds of Macedonians…Paulus announced in Latin the decisions of the Senate, as well as his own, made by the advice of his council. This announcement was translated into Greek and repeated by Gnaeus Octavius the Praetor-for he too was present. [T. Livius, XLV] PS: Arvanites are Hellenized Albanians! Therefore they hate Albanians thinking they are hating the cause of their missfortune.....instead should hate themselves??!!! |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:42:46 GMT -5
As kanaris stated. I will ask you too, Has there ever been any none Greek Macedonian inscriptions ever found ? If not, why not ?
Now.
Why Hesiod put's the Macedonians into the Greek family
Why the Macedonians have 100% Greek terms for themselves (Makedons), and their regions in Macedonia, the cities that they founded, the calendar months that they had, other toponyms and family names........EXPLAIN!
Why the Macedonians participated in the Olympics
Why Macedonians Lykaian Games, the Hellenic Amphictony, and other Greek festivals yet NONE of the neighboring tribes (Illyrians, Thracians, Paeonians.....) were allowed to do so.
Finally why would a non Greek become the leader of the Pan Hellenic League? Why ?
Alexander I, says he's Greek (a Macedonian)
Men of Athens... Had I not greatly AT HEART the COMMON welfare of GREECE I should not have come to tell you; but I AM MYSELF GREEK by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery. ...If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the GREEK CAUSE, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am ALEXANDER of MACEDON.'
[Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45, translated by G.Rawlinson]
Alexander III (Great) certainly felt pretty Greek
ALEXANDER TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF AND MACEDONIANS
BEING GREEK AND FIGHTING FOR GREECE:
There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service --
but how different is their cause from ours ! They will be fighting for
pay--- and not much of it at that; WE on the contrary shall fight for GREECE, and our hearts will be in it.
As for our FOREIGN troops ---Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians,
Agrianes --- they are the best and stoutest soldiers of Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia.
Arrian (The Campaigns of Alexander) Alexander talking to the troops before the battle. Book 2-7 Penguin Classics. Page 112. Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.
"But he said, ‘If I were not Alexandros, I should be Diogenes’; that is to say: `If it were not my purpose to combine barbarian things with things HELLENIC, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, TO PUSH THE BOUNDS OF MACEDONIA TO THE FARTHEST OCEAN, AND TO DISSEMINATE AND SHOWER THE BLESSINGS OF HELLENIC JUSTICE and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me Diogenes, that I imitate Herakles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysos, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and DESIRE THAT VICTORIOUS HELLENES SHOULD DANCE AGAIN in India [...]
[Plutarch's Moralia, On the Fortune of Alexander, 332A (Loeb, F.C Babbitt)
As for the Arvanites they Hellenized them self's we don't force anyone. They are proud Greeks. In my opinion the Albanians are not old natives as they would like to believe. They were first mentioned at just over 1000 AD.
Edited. Spelling corrections.
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:43:44 GMT -5
By candu4u:
Can any of you Greeks read whats on those tablets from the video and make sense of it ?
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:44:11 GMT -5
Yes.
Anyways next year if I have time ?
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:44:54 GMT -5
By cando4u:
Thats great that you can fully translate that bcs there are linguists and archaeologist that cant wait to meet you .
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:45:30 GMT -5
Can any of you Greeks read whats on those tablets from the video and make sense of it ? Yes we Greeks can make sense of them. Thats great that you can fully translate that bcs there are linguists and archaeologist that cant wait to meet you . A detailed account of metamorphosis of the Macedonian dialect of the Greek language as provided by this scholarly book from Cambridge University. Published in 2006.      Like I said the truth is out there, all we have to do is open our eyes.  Who are you to refute them ? LOL |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:46:11 GMT -5
By cando4u:
stop before you make a fool of yourself .
read them pages over a few times
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:46:39 GMT -5
^ LOL !
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:47:23 GMT -5
By teuta: ? Why not? I thought I explained: no written language. How do you want a non written language to be found...written??? But if those people didn't write their language, it doesn't mean they didn't talk and communicate among themselves...if they HAD a written language, that would be obviously Greek because was the first one (as code and invention) which was present in Balkans (as written language-not spoken) But the Macedonians started writing Greek in 5th BC...does that mean before that they didn't exist or didn't talk? Of course they talked but didn't write because didn't have the code! (Alphabet) Since there is no written language, we can presume by the antique historians that I mentioned above that there were 2 completely different dialects. Would you mind quoting if you please? I want to see what he meant by Greek "family"!!!!! Again I thought it was clear: what period are you referring??? Before (during the first millenium) or after Real Macedonias were hellenized (somewhere between 500-300 BC) ? I thought they were not...when Alexander was allowed to participate...and he was allowed after many "struggles" and after he declared he was Greek (if we want to believe Myths as he descended from)!!! But I may be wrong, so you can give me more info re: Macedonians before 500 BC that Macedonians WERE allowed to participate the Olympic games It is PanHellenic and not PanGreek...so, we're talking for the period after Macedonians Hellenized themselves....but this info is important for me to ask you why Epiriots were not accepted in the PanHellenic League...  Men of Athens...Had I not greatly AT HEART the COMMON welfare of GREECE I should not have come to tell you; but I AM MYSELF GREEK by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slaveryI am Alexander of MACEDON.... Athens...Greece...By descent...!!!!! He DECLARED himself Greek...why should I repeat that? Self-proclaimed...This word DECLARE troubles me often!!!! When one feels the necessity to declare...means one is NOT! I don't need to say: I am Albanian by descent to convince you...because you never questioned my origin...why should he then tried to convince the others for something that should not even be doubted? Again...what 1. he felt or what he wanted to be and 2. what he really was: two different things! But of course...he liked to be Greek...considered himself Greek...but spoke a different dialect...this is a speech in front of Majority Greek soldiers to edify them...it's normal what he said. If you hellenized Arvanites I would have blamed you...as you see, I am not blaming you but them...so, I know you didn't force them and I am not accusing you; instead I am reprimanding them for denying their origin and ancestors. Again: I respect their choice but I don't appriciate it! And in my opinion, Albanians and Greeks are the oldest people in Balkan if you like it or not. Because if there are historical records of Greek's arrival in Balkan (same as for other Groups) there's none for Albanians. They are mentioned in 1000 AD because it is Albanians who were mentioned: an old Illyrian tribe left "less influenced" (meaning: less Hellenized and/or Slavized)...before they used to be called Illyrians (including all tribes not each of them) and before that Pellazgians!!! |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:48:29 GMT -5
? Why not? I thought I explained: no written language. How do you want a non written language to be found...written??? But if those people didn't write their language, it doesn't mean they didn't talk and communicate among themselves...if they HAD a written language, that would be obviously Greek because was the first one (as code and invention) which was present in Balkans (as written language-not spoken) But the Macedonians started writing Greek in 5th BC...does that mean before that they didn't exist or didn't talk? Of course they talked but didn't write because didn't have the code! (Alphabet) Since there is no written language, we can presume by the antique historians that I mentioned above that there were 2 completely different dialects. Would you mind quoting if you please? I want to see what he meant by Greek "family"!!!!! Again I thought it was clear: what period are you referring??? Before (during the first millenium) or after Real Macedonias were hellenized (somewhere between 500-300 BC) ? I thought they were not...when Alexander was allowed to participate...and he was allowed after many "struggles" and after he declared he was Greek (if we want to believe Myths as he descended from)!!! But I may be wrong, so you can give me more info re: Macedonians before 500 BC that Macedonians WERE allowed to participate the Olympic games It is PanHellenic and not PanGreek...so, we're talking for the period after Macedonians Hellenized themselves....but this info is important for me to ask you why Epiriots were not accepted in the PanHellenic League... Men of Athens...Had I not greatly AT HEART the COMMON welfare of GREECE I should not have come to tell you; but I AM MYSELF GREEK by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slaveryI am Alexander of MACEDON.... Athens...Greece...By descent...!!!!! He DECLARED himself Greek...why should I repeat that? Self-proclaimed...This word DECLARE troubles me often!!!! When one feels the necessity to declare...means one is NOT! I don't need to say: I am Albanian by descent to convince you...because you never questioned my origin...why should he then tried to convince the others for something that should not even be doubted? Again...what he felt or what he wanted to be and what he really was: two different things! But of course...he liked to be Greek...considered himself Greek...but spoke a different dialect...this is a speech in fornt of soldiers to edify them...it's normal what he said. If you hellenized Arvanites, I would blamed you...as you see, I am blaming Arvanites...so, I know you didn't force them and I am not accusing you but them for denying their origin and ancestors. And in my opinion, Albanians and Greeks are the oldest people in Balkan if you like it or not. Because if for Greeks there are historical records of their arrival in Balkan (same as for other Groups in Balkan) for Albanians there's none. And they are mentioned in 1000AD because it is Albanians who were mentioned: an old Illyrian tribe remained (not Hellenized not Slavized)...before that used to be Illyrians and before that Pellazgians!!! teuta1975 you missed the whole point of the evidence presented here. Are you sure on what you wrote makes any sense to you ? Please re-read the detailed account of metamorphosis of the Macedonian dialect of the Greek language as provided by this scholarly book from Cambridge University. Published in 2006. Are they not qualified more then me and you in this field...Explains lot's try reading it.  |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:49:05 GMT -5
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:49:40 GMT -5
Miss there is nothing to struggle to comprehend but to accept reality, of the universal truth that has been established by every true none propagandist certified anthropologists, archeologist's and every academia known in this world.
That Macedonia means Greece.
By the way don't mis quote me, I did say Pan Hellenic, some of the examples.
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:50:22 GMT -5
By teuta:
I am not misquoting you! There is a point in there...Guess it!
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:50:55 GMT -5
I am not misquoting you! There is a point in there...Guess it! There is no guessing here on what's been presented your problem that we Greeks are the ones who have created this history. Another thing. It's so hard to prove your Illyrian ancestry, this is because there is absolutely no record of the illyrian language "nill, nothing". |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:51:32 GMT -5
By teuta: I love you too. Happy New Year |
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 0:53:13 GMT -5
Moved every single post here, it belongs here, want the original with the original author. For referencing at other sites or here etc; Too good to spoil  Feel free to continue to post here, your opinions or evidence. |
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