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Post by Arxileas on May 16, 2008 6:56:42 GMT -5
I don't know if these have been posted before, but are relevant as evidence to the once thriving Greek community in Monastiri. And yet the skops have the audacity to accuse us of ethnic-cleansing and cultural genocide. From the book Pictures From The Balkans by John Foster Fraser - Eastern question (Balkan) - 1906 Greeks, Bulgarians and the Archbishoporic of Ohrid Serbian Macedonia A Historical Survay by Pavle Popovic 1918 New York Times December 27th of 1902
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Post by terroreign on May 16, 2008 14:40:38 GMT -5
Good thing the town is back in Macedonian hands.
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Post by Kassandros on May 16, 2008 14:55:29 GMT -5
The town is in Bulgarian hands. The Macedonians are the ones in the pictures Einstein. Of course we speak about the real Macedonians.. right?
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Post by terroreign on May 16, 2008 15:10:52 GMT -5
Real macedonians speak makedonski Greeks speak hellenic, bulgarians, bulgar Clear enough for you dear?
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Post by Kassandros on May 17, 2008 4:07:39 GMT -5
"Real macedonians speak makedonski" ------------------------------------------------ Alexander the Great or King Phillip where not real Macedonians for you Terroreign? I think both of them... didnt use that "makedonski" language you reffer to. ..or you have at least ONE example that they use it... at least ONE time? PS. for the record... I can show 1000 WRITEN stones with their language being the Hellenic one... do you have at least 1 written stones or something that prooves your sayings? ..lol lol lol ...why do I have the feeling that you dont? lol lol Ah bre Balkanic Turkocommounist waist... life is not easy when it contains questions.. eh? lol lol
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Post by terroreign on May 18, 2008 15:47:06 GMT -5
^How do you know they didnt use makedonski, no written evidence doesnt mean it didnt exist Proto-slavs existed in Alexanders time thats a fact
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Post by Kassandros on May 18, 2008 16:37:28 GMT -5
"no written evidence doesnt mean it didnt exist" --------------------------------------------- yes it mean. We have written evidence from almost all ancient civilizations. Dont you find it weird that from the Macedonian one... most propably the biggest one... there are ONLY Greek findings?
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Post by terroreign on May 18, 2008 17:04:33 GMT -5
Why no written evidence for the basque people? Or the albanian?
Hmm think a little harder...
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Post by Kassandros on May 19, 2008 14:55:24 GMT -5
I repeat; "the Macedonian one... most propably the BIGGEST one... there are ONLY Greek findings?" .. THE BIGGEST ONE with hundrends of town builted and libraries around the known world... dont you find it weird to compare 2 isolated into the mountains nations... with the builders of libraries from Syria and Babylon to Egypt? I'm sure Terro... something should have been saved..
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on May 28, 2008 8:28:33 GMT -5
I agree. Terro is confused Albo-montenegrin that knows nothing about the so called Macedonians. As it is obvious by the HISTORIC DATA there were no Macedonians in the national sense but in the geographical sense. The so called Macedonians were Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks, Vlachs...just like the Thracians today: Bulgarians, Greeks and Turks from Thrace...
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Post by terroreign on May 28, 2008 15:31:23 GMT -5
^Thats not what Goce Delcev said
You tartar!!
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Panos
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Post by Panos on May 28, 2008 19:08:57 GMT -5
^How do you know they didnt use makedonski, no written evidence doesnt mean it didnt exist Proto-slavs existed in Alexanders time thats a fact You can't prove pink unicorns don't exist on Pluto. A normal person wouldn't act on that 0.00001% degree of uncertainty & believe that pink unicorns do in fact exist on Pluto. Basing an opinion on a small degree of doubt in the face of vast contradicting, albeit not conclusive, evidence is not the actions of a wise person. The Ancient Macedonians wrote in Greek, made books in Greek, were able to communicate with Athenians & Spartans with little difficulty suggesting it is very likely they spoke Greek. Their culture was Greek. Their is no evidence of a Slavic presence in the Balkans at the time. Now none of this is conclusive 100% proof, but to look at this and go; "A HA! They were Slavs" is to be a wee bit daft.
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Post by terroreign on May 30, 2008 13:41:42 GMT -5
^Point taken
However, if there were a group of people claiming they were pink unicorns, due to democracy and self-determination, they would be able to do so.
And if they wanted to claim they came from pluto, and that Pluto is their homeland, this will be respected.
Do you get my point yet?
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MiG
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Post by MiG on May 30, 2008 21:52:00 GMT -5
^ Beautifully put Terro. <------------------------ Sorry Greek or English only on Greek subforums ------------------------------------------------
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Post by Kassandros on May 31, 2008 3:54:59 GMT -5
"And if they wanted to claim they came from pluto, and that Pluto is their homeland, this will be respected." -------------------------------------------------------------------- So... 2,5 million Macedonians in Greece and 1 million Macedonians outside Greece.... say they are Macedonians and they have nothing to do racial or ethnologicaly with the citizens of Fyrom. Their will for self determination as Macedonians of non Slavic origin should be respected too or not..?
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Panos
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Post by Panos on Jun 3, 2008 2:03:45 GMT -5
^Point taken However, if there were a group of people claiming they were pink unicorns, due to democracy and self-determination, they would be able to do so. And if they wanted to claim they came from pluto, and that Pluto is their homeland, this will be respected. Do you get my point yet? That was not your original point. You were arguing from history. But lets take this ball and run with it. To be honest with you, if my Northerly Neighbours were not producing Government sanctioned maps including Greece, were not churning out Communist era propaganda & didn't continuously support nationalist thugs; I would have no objection to the use of the name Macedonia. As it turns out, the ulterior motive of Novamacedonia is abundantly clear, thus they cannot join international organisations with such hostility toward a would be ally. Contorting history and making unfounded assertions is one thing, but doing so to usurp land is another. Let me state I agree with you on some points, not entirely, but in essence. Novamacedonia as a separate nation exists and has every right to. Novamacedonians as a separate nationality exists and have every right to. This is not to be confused with ethnicity, because ethnicity doesn't exist for anyone. Although I do not agree with the name they choose for themselves (Republic of Macedonia), they do have a right to exist as something other than Serbs or Bulgarians - as individuals. They are simply separate because they say they are. Most Greek nationalists will not agree with this point, but it is a basic human right & to not agree with this point is to disgrace the great secular thinkers of Ancient Greece; those who the nationalist zealots are always taking credit for.
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Post by Kassandros on Jun 7, 2008 15:52:48 GMT -5
Pano there is not even one Greek against their will to live separate from Bulgarians. Never. Not even today that things are getting out of control. If Bulgarians dont have a problem.... why should we have. The problem is the name they have choosen... not their existence.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
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Post by rex362 on Jun 21, 2008 10:27:21 GMT -5
Monastiri a once prosperous Greek town!!
bs
maybe for merchants .....the Manastir -Selanik- Korca triangle trading corridor
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Post by Kassandros on Jun 21, 2008 12:25:54 GMT -5
So, the photo showing thousand of Monastiri citizens on the streets welcoming the Greek army or the photo in the begging of this thread...... shows us... merchants? Too many Greek merchants Rex. Even the center of Athens has not so many enterprises..
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 24, 2008 0:47:06 GMT -5
There were a number of Albanians that were happy when the Greek army entered Korca during WWII, you may find some actual photo's of it. Their erroneous feelings were corrected a days later when Greeks troops beat down people carrying Albanian flags. Photographs can be very very deceiving.
Oh please, I havnt met a single Greek who has ever stated that he/she is 'Macedonian' when they presented their ethnicity. Its always 'Greek'. Perhaps within Greece this may matter, but not outside it.
The mistake you guys make is that you deny what has occurred in the middle ages and in early modern times. In your quest to find some imaginary link to the ancients you ignore any other shift or delegitimize them. The fact is that Macedonia became a regional term during the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman period and lost its ethnonymic significance. You guys are trying to restore the latter ignoring the long history of the former. There are many people besides Greeks who viewed themselves as Macedonians a while back, hell even a prominent Albanian Catholic priest evoked the 'Macedonian heritage' during the middle ages while acknowledging his Albanian origin, now you guys are trying to monopolize the term ignoring the historical shift.
You guys have even done the same thing with Epirus, once again ignoring the fact that 'Epirot' lost its ethnonymic meaning and became regional term that included people besides Greeks.
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