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Post by Arxileas on May 21, 2008 20:46:56 GMT -5
Okay... other than 'guessing' what else have scientist deduced from this image from the Hubble so far? That the Universe is a three dimensional and is a living entity with some sort of conscious and that it responds to our thoughts and emotions. homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/hologram.htmlwww.angelfire.com/oh2/peterr/hologram/objectivereality.htmlThe anceints knew and understood this, from anceint Greeks to anceint Chinese and anceint Egyptians. The works of Pribram and Bohm combine to theorize that ,"Our brains mathematically construct 'concrete' reality by interpreting frequencies from another dimension, a realm of meaningful, patterned primary reality that transcends time and space. The brain is a hologram, interpreting a holographic universe." (The Holographic Paradigm, by Ken Wilber 1982) Dr. Bohm suggests that the holographic view of the universe is the beginning point of understanding the implicate enfolded and the explicate unfolded orders. The hologram concept holds that every piece, however small, is an exact representation of the whole, and can be used to reconstruct the whole. In 1971, Dennis Gabor received the Nobel Peace Prize for constructing the first hologram. It was a lens-less photograph in which a wave field of light scattered by an object was recorded as an interference pattern on a plate. He placed a laser beam -- coherent light -- on the hologram or photograph recording, and the original wave pattern was regenerated in a three dimensional image. Dr. Karl Pribram, during the course of ten years, showed that the human brain's deep structure is holographic. The brain structures hearing, sight, smell, and taste holographically. He demonstrated this by the sophisticated analysis of temporal and spatial frequencies. Pribram states that the net result of the activities of the brain transcends time and space.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 22, 2008 9:21:21 GMT -5
My question was which scientist discovered/created Logic.
What gave us the power to use our minds?
Why do we differ from each other- thoughts and such.
If we go by science and no God then we haven't a consciousness.
I think that rather than denouncing god for science we should look at how science can be enhanced and thank god for our brains and ask God how to use them wiser.
Which scientist can say for certain what happens after we die? how are our cells programmed to know when its time to stop living? Look at how complex society is and today still scientists are still putting blind mice into mazes looking for answers.
Don't get me wrong I love science - that doesn't mean I can't be religious.
To believe in science it to be able to reason. Denouncing God isn't very reasonable since you haven't any hard facts to deny God.
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Post by Toskaliku on May 22, 2008 15:28:34 GMT -5
What I say to your response is this: show me God and let him answer questions. if you dont get it by now then you are really thick. There is no evidence for a God in terms of visibility and physicallity. We have nothing to corroborate him, all we have are some books written by men; often hundreds of years after revelations were made speaking of holy things doing things which nobody in our age; nor in the age when the books were compiled do. The burden of proof does not rely on us proving that there is no god, its on you to prove that there is one. Science doesnt say that it has all the answers, thats what research is for. We dont know, yet. But realize that modern thought is relatively new and knowledge of the universe has only really been expanded in the last 50 years or so; and of those, much has been in the last 20.
You havnt got any facts to prove it either. And again, the burden of proof is not on atheists and science, its on religion. Remember, you guys rely on faith which does not rely on logic, but belief.
Doesnt mean that god exists. We dont know yet; and very likely, the live world will never know, which is why there will always be religion, but it doesnt mean that its right.
Completely wrong.
They dont. They try as hard as possible to continue... however we weaken as we get older.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 22, 2008 16:08:12 GMT -5
What I say to your response is this: show me God and let him answer questions. if you dont get it by now then you are really thick. There is no evidence for a God in terms of visibility and physicallity. We have nothing to corroborate him, all we have are some books written by men; often hundreds of years after revelations were made speaking of holy things doing things which nobody in our age; nor in the age when the books were compiled do. The burden of proof does not rely on us proving that there is no god, its on you to prove that there is one. Science doesnt say that it has all the answers, thats what research is for. We dont know, yet. But realize that modern thought is relatively new and knowledge of the universe has only really been expanded in the last 50 years or so; and of those, much has been in the last 20. . The proof that there is God is the fact u can breath. This isn't a court of Law, the burdon of proof isn't upon any of us. LOL Anyhow Im here for people who understood what I asked.
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Post by jerryspringer on May 22, 2008 16:10:24 GMT -5
Correction: she's partially Bulgarian.
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 22, 2008 23:15:59 GMT -5
Desire wrote: Good point Desire...and the most funny thing in Religion (Christian) is that God created man similar to his image..
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Post by Toskaliku on May 22, 2008 23:32:53 GMT -5
That might have been proof for an illiterate Arabian Bedouin(Mohammed) or a uneducated Palestinian carpenter (Jesus), or a bunch of ex-slave Hebrews, but certainly not enough for any educated person in the modern age.
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Post by philopoemen81 on May 22, 2008 23:40:50 GMT -5
What I say to your response is this: show me God and let him answer questions. if you dont get it by now then you are really thick. There is no evidence for a God in terms of visibility and physicallity. We have nothing to corroborate him, all we have are some books written by men; often hundreds of years after revelations were made speaking of holy things doing things which nobody in our age; nor in the age when the books were compiled do. The burden of proof does not rely on us proving that there is no god, its on you to prove that there is one. Science doesnt say that it has all the answers, thats what research is for. We dont know, yet. But realize that modern thought is relatively new and knowledge of the universe has only really been expanded in the last 50 years or so; and of those, much has been in the last 20. You havnt got any facts to prove it either. And again, the burden of proof is not on atheists and science, its on religion. Remember, you guys rely on faith which does not rely on logic, but belief. Doesnt mean that god exists. We dont know yet; and very likely, the live world will never know, which is why there will always be religion, but it doesnt mean that its right. Completely wrong. They dont. They try as hard as possible to continue... however we weaken as we get older. Good points Toskali. Although I'm not an athiest, I think the things you say are excellent points. I think most (not all) people in this debate are interested only in thinking as simplistically as possible about the issue. My personal conclusion: If you know how to intellectually keep your beliefs separate from science, your faith will be fine. If theists don't even try to know the questions, let alone the answers they are always going to look foolish in arguments like these.
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Post by Niklianos on May 23, 2008 2:06:02 GMT -5
I have a question for those of you who lean towards the God side.
If God is the only explanation for why things exist, then why did God give us a mind that questions his/her existence? Wouldn't it just be easier to have created us to not question and thus never having so many thousands of belief systems in the world?
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Post by Niklianos on May 23, 2008 2:08:38 GMT -5
My question was which scientist discovered/created Logic. What gave us the power to use our minds? Why do we differ from each other- thoughts and such. If we go by science and no God then we haven't a consciousness. I think that rather than denouncing god for science we should look at how science can be enhanced and thank god for our brains and ask God how to use them wiser. Which scientist can say for certain what happens after we die? how are our cells programmed to know when its time to stop living? Look at how complex society is and today still scientists are still putting blind mice into mazes looking for answers. Don't get me wrong I love science - that doesn't mean I can't be religious. To believe in science it to be able to reason. Denouncing God isn't very reasonable since you haven't any hard facts to deny God. That is a stretch. So why is that Great Apes have a consciousness? I suppose it could be broken down to this for those of you with faith, do you support everything in the Old and New Testaments and if not why?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 23, 2008 6:40:37 GMT -5
Anyhow Im here for people who understood what I asked. Desire, dont worry, if they keep denying the obvious Anyways, you asked about logic. Logic is a set of primitives, axioms, the truth of which is taken for granted, and can be extended, to build lemmas and theorems, which in turn have the validity of the axioms and this way we can recursively extend this set of truths. Logic is based on the assumption that the axioms are universally adopted. Thus a greek an arab and an (educated) alb could communicate their scientific findings/proofs/etc... It can be said that Propositional Calculus is the base/mother/prerequisite of All Sciences. Using Logic, we can prove that God exists in less than 20-10 lines. Someone wanna try?
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Post by chalkedon on May 23, 2008 7:29:35 GMT -5
I want to ask all the atheists one question... Why do we have emotions then ? Isnt that obsolete in the scheme of things We should be no different than the average mammal running around since all of our beginnings came from the same source..Why are we different as humans ? There is a God..it might not be christian...for sure he aint muslim, but there is something. I mean statistcally speaking..none of us should be here typing on the keyboard. The odds of this happening is like a trillion to 1 ? I mean life just being created by a big bang ?? thats just absurd ! LOL !!! Occams Razor anyone The ancient Greeks knew best...they dedicated an alter to the " Unknown God " and Socrates summed it up best by saying " I know, I know nothing " Yasas...
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Post by SKORIC on May 23, 2008 9:10:57 GMT -5
^The average mammal doesnt have emotions? Dogs, primeapes dont have emotions? Emotions in humans are much more advanced then a primeapes because we've evolved from these creatures. But that doesnt mean they dont have emotions..
Evolution, the dinosaurs, the universe all disproved religion. Religion cant keep changing their stories over and over. Why didnt jesus and mohammad tell us of these things back then? Noah got 2 of every animal in the world and put them on his ship when the world flooded? What about kangaroos, koala's and other animals that werent dicovered yet at that time? (since australia wasnt discovered yet). and the other thousands of species that hadnt been discovered yet??
Moses freed the jews from slavery, building the pyramids for him is a lie aswell, its been proven that the pyramids were built by conscript workers from all over egypt that were actually fed, paid and changed in shifts througout the year..
Then they wondered the desert for 40 years? loll and dont even get me started on adam and eve lol
I also laugh at taking facts from the last supper painting. Its not like it was an exact photo of how it looked.. It was painted a millenium and a half after it happened..
Its called common sense people. Look it up.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 23, 2008 9:22:17 GMT -5
Skoric, God is one thing, and christianity, judaism, islam, sindoism, budism, etc.. is another thing.
Evolution is a God's creation too. He crated the mechanisms that made evolution possible. One other aspect some people could look at it, is the following: How about, the time interval in which the whole process from the first organic creatures to todays beings for some ppl seems too long, and they bet that "evolution theory" beats the "God theory". Well how about this long time interval is just a short instance in time by the view of the Creator?
Maybe what for Him it is just a boring morning in the lab, for us it is the history of our earth.
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Post by c0gnate on May 23, 2008 10:57:56 GMT -5
Using Logic, we can prove that God exists in less than 20-10 lines. Someone wanna try? You already promised us your proof, although you are expanding the number of lines: TR said it. Following this same intuitiveness, i could mathematically prove the existence of God in less than 10 lines, but i live it as an exercise to the interested ones! So don't be shy.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 23, 2008 13:22:24 GMT -5
К0ГНЕЈТ, my son you gotta wait, after the eurovision for that
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Post by SKORIC on May 24, 2008 4:38:11 GMT -5
Skoric, God is one thing, and christianity, judaism, islam, sindoism, budism, etc.. is another thing. Evolution is a God's creation too. He crated the mechanisms that made evolution possible. One other aspect some people could look at it, is the following: How about, the time interval in which the whole process from the first organic creatures to todays beings for some ppl seems too long, and they bet that "evolution theory" beats the "God theory". Well how about this long time interval is just a short instance in time by the view of the Creator? Maybe what for Him it is just a boring morning in the lab, for us it is the history of our earth. I never said there is no god, if you look at my first post in this thread i said i dont believe in religion. I dont know if god really exists but im not going to devote my life to him and fear him. That is IF he does exist. All i know is people who are religous are fucked, people also make themselves believe in a christian/muslim/jewish god out of fear. Fear from god and fear for no afterlife. People find comfort that when they die they will live on with their loved ones etc To quote alot of people i know "yeh bro i fear no one but god..now lets go get fucked off drugs then meet up with this sl.ut i know for a head job but i cant stay up to late cause tommorow is easter and i gotta go to church for the 1st time this year" *kisses his cross, racks up a line then lights up a joint* lol... well thats practically how it is.
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Post by terroreign on May 24, 2008 4:48:51 GMT -5
^lol
Anyways, if you read the original post, the topic is about the 'belief in god' not any religion in particular
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 24, 2008 7:32:39 GMT -5
I want to say a few things here just to think about
Science can discover how God made things happen-yet- it isn't able to claim to actually know the original source of events.
Human beings are able to look to the future - conceptualise it and form an intention to act. Animals are not. Why are we able to do this? How comes we developed very very differently to other animals?
Also : Can random chance alone produce such great diversity of chemical structures, biological species, and humankind? Look at the chemical elements in the periodic table, they are made up of of the same subatomic particles, man how can the electrons, protons, and neutrons decide for themselves to be arranged in this way? Can the vast chemical and biochemical elements just emerge by random hits of chance?
Logically can someone answer me? Although nobody has answered my earlier question of Who/what created Logic? was it just implemented into our brains via evolution and if so how comes we all differ on our 'logical' explanations?
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 24, 2008 7:35:26 GMT -5
Also Dooms day ---- why is such a concept hard to believe?
After all if u believe the world was created by a random big bang and nothing existed prior to the big bang (although there is evidence proving otherwise) why can it not just end like that BANG!!
Also If we can punish/reward each other for actions we deem wrong/right - why can a higher force also not punish/reward us?
We still don't know how our brains work properly - I have a few strange ideas about my own brain lol - eg being able to channel into energy- logically is this normal? I can touch a light switch in a moment of pure rage and blow up fuse of the house. I can think about someone calling me and they do - almost immediately. Yet ıt scares the f.ck out of me so I just try to keep chill as much as poss. I think with most non believers they have barred that part of the brain - unable to switch it open. Perhaps not able to bear that there could be something more than they can cope with.
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