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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 28, 2007 23:52:31 GMT -5
reposting ---------- bato (1/31/06 4:18 pm) That is the biggest question of all time, Can Radical Muslims coexist in a western society ?The western society do not need Censure, that is what it stands for a free speech society where anyone's voice can be heard...Because i consider myself as a free men, artist without any radical and religious orientations i will post one of the cartoons_______________ Danish paper apologizes for publishing cartoons of prophetLast Updated Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:14:14 EST CBC News A Danish newspaper has apologized to the world's Muslims for publishing cartoons portraying the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. " We apologize for the fact that the cartoons undeniably have offended many Muslims," editor in chief Carsten Juste said in a letter on the Jyllands-Posten website Monday night. A Danish Flag is burnt in a protest, outside the European Commission building in Gaza City on Monday, Jan. 30. (AP Photo/Emilio Morenatti) " The last thing we want is to offend other people's religious views, precisely because we believe in religious freedom and respect the individual's right to choose his or her own religion." The message was also sent to Petra, a Jordan-based news agency. The 12 drawings were first published in September, but reappeared recently in a Norwegian newspaper. One showed Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse. Islamic tradition prohibits any depiction of the prophet, even a respectful one, on the grounds that it could promote idolatry. The caricatures sparked anger in the Islamic world, prompting boycotts of Danish products and threats against citizens outside the country. Saudi Arabia even recalled its ambassador to Denmark, leading Denmark to warn citizens not to travel to Saudi Arabia and be cautious in other Muslim countries. Just at first cited freedom of expression in refusing to apologize for the cartoons. Despite agreeing to post the qualified apology, he insisted the caricatures did not violate Danish law. " If we really went out and apologized, then the Middle Eastern dictatorships would be able to control what we put in our papers," Juste said in an interview with a Danish news agency. " We had no idea that this would arouse so much indignation and irritation in the Muslim world. That's what we're apologizing for.'' Anger over the drawings has heated up in recent days. On Monday, masked gunmen stormed an office used by the European Union in Gaza City to protest the cartoons. www.cbc.ca/
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 28, 2007 23:54:11 GMT -5
Dijedon (2/1/06 12:12 pm)
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Personally, I feel that the picture is tasteless. Basically, what it does is to equate Islam, the religion, with its radical fraction which naturally many Muslims take offense in.
On the other side, freedom of speech hasn't spared ridiculing the Christian faith in Western media either. Although personally I do not like ridiculing other confessions, there is, nevertheless, a freedom of speech in authentic democracies, and if Muslims want to live in such western democracies, they ought to accept all that comes with it. If they wish to remain strictly Islamic, they have the alternative of not moving to other countries where they're obliged to listen and abide to new laws.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 28, 2007 23:55:45 GMT -5
Anclation (2/2/06 2:41 pm)
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Kasandri: " I can talk bad about Christians and drag their name through the mud cause it is a free speach society?"
Indeed you can, and the harsh criticism it has endured over the last centuries is one of the reasons that European Christianity is as moderate as it is, and can work with relatively few difficulties in our secular democracies. Some people have been offended in the process of pushing the existing boundaries, but fortunately didn't resort to violence.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:02:49 GMT -5
AAdmin (2/3/06 2:03 am) New Post Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?The issue that is raised here is of vital importance, not only for Europe but for the world. The issue is (as it has been stated) can radical religious dogma (in this particular case radical Islam) coexist with modern Secular Western World that has been making cultural and political inroads in various Islamic countries (of which many are now secular). Bellow is NYT article that I am posting is also showing us that the European public is presented by similar articles in various other European countries (vanguards of the modern secular world). _____________ More European Papers Print Cartoons of Muhammad, Fueling Dispute With MuslimsBy ALAN COWELL Published: February 2, 2006 COPENHAGEN, Feb. 1 — Broadening a debate that has set Europe against the Islamic world, several European newspapers on Wednesday reprinted cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad in an unflattering light, supporting a Danish newspaper that had inspired a huge outcry in the Islamic world by publishing them in the first place.The newspapers' actions fed a sharpening debate here over freedom of expression, human rights and what the culture editor of Jyllands-Posten, the paper that first published the cartoons last September, called a "clash of civilizations" between secular Western democracies and Islamic societies.Indeed, the culture editor, Flemming Rose, said in an interview: " This is a far bigger story than just the question of 12 cartoons in a small Danish newspaper." This is about the question of integration and how compatible is the religion of Islam with a modern secular society — how much does an immigrant have to give up and how much does the receiving culture have to compromise." In recent days, Denmark has become the object of a widespread boycott of its goods in Muslim countries, its diplomats have been summoned to be dressed down in Tehran and Baghdad, and protesters have taken to the streets of Gaza. While Jyllands-Posten has apologized for giving offense, it has not apologized for publishing the cartoons, one of which depicts the prophet wearing a bomb-shaped turban. Images of Muhammad are regarded as blasphemous by many Muslims. The Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, has rejected demands by Arab governments for an official apology, saying: "I can't call a newspaper and tell them what to put in it. That's not how our society works."Mr. Rose called the decision not to apologize for printing the cartoons "a key issue of principle." Some Muslim leaders in Copenhagen have said they accept the apology from Jyllands-Posten, but Arab and Islamic governments in the Middle East have continued to express outrage. In support of the Danish position, newspapers in France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and Switzerland reprinted some of the cartoons on Wednesday. A small Norwegian evangelical magazine, Magazinet, also published the cartoons last month.The dispute has been likened to a string of earlier cultural confrontations between Islam and the West, beginning with the death sentence declared in 1989 on the British author Salman Rushdie by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in Iran after the publication of "The Satanic Verses."In 2004, a Dutch filmmaker, Theo van Gogh, was murdered after making a film called "Submission," which dealt with violence against women in Islamic societies.Robert Ménard, the secretary general of Reporters Without Borders, a Paris-based body that monitors media developments, said in a telephone interview: "All countries in Europe should be behind the Danes and Danish authorities to defend the principle that a newspaper can write what it wishes to, even if it offends people. "I understand that it may shock Muslims, but being shocked is part of the price of being informed."On Wednesday, Syria became the latest Arab country to withdraw its ambassador from Denmark, saying publication of the cartoons "constitutes a violation of the sacred principles of hundreds of millions of Arabs and Muslims," according to SANA, the Syrian state news agency. The Danish Embassy in Damascus was evacuated after a bomb threat on Wednesday, but no bomb was found. In Paris, the newspaper France Soir, printed all 12 of the cartoons in question. The newspaper declared, "No religious dogma can impose its view on a democratic and secular society."Arnaud Lévy, the editor in chief of France Soir, said there had been no coordination between European editors about publishing the cartoons simultaneously. "Absolutely not," he said in a telephone interview. In Berlin, a senior German editor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak on behalf of her employers, also said there had been no contacts among European newspapers to synchronize their coverage. France Soir's decision to publish the cartoons drew a sharp response from French Muslims. Dalil Boubakeur, leader of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, called the publication of the cartoons a "provocation" and an abuse of press freedom that was disrespectful of the world's more than one billion Muslims. " The publication of the cartoons can only revive tensions in Europe and the world at a time when we are trying to unite people," he said.In Germany, the conservative Die Welt printed one image on its front page and declared in an editorial: " The protests from Muslims would be taken more seriously if they were less hypocritical. When Syrian television showed drama documentaries in prime time depicting rabbis as cannibals, the imams were quiet."In Italy, the Turin daily La Stampa published the cartoons on Wednesday. Milan's Corriere della Sera printed them on Monday. In Spain, they were printed in El Periódico on Wednesday. Dominique von Burg, the editor in chief of Switzerland's Tribune de Genève, which planned to publish the cartoons on Thursday, told Agence France-Presse: "You can understand the feelings of Muslims, but we're in a pluralist state. We have a right to do that." The Swiss newspaper Blick published two of the cartoons on Tuesday. Freedom of expression is a closely protected right in Denmark, to the extent that the country became known in the 1970's as a haven for hard-core pornography. Niels-Erik Hansen, a lawyer at a center offering legal support for people complaining of racial discrimination, said the debate over the cartoons raised the question of whether it would provoke attacks on Denmark's 200,000 Muslims in a nation of some 5.4 million people. "There's a balance here between freedom of speech and the right not to be subjected to racial discrimination." he said. "It's a difficult line." But Carsten Juste, the editor in chief of Jyllands-Posten, said the principle to be drawn from the debate was that opponents of press freedom had secured a victory. "My guess is that no one will draw the Prophet Muhammad in Denmark in the next generation, and therefore I must say with deep shame that they have won," he said in an interview with the Danish newspaper Berlingske Tiden. Dan Bilefsky contributed reportingfrom Brussels for this article, and Judy Dempsey from Berlin.www.nytimes.com/
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:04:42 GMT -5
Fieraku (2/3/06 3:40 am)
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Listen, posting images like that of Mohammed can surely offend some religious circles but in no way can be blown out of proportion. As bato said many funny picture about Jesus has been posted all over internet. What about Jehovah's Witness? and so and so many other religions in the world.
It's not about Denmark but about the pride that these certain Muslims have. They are very religious people and will go to great extent to prove a point.
What does that say? They are radicals.
I can understand if a Muslim official comes forward and condemns peacefully with words the images posted but i cant understand or justify the act of aggression that they did to the European Union embassy.
That's not a professional and institutional way to solve the matter.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:09:25 GMT -5
glaukus 001 (2/3/06 4:29 am) Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?If you are a Muslim you will probably find the cartoons offensive (and they are offensive), especially with the b0mb one as head. BUT, think about the people who drew and published the cartoons. Did they really care? Does it matter to them making fun of Muslim symbols? I doubt it mattered much, otherwise they would have not drawn or published them. To them is freedom of speech, mixed with personnal ideas maybe, but still, they did not care. They probably knew that this would bring and they went ahead. They probably thought that they might die for this crazy adventure. So?Fatih Alev, a Danish imam, said that his country’s prime minister expressed the need for the Danish Muslim community to help in this situation.
“We are requested to clarify that the government has no say over the media,” Alev told Arab News.
Alev said that Muslims managed to deliver their message through the boycott and there has been an impact on the Danish economy.
“Now it is time to clarify that the newspaper that has apologized for publishing the cartoons was unaware about the sensitivity of this issue with Muslims,” he said, emphasizing Denmark’s separation of the media from the government’s control. BBC has a special comments section. Some people are making fun of the Middle eastern countries for their rigidity and strong/OFFICIAL/governmental reaction. The paper with the cartoons was out, published. Too late to stop it. PARIS, Feb 2, 2006 (AFP) - Several French newspapers rallied Thursday in support of France Soir after it became the first publication outside Denmark and Norway to print all 12 controversial cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.
The authoritative daily Le Monde published its own front-page depiction of Mohammed -- a drawing by cartoonist Plantu showing a bearded prophet made up of the words "I must not draw Mohammed" written repeatedly in long-hand.
"A Muslim may well be shocked by a picture of Mohammed, especially an ill-intentioned one. But a democracy cannot start policing people's opinions, except by trampling the rights of man underfoot," it said in an editorial. Here is Jordan. Even the muslim guy who tried to inform his people about the cartoons got fired: Although the cartoons originated in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten paper, they have been reprinted in newspapers in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain - all saying they were expressing free speech.
In Jordan, an independent tabloid, al-Shihan, reprinted three of the cartoons on Thursday, saying people should know what they were protesting about.
In a separate article, the newspaper's editor, Jihad Momani, urged the world's Muslims to "be reasonable" in their response to the drawings.
The paper's publishers sacked him hours later over the "shock" he had caused, Jordan's official Petra news agency reported. It could have been published on internet and with fake names. So? Does it change what they wanted to say and what they think or thet they really wanted to show? How about the FATWA against the troops? Maybe some Arab & Middle eastern regimes do not understand how the government works in the western countries, unlike in theirs where no one can play games with religion or where government controls everything ... Here is the special Saudi Arabia: To Shoot or Not to Shoot Javid Hassan & Ali Al-Zahrani, Arab News Monday, 24, October, 2005 (21, Ramadhan, 1426)
The textbook used in the ninth grade, for example, says that photography is a form of idolatry. On page 100, it states, “Depicting living creatures, animal or human, whether life-size or on paper or walls is prohibited because it imitates God’s creation.”
Commenting on the subject, Khaled Al-Atiq, one of the founders of the largest association of Saudi photographers, said: “If I am assaulted by a ninth grader, I do not blame him or her. Instead, I hold the Ministry of Education and the teachers responsible.”
He added: “Our society considers photography atheistic and perhaps thinks that a photographer is the same as an individual who consumes alcohol.”
Speaking for himself, Al-Atiq said that religious scholars were divided on which photographs to prohibit. Some argue that artists are tinkering with God’s creations. In Atiq’s words, “We do not change any of God’s creations and lack the means to do so.”
According to the photographer, religious scholars in Saudi Arabia fall into two groups — the first seek a blanket ban on photographs in daily newspapers while others are more sympathetic to the photographer’s predicament.
Sheikh Mohamed Al-Othaimeen, a well-known Islamic scholar, said: “What I see is a device which produces a picture. The individual plays no part in the process; the picture is an image of what God created. It is an impression with no intervention by the photographer. The Hadiths (sayings of the Prophet) forbid only representation which imitates the acts of God.”
Mohammed Al-Ghannam, an Islamic teacher in an intermediate school, said: “In our school we don’t allow students to draw a whole living creature. They normally draw landscapes of natural scenery without any bird or animal. For example, if one wants to draw a falcon, he draws only the body without the head. Alternatively, he could draw a line between the body and the neck. Drawing a complete bird is not permissible in Islam.”
Recently, a newspaper photographer was detained by the mutawwa (religious police) for photographing a row of trees uprooted during a sand storm in Riyadh. The reason given for his detention was that trees are God’s creation and that by photographing fallen trees, the photographer was making fun of God’s creation. - albwatch - Freedom of speech? It could be dangerous.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:10:58 GMT -5
BibleRiot(2/3/06 1:20 pm) Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?Generally, very sensible responses. The only one I would take issue is: Quote:however this time media really gets a taste of their own medicine, this is what happens when you insult a group of people, weather it is in words or picture It is precisely the idea that threatening peoples lives is "a taste of your own medicine", in response to an insult to your beliefs, that gives Islam such a bad name - unjustified or not. An important point is that the Palestinians and Moroccans may have been misled by the Danish Islamic clerics who traveled around the ME to raise this issue. Three cartoons that were NOT published by Jylands-Posten were circulated by these clerics, really offensive and gratuitously malicious ones. I think the main issue that this incident raises is the importance of ensuring that the leadership of Muslim immigrant communities understand their duty to further integration and acceptance of the parameters of Western public life. Religion here in the West is a private and spiritual matter, not a programme for the regulation of everyday life and international politics - something I think most Albs, at least, understand.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:15:07 GMT -5
bato (2/3/06 3:12 pm) Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It? What about the Muslim community of Britain celebrating the September 11-th as a GREAT DAY OF VICTORY in bases of freedom of speech?(celebrating the terrorist attacks in another country), and also never have there been a Muslim leader that took part in a holocaust memorial....But when it comes to their part of tolerance they don't want to play it.....In wester society religion is part of our lives but for Muslims here Religion rules their lives.. I wasn't comfortable with some comments by Muslim leaders in UK,... The only solution for Blasphemy is Death..When those people gonna understand the word Tolerance not just to spell it This cartoons i know are offensive but they were a test on the level of tolerance in the Muslim world...And we sow it!
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:18:55 GMT -5
glaukus 001 (2/3/06 3:29 pm) Re: The boundaries of freedom or it's censure? The whole think is being blown out of proportion and misused to further divide the Muslim & Christian communities. But, like BR wrote, some Danish clerics have done it on purpose, because some of them like to incite their believers and make theie feelings "stronger". Fabricated cartoons worsened Danish controversyIslamic Society of Denmark Used Fake Cartoons to Create StoryHey, where is the outcry for what happens every year in Saudi Arabia? Desecration in the name of what? Here is a calendar of events. (+ link). Now the extremists are using the cartoons to justify their violent actions against Iraqi churches. Meanwhile, Imam Akkari, who led the delegation that sought help from the Arab World in dealing with prejudices against Denmark's Muslim community, said it wasn't his intention to stymie the right of free speech to the country's journalists.
"Our intention was never to introduce censorship or to ban criticism of issues related to religion," Akkari emphasized. In recent years though, he points out, the Danish media focused an inordinate amount of attention on Muslim communities. "But now we are worried that the problem is escalating and that some people might get the wrong idea," he said. Akkari strongly condemned the bomb threat levelled against Jyllands-Posten and is quick to emphasize that he is dedicated to "the political path of discussion."
But despite his conciliatory tone, Danish repugnance for the harsh reaction to the caricatures among Denmark's Muslims is growing. "I can understand if someone feels their religious sensibilities have been offended," said Martin, a 25-year-old bicycle salesman. "But burning the Danish flag? That's going too far."
"In Denmark, we love irony and sarcasm," said Eminie Ehlers, 23. "I can't imagine living in a country where I am no longer allowed to voice my free opinion." Her companion Tonni Soerensen agreed. "The Muslim reaction was exaggerated in the extreme," he said. "When these imams go around telling everybody how bad we are, it's like a stab in the back." After all, he adds, the door was opened to Denmark's immigrants.
Other Aarhus inhabitants went even further. "If they don't agree with the freedom of the press, then they should go back home," said Anne Grethe, a 59-year-old who refused to give her last name. Jen, too, wanted to remain anonymous. "Most Muslims don't want this conflict," the 33-year-old said. "But I can't help thinking, if Danish companies have to lay people off as a result of the boycott, then it should be the Muslim employees who are let go first."
The escalation that concerns Akkari seems already to have arrived. BUT, Mohamed the Propht has been depicted by his own people too. History of drawings.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:20:42 GMT -5
Dijedon (2/5/06 1:04 am)
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
I have to agree with BR here!
The issue here is not whether these pictures were justified, accurate or morally in a position to depict Islam & Mohammed in such a manner. The issue here is radical Muslims not accepting the laws and norms of western, or more correctly, European countries.
As BR said, religion in Europe functions as a private matter, and shouldn't be misinterpreted with political constitutions. He who wishes to follow the religion to which he belongs can do so in his private sphere and cannot force his own beliefs into other people, and he can follow his religion as long as it isn't in conflict with the laws of the country which he inhabits. If someone ridicules his religion, he must leave the punishment to God in the afterlife, because he cannot act judge.
If the Muslims from Africa & Asia have a problem with freedom of speech, by all means, they can return to their original home countries. One has as an obligation & duty to the country one immigrates into, to integrate himself as well as follow and abide the local laws and not implement his own in another man's house! I can understand their anger and frustration, but such is democracy and freedom of speech.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:27:21 GMT -5
Fieraku (2/5/06 4:00 am)
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It? _____________
Syrians Torch Embassies Over Caricatures By ALBERT AJI, Associated Press Writer
DAMASCUS, Syria - Thousands of Syrians enraged by caricatures of Islam's revered prophet torched the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus on Saturday — the most violent in days of furious protests by Muslims in Asia, Europe and the Middle East.
In Gaza, Palestinians marched through the streets, storming European buildings and burning German and Danish flags. Protesters smashed the windows of the German cultural center and threw stones at the European Commission building, police said.
Iraqis rallying by the hundreds demanded an apology from the European Union, and the leader of the Palestinian group Hamas called the cartoons "an unforgivable insult" that merited punishment by death.
Pakistan summoned the envoys of nine Western countries in protest, and even Europeans took to the streets in Denmark and Britain to voice their anger.
At the heart of the protest: 12 caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad first published in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten in September and reprinted in European media in the past week. One depicted the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse. The paper said it had asked cartoonists to draw the pictures because the media was practicing self-censorship when it came to Muslim issues.
The drawings have touched a raw nerve in part because Islamic law is interpreted to forbid any depictions of the Prophet Muhammad.
Aggravating the affront, Denmark's Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen has said repeatedly he cannot apologize for his country's free press. But other European leaders tried Saturday to calm the storm.
Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel said she understood Muslims were hurt — though that did not justify violence.
"Freedom of the press is one of the great assets as a component of democracy, but we also have the value and asset of freedom of religion," Merkel told an international security conference in Munich, Germany.
The Vatican deplored the violence but said certain provocative forms of criticism were unacceptable.
"The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in its first statement on the controversy.
The United States called the burnings "inexcusable" and blamed the Syrian government for security failures.
" Syria must act decisively to protect all foreign embassies and citizens in Damascus from attack," White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said in a statement. "We will hold Syria responsible for such violent demonstrations since they do not take place in that country without government knowledge and support."
But Denmark and Norway did not wait for more violence.
With their Damascus embassies up in flames, the foreign ministries advised their citizens to leave Syria without delay.
"It's horrible and totally unacceptable," Danish Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller said on Danish public television Saturday.
No diplomats were injured in the Syrian violence, officials said. But Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds — whose country, along with Chile, has an embassy in the same building — said she would lodge a formal protest over the lack of security.
In Santiago, the Chilean Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the Chilean Embassy in Damascus was also torched but nobody was injured.
The demonstrations in Damascus began peacefully with protesters gathering outside the building housing the Danish Embassy. But they began throwing stones and eventually broke through police barricades. Some scrambled up concrete barriers protecting the embassy, climbed into the building and set a fire.
"With our blood and souls we defend you, O Prophet of God!" the demonstrators chanted. Some removed the Danish flag and replaced it with a green flag printed with the words: "There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God."
Demonstrators moved onto the Norwegian Embassy about 4 miles away, also setting fire to it before being dispersed by police using tear gas and water cannons. Hundreds of police and troops barricaded the road leading to the French Embassy, but protesters were able to break through briefly before fleeing from the force of water cannons.
Amid the furor, Syria's Grand Mufti urged calm, noting the demonstration had started in a "nice and disciplined way," but then turned violent because of "some members who do not understand the language of dialogue."
"We never expressed our anger in such a way, and we believe that dialogue should be done through guidance and teaching, not through killing, harming and burning," Sheik Ahmed Badr-Eddine Hassoun said in remarks carried by state-run Syrian Arab News Agency, or SANA.
In Gaza, masked gunmen affiliated with the Fatah Party called on the Palestinian Authority and Muslim nations to recall their diplomatic missions from Denmark until the government apologizes.
In the West Bank town of Hebron, about 50 Palestinians marched to the headquarters of the international observer mission there, burned a Danish flag and demanded a boycott of Danish goods.
"We will redeem our prophet Muhammad with our blood!" they chanted.
Mahmoud Zahar, leader of the militant Palestinian group Hamas, told the Italian daily Il Giornale the cartoonists should be punished by death.
"We should have killed all those who offend the Prophet and instead here we are, protesting peacefully." he said.
Hundreds of Iraqis rallied south of Baghdad, some carrying banners urging "honest people all over the world to condemn this act" and demanding an EU apology.
Anger swelled in Europe, too. Young Muslims clashed briefly with police in Copenhagen, the Danish capital, and some 700 people rallied outside the Danish Embassy in London.
A South African court banned the country's Sunday newspapers from reprinting the cartoons.
Iran's president ordered his commerce minister to study canceling all trade contracts with European countries whose newspapers have published the caricatures, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the caricatures showed the "impudence and rudeness" of Western newspapers against the prophet as well as the "maximum resentment of the Zionists (Jews) ruling these countries against Islam and Muslims."
The leaders of Indonesia, Malaysia and Pakistan denounced the publication of the caricatures. Pakistan's Foreign Ministry summoned nine envoys to lodge protests against the publication of the "blasphemous" sketches.
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In my opinion Syria by attacking the Danish embassy has waged a war against Denmark. The embassy is an international soil.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:28:45 GMT -5
AAdmin (2/5/06 5:37 am)
Re: The boundaries of freedom or it's censure?
What I find peculiar and illogical (illogical cause the main driving force is emotion, in this particular case rage) is that some of these radical and obviously fundamentalist Muslims are playing exactly into what they are being depicted as in the cartoons and that is as a ticking time bomb with their open calls of violence and finally acts of violence themselves.
There is clearly an overblown reaction that in my opinion is not overblown but probably carefully orchestrated by more extremist circles who are using any excuse (regardless whether such excuse could be deemed as logical or not) to ferment more extremism and more outright hate towards anyone who dares to touch their 'sacred' and dogma driven perceptions.
What is really in question here.
On one hand, there is a tasteless depiction by local media of extremist Muslims but for this to be used for inciting such large scale hate driven extremism can not be possibly acceptable for the modern secular western world (in which I include China, India and Japan - especially in this case).
On the other hand, certain fundamentalist totalitarian governments (without any true legal legitimacy whatsoever) are influencing their followers (who are more then likely a small minority even in their own respected countries where such governments are not elected by the people but rather forced on them) in the secular modern world to react in a manner that in way cannot be deemed as reflective of the kind of behavior that a educated modern citizen of the world is expected to act in.
Also, is the western world to restrict freedom for speech in the western secular world and modify the basic tenants of the western/global civilization because a group of hate-filled extremists regards freedom of expression as a major threat to braking down dogma that are keeping certain parts of the world in intellectual darkness (in a similar manner that dark ages kept Europe in intellectual darkness in the middle ages).
Or, are we to continue modernizing and secularising parts of the world where dogma has been unquestioned for so long - the very dogma that stands in direct contradiction of such world. Should be choose progress or dogma, hmmm.
Western countries can easily regard religious fundamentalism of any kind as one of the biggest threats to the overall progress of humanity and as a result might feel a need to see this addressed in a most serious and urgent manner possibility by all the strongest world powers with seeking a consensus as to how to deal with such a threat. It can be regarded that Planet as a whole has become too small for any one region to be ignored globally speaking. It can be said that fundamentalists are obviously asking for attention and they can easily get much more of it then they have bargained for.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:31:48 GMT -5
Fieraku (2/5/06 6:05 am)
Re: The boundaries of freedom. Or Censure of It?
I I was talking about this issue with my family members at lunch today and i came to conclusion the same as Aadmin.
I think this is overblown out of proportion. These people don't understand the international rules, they are blinded by religion but i am pretty sure the developed Western World and Eastern World(japan and co) will make sure to isolate these people.
The middle-eastern world needs to fight these radicals themselves. They need to emancipate. Their society needs to emancipate. Their books need to emancipate. Their woman need to emancipate. Their politics need to emancipate. They should do that not only for the sake of Western world(the threat that they pose to us) but for the sake of their own people, children, and future generation so they can have a better life.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:34:25 GMT -5
Red Brigade10 (2/5/06 3:10 pm)
Re: The boundaries of freedom. Or Censure of It?
I am mad when i see how these religious leaders are using Islam for their own personal interest$.
The western Imperialists and their deluded supporters are shoving their hands from joy that these people are using such ridiculous tactics to defend their religion. They are preparing the public opinion for their Crusades.
I am very concerned with this anti-Muslim hysteria, which is propagated by the media, that is engulfing Europe. I only hope that there wont be another Holocaust in Europe. This time against the Muslims.
After all it was Europe that gave birth to anti-antisemitism..not Middle East.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:36:43 GMT -5
desire yearning (2/5/06 9:02 pm)
Re: The boundaries of freedom. Or Censure of It?
You know what....
This isn't about Islam or Hz Muhammad. its about how they can provoke extremists to react... and as an anecdote to that reaction how America shall intervene.
In the political environment of the last 5 years its not appropriate. Today a Priest was shot dead in a Church built by an Ottoman Pa$a for the Christian worshipers...
kinda ironic huh?
In my opinion yea its cool to do these things... sop come on guys.. who is gonna draw cartoons about gay Greeks..? who wants to show Jesus as a crack head?.. lets draw how the holocaust was a lie.. freedom of press or the beginning of anarchy i dunno i don't get it.
where is the line between freedom and provocation.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:40:39 GMT -5
Fieraku(2/5/06 9:12 pm) Re: The boundaries of freedom. Or Censure of It? I Lets show the other side of view I would like to be fair and objective and show you the other side of the story. An article that criticizes Europe and the European attitude and tells how many Muslims are sick and tired of being unfairly labeled as bin Laden sympathizers. After Ibn Warraqs article, Jürgen Gottschlich, a German journalist living in Istanbul offers his rebuttal. _____________ European Arrogance Versus Muslim FanaticismBy Jürgen Gottschlich in Istanbul In the beginning, everything seemed simple. A book author had trouble finding artists willing to create a few humorous drawings to illustrate a book he was writing about the Prophet Muhammad. Taking its cue from Germany's tabloid Bild -- infamous for launching populist crusades of its own -- Denmark's largest-circulation newspaper Jyllands-Posten took on the challenge. It called on Danish cartoonists to find the cajones to finally take on the dim-witted mullahs, potential honor killers and "goat fuckers" and tell them what they really thought. Graphically, of course, so that these illiterates could understand. After all, this is beautiful Denmark, where, thankfully, for the past few years we've stopped letting these people sponge off our social system. The policy was a total success. The intended recipients of the message got it loud and clear. And they even responded with the expected howls of indignation. They ran to the government and to the courts -- just so they could be officially told: This is how things work around here in Denmark. Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen was thrilled and saw no reason whatsoever to rebuke the heroic free speech champions at Jyllands-Posten. For their part, the courts essentially ruled that Denmark should have the freedom of opinion necessary to finally show the Muslims who really has the upper hand. Europe's most xenophobic governmentIndeed, since taking office the motto of Denmark's right-leaning government has essentially been: If you don't fit into to our society, then go back where you came from. No other European government operates with such open xenophobia as the Danish. Voters like it, too. After all, they say to themselves, we're talking about immigrants who are really just freeloaders who don't share "our values." Danish Muslims, who have had this message pounded into their heads for far too long, finally got it. And they went "home." They couldn't find anyone in Denmark who would listen to them, so they left and sought support at the powerful Al-Aqsa mosque in Cairo, a major doctrinal center in Islam. Since then, the heroes of free speech have been shaking in their boots. No longer is the issue merely that of belittling an immigrant group. Now it's time for feigned apologies. A number of free speech heroes in Europe saw a chance to profit from the situation and quickly postured as lighthouses of freedom. Nevertheless, Jyllands-Posten and Rasmussen are in a pinch -- they have no idea how to defuse the situation and escape it unscathed. Who knew, they must be asking themselves, that Muslims around the world would suddenly grow irate, boycott Danish products and commit acts of violence against Danish and -- thanks to the other heroes of free speech -- other European institutions. No, there's no way we could have expected that -- it's totally surreal. Over a few caricatures? This can't be real! We have to be allowed to draw cartoons. Of course, anything is allowed if people are stupid enough to cross the line. In a short interview on the German public broadcaster ZDF, Al-Jazeera's German correspondent got straight to the point. For many years, Europe's Muslim immigrants have had the feeling, that they are constantly being criticized and that they no longer enjoy any respect whatsoever. This powder keg of frustration and anger is overflowing and any action could set it off. And that's just how Muslim immigrants in Europe feel. And that's also how Muslims elsewhere feel. There's a general feeling among Muslims that they are regarded by the West as Osama bin Laden's secret sympathizers. Poverty vs. arrogance?Even in a secular Muslim country like Turkey, where only a few members of hardcore religious parties demonstrated at the Danish embassy in Istanbul, frustration with "the West" has grown in recent years. A lot of that has to do with the reaction of a large part of Europe to Turkey's desire to join the European Union. And it also has to do with the way in which the West's leading power has acted in Iraq. But while Turkey may have kept its composure, the Danes have sent sparks flying in many other Muslim countries. Just as there are heroes of free speech in Denmark, there are also heroes -- from the Arabian Peninsula to North Africa to Indonesia -- who are ready to take to the barricades to defend their prophet's dignity. So have we reached the long talked about conflict of civilizations? If we keep working at it, we may soon enough. On the one side, you have religious fanaticism and poverty -- on the other you have arrogance and people who fear for their own prosperity. Taken together, it's a highly explosive mix. Instead of participating in a disingenuous battle for free speech, it is high time for some in Europe to return to the virtues of Enlightenment to help them find reason. The situation is difficult enough already and there are idiots on all sides. Indeed, neither is free of guilt. One can only hope that people will listen to the voice of reason that came from the United Nations headquarters on Friday. Secretary General Kofi Annan urged Arabs to accept the apology given by the editors of Jyllands-Posten and said: "I share the distress of the Muslim friends who feel that the cartoon offends their religion. I also respect the right of freedom of speech. But of course freedom of speech is never absolute. It entails responsibility and judgment." Both have been seriously lacking of late.link
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:42:26 GMT -5
Osmano(2/6/06 1:40 am) Re: The boundaries of freedom or it's censure? Lighten up, Muslim dudes There is a good side of the cartoons for the Muslims: it's sort of God's gift to the Muslim Ummah as a whole. It has for a long long time been extremely split with Shias and Sunnis hating on one another, rising nationalism among Muslims who superiourize their own nation over other particular Muslim nations although, Islamically, we're all no better than anyone but all EQUAL! These cartoons have FORCED Muslims worldwide to put their differences aside for once and unite against a common thing. Which is theoretically speaking really amazing for the Muslim Ummah. It's quite funny but we should sort of thank Jyllands-Posten for FINALLY uniting us
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:48:50 GMT -5
Admin (2/9/06 7:45 am) Re: The boundaries of freedom or it's censure? _______________ Contest for Cartoons Mocking the Holocaust Announced in TehranBy NAZILA FATHI Published: February 8, 2006 TEHRAN, Feb. 7 — Iran's largest newspaper on Tuesday announced an international competition for Holocaust cartoons to retaliate against the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in Danish newspapers last year. The daily newspaper Hamshahri, which is run by the capital's municipal government, said the competition was co-sponsored by the House of Caricatures, a Tehran exhibit hall for cartoons. It said further information would be announced next week. The paper said it wanted to see whether freedom of expression extended to mocking the Holocaust. It invited foreign cartoonists to enter the contest. "The serious question for Muslims is whether the West extends freedom of expression to the crimes committed by the United States and Israel, or an event such as the Holocaust," the daily said. "Or is its freedom only for insulting religious sanctities?"In a twist on the way some Americans renamed French fries "freedom fries," the Commerce Ministry called for changing the name of Danish pastry to that of a flower named after Muhammad, according to the Iranian Student News Agency. The idea was proposed in a letter to the ministry, the press agency said. The cartoon contest announcement came a day after hundreds of demonstrators hurled stones and gasoline bombs at the Danish Embassy here. Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, praised the protests in a speech on Tuesday, comparing the cartoons to questioning the Holocaust. "In this freedom, casting doubt or negating the genocide of the Jews is banned but insulting the beliefs of 1.5 billion Muslims is allowed," he said of Western press freedom, according to the official Islamic Republic News Agency. "The reaction of the Muslim world was in time, and they were right to react this way," Ayatollah Khamenei was quoted as saying. "This anger is not targeted at Christians but at those who planned this conspiracy."The ayatollah was referring to the reaction of European leaders last year after Iran's conservative president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, called the Holocaust a myth and called for the destruction of Israel. The Foreign Ministry has announced that it plans to hold a seminar to examine the veracity of the Holocaust but has set no date for it. www.nytimes.com/
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:49:42 GMT -5
AAdmin (2/9/06 8:06 am)
Re: The boundaries of freedom or it's censure?
So what it appears to be the case now is that some Muslims are making a rather intelligent comeback (as opposed to behaviors exhibited in Damascus and Beirut). Their reasoning appears to be something along the lines of - if Denmark caricatures were simply examples of artistic free expressions lets see how far can we go with more of such artistic free expressions (examples are depicting pro-Nazi art, anti-holocaust art or anti-christian art). They appear to be trying to see whether the West will remain democratic and open-minded after such artistic pieces of free expression are displayed or will the West show that it has double standards and thus that it is actually hypocritical (in which case the value of their opinion would surely diminish - or at least seems to be the reasoning).
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 29, 2007 0:52:28 GMT -5
AAdmin (2/10/06 10:31 am) Re: The boundaries of freedom or it's censure? _____________ EU Presidency Decries Muslims' Anti-Jewish Cartoon CampaignBy Susan Jones CNSNews.com Senior Editor February 09, 2006 (CNSNews.com) - The Austrian presidency of the European Union has condemned a campaign launched by a Belgium-based Muslim party, which reacted to the publication of caricatures of Mohammed by posting cartoons lampooning such sensitive issues as the Holocaust. The Arab European League (AEL) says it plans to publish a "daring" new cartoon every day. Those posted on its website so far include one showing Hitler in bed with the Dutch teenage Holocaust victim Anne Frank, and two suggesting the Holocaust was exaggerated or a myth. Another deals with female genital mutilation, and includes a character believed to depict Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somalia-born Dutch politician who campaigns against the practice, and who has faced death threats over her criticism of Islam. AEL's Lebanese-born founder, Dyab Abou Jahjah, said on the site that the organization had "decided to enter the cartoon business and to use our right to artistic expression." "Just like the newspapers in Europe claim that they only want to defend the freedom of speech and do not desire to stigmatize Muslims, we also do stress that our cartoons are not meant as an offense to anybody and ought not to be taken as a statement against any group, community or historical fact."Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schussel said he was shocked by the material published by AEL. "I call on all concerned to end this spiral of reciprocal provocations and insults," he said. "Neither disparaging caricatures of Mohammed nor the denial of the Holocaust or shameful jokes about the Holocaust have any place in a world where cultures and religions should live side by side in a spirit of mutual respect."Holocaust denial is a criminal offense under hate-speech laws in a number of European countries, and a pro-Israel group in the Netherlands lodged a formal complaint about the AEL cartoons. Ronny Naftaniel of the Center for Information and Documentation on Israel (CIDI) in The Hague said in a statement the AEL caricatures were "a nightmare for the thousands of Jewish victims of the Holocaust who are still alive." He also questioned why AEL felt it necessary to vent its anger over the Mohammed cartoons against Jews. Jahjah responded to the complaints by arguing that "all we are trying to do is to confront Europe with its own hypocrisy." He said the cartoon campaign would continue "and we will not be intimidated by the ridiculous [lawsuit] that was filed against us in the Netherlands."www.cnsnews.com/
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