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Post by Arxileas on Jul 6, 2008 10:34:17 GMT -5
Time is something created by humans. The way I see it right now time doesn't really exist. Certain processes take a certain amount of "time" when measured by a conscious observer. A human being is born and let’s say 80 years later dies. We say he / she lived 80 years, but really all that happened was someone was born and the biological process of aging eventually led to their death. When we use a stopwatch are we witnessing time or are we watching numbers tick by at set intervals - seconds, once again a human creation. We can say the exact amount of "time" it takes for millions of actions - processes, but all we are doing is applying our created notion of seconds – minutes - hours. Say we see a puddle on a hot day and we want to measure how long it takes for the water to evaporate. We watch the minutes - hours tick by and eventually and the water is gone. This has absolutely nothing do with the hours that went by, it simply was the process of heat from the sun making the water molecules evaporate. It was determined by MANY factors, the amount of water, the temperature that day etc etc, but nothing to do with "time". Obviously time keeping is an essential human activity and extremely useful, but I believe that’s all it is, a useful human invention.
What does everyone think?
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Post by jerryspringer on Jul 6, 2008 11:32:23 GMT -5
Duh, you just figured that out? There's more to say about the subject, but not before Aadmin proclaims this an IPT-thread.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 6, 2008 12:02:46 GMT -5
I dont agree.
Time does exist, a human invention is just the name we gave it...it could be called something else as well...time represents kind of a cycle...which is no invention but which does exist and existed long before there were humans on earth...and it will exist also after our disappear.
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Post by Toskaliku on Jul 6, 2008 14:10:24 GMT -5
Time is a concept that markers the continual change, deterioration, evolution, growth, birth, death of everything around us. Nothing in the universe is static, its always moving, so time is a concept that measures it. Whether its the billions of years that a universe has been rotation, or the 76 years we have lived. We are never in the same moment.
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Post by bordura on Jul 6, 2008 15:03:54 GMT -5
Time it is not an invention, it is a perception of a phenomenon we call it time. We humans perceive it as a linear link of moments in perpetuity and the speed of our perception it is proved experimentally to be relative. In a rush of adrenaline we tend to have the perception of time moving slowly compared to normal doses of adrenaline. Time as we call it know and perceive it, it is both invention and discovery of what it really exist of one of the dimensions of universe. We agree to call it time and we struggle to grasp the notion, but that doesn't make it inexistent. Think of this Toska: if u have an appointment can u be there if not using time? Between ur post and my post something elapsed, many things happened and all this things can be arranged in a time line without deforming the reality, the opposite it clears the reality when u through the understanding of time. As for the time units we use i do i agree they all are arbitrary. but having arbitrary units doesn't have to do anything with the dimension itself.
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Post by jerryspringer on Jul 6, 2008 15:33:26 GMT -5
Man Kastor, I believed you to be smater than that; and look now: even Albanians know better than you.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 6, 2008 15:45:06 GMT -5
I dont care what a gypsy believes.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
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Post by rex362 on Jul 6, 2008 17:18:18 GMT -5
What does everyone think?
Time...
Time for you to have a cold Frap'e .....hope you get diarrhea
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jul 6, 2008 17:29:04 GMT -5
What is time? Where is it? Time is a convention according to our perception of it. In cosmic terms there are cycles that create what we call time. Time actually is our conventional counting of a cycle based in minutes, that may be terrestrial (age, hours etc) or extraterrestrial (cycles in Universe year-light). Time for us is the past, the present and the future. The past time does not exist anymore for us, the future has yet to come while the present is a limit of points towards zero between the past and the future. Where is time?
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 6, 2008 21:12:46 GMT -5
Found this article for reference: discovermagazine.com/2000/dec/cover I think one has to look at different theories in physics to see how time is being described. In Special Relativity, the concept of time depends on the spatial reference frame of the observer(s). In General Relativity: the concept of space-time, via the use of the Einstein field equations. From these two theories, it is evident that time and space "specifically, the geometry of it" are fundamentally linked. From 2nd law of thermodynamics, the *arrow* of time is set by the increase of entropy of the universe. This tells us on a macroscopic level, time is non-reversible. This also tells us that time is related to motion. All these theories seem to indicate to me that time is fundamentally related to motion, and generally one describe the equation of motion as it changes in *time*. However, perhaps it is also possible to describe motion as it changes in *configuration* "as how it is defined via the concept of entropy". Entropy as Time's Arrow hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/therm/entrop.html
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Post by bordura on Jul 6, 2008 21:21:21 GMT -5
The past time does not exist anymore for us...
sure it exist. Light from our sun or other stars for example needs some time to reach us. from sun light needs 8 minutes to reach earth. So actually what u see when looking at sun is what happened there 8 minutes on our past. It takes hundred or thousands of years to reach us from the farthest stars. Actually the noise recorded as static on electronic apparatuses is particles reaching earth from 4 billion years ago. We are able to hear the past NOW. Same with a thunder that comes after from the past (in this case in seconds) to our ears. One of the things thats happening in this short or long travel it's TIME.
Where is time?
Time can't be located in terms of a place with coordinates. It is in itself a coordinate a dimension. The way we humans define it or percept it has nothing to do with the existence of time in itself. Our logical models or senses are just an conventional way of materializing or being effected from time itself.
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 6, 2008 21:24:08 GMT -5
What does everyone think?Time... Time for you to have a cold Frap'e .....hope you get diarrhea [/size] [/quote] I bet time goes faster for you ? Time goes by faster when you're having fun ? You can take 1 hour and do some monotonous activity or do something fun. Sounds like we are aware of time more when we are not doing what we enjoy. Now that's disgusting Rex diarrhoea !!! Is that fun for you ?
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jul 6, 2008 23:44:44 GMT -5
We can also travel back in time but cannot change it..that is through thoughts/memory, videos, sounds...
time is a strange thing...the aliens living 100 milion light years from earth are probably looking (if they can) at dinosaurs right now. Because even what you see takes time to get there...so time is related to motion, when everythin in the universe stops moving, time will stop too and only black dead materials will be there or just energy, just like it was in the begining before the big bang, everything existed as a energy or black matter. Wow I am a genius I just solved the mystery of the origin of the universe. hehe
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Post by albquietman on Jul 7, 2008 0:36:25 GMT -5
Time can't be a human creation, because it existed before humans. We humans just chopped it and put some numbers in order to know how much of it was going. And it's not only the time that we've done that. We've done that on everything, even space, so no wonder we have meters, inches, light years and so on. We invented the numbers, but not the objects that we use these numbers. We did it to make our life easer and to put an order on it.
Time is seen as absolute here on Earth, and it was seen everywhere in the universe until Einstein, but as everybody knows already now, time is relative. That means that if we are in a spaceship that is going to the solar system next to ours, time won't flow in the same way as here on earth. On the other hand, according to Einstein, the time flow depends on the speed of the spaceship, faster the ship and the time will flow slower. That proves one more time that time is not our creation, because if it was, we could twist these laws...
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jul 7, 2008 1:01:55 GMT -5
also if you live in a spaceship for 1 day, so when you come back you will look 20 years younger then your peers.
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Post by terroreign on Jul 7, 2008 2:24:19 GMT -5
For the OP, time does exist doofus, it's a concept that speaks for the reason things rot, spoil or grow old.
Now, clocks and watches are human inventions so that we can tell time better.
So we can say that time as a concept is real, but measurements are created.
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Post by kasso on Jul 7, 2008 6:49:42 GMT -5
time is timeless
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jul 7, 2008 9:56:52 GMT -5
Bozur posted it here illyria.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=harmonyforum&action=display&thread=9232------------- Mysteries of time, and the multiverselatimes.com — In his studies of entropy and the irreversibility of time, Caltech physicist Sean Carroll is exploring the idea that our universe is part of a larger structure.More… (Space)
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Gary Friedman / Los Angeles Times Sean Carroll is a physicist at Caltech in Pasadena. His recent article in Scientific American is called "The Arrow of Time."
In his studies of entropy and the irreversibility of time, Caltech physicist Sean Carroll is exploring the idea that our universe is part of a larger structure.
By John Johnson Jr., Los Angeles Times Staff Writer June 28, 2008
Caltech physicist Sean M. Carroll has been wrestling with the mystery of time. Most physical laws work equally well going backward or forward, yet time flows only in one direction. Writing in this month’s Scientific American, Carroll suggests that entropy, the tendency of physical systems to become more disordered over time, plays a crucial role. Carroll sat down recently at Caltech to explain his theory.
What's the problem with time?
The irreversibility of time is sort of the most obvious unanswered question in cosmology.
Time has been talked about in cosmology for many years, but we have a toolbox now we didn't used to have.
We have general relativity, string theory, discoveries in particle physics that we can use to help us find the right answer.
What does entropy have to do with all this?
The most obvious fact about the history of the universe is the growth of entropy from the early times to the late times.
The fact that you can turn eggs into omelets but not vice versa is a thing we know from our kitchens.
You don't need to spend millions of dollars on telescopes to discover it.
Can you give me a simple explanation of entropy?
One way of explaining entropy is to say it's the number of ways you can rearrange the constituents of a system so that you don't notice the change macroscopically.
If you mix milk into a cup of coffee, the more mixing that occurs, the more disordered the milk molecules become and the more entropy builds.
If all the milk was somehow separated from the coffee, that would be low entropy.
So what's the problem?
If you really believed the conventional story that the Big Bang was the beginning, that there was nothing before the Big Bang, I think that's a very difficult fact to explain. . . .
There's no law of physics that says it should start at a low-entropy state. But the actual universe did that.
From a layman's standpoint, it seems perfectly rational that things would start small and grow apart. You're saying that's wrong.
Many of my very smart colleagues say exactly the same thing. They say, "Why are you thinking about this? It just makes sense that the early universe was small and low-entropy."
But I think that is just a prejudice: . . . Because it is like that in our universe, we tend to think it is naturally like that.
I don't think there is an explanation for that in terms of our current understanding of physics. I'm just saying it's not a fact that we should take for granted.
So you think the way the universe began is unnatural?
Low-entropy configurations are rare.
If you take a deck of cards and you open it up, it's true that they're in order. But if you randomly chose a configuration of a deck of cards it would be very, very unlikely that they would be in perfect order.
That's exactly low entropy versus high entropy.
The universe is more than what we see?
The reason why you are not surprised when you open a deck of cards and it's in perfect order is not because it's just easy and natural to find it in perfect order, it's because the deck of cards is not a closed system. It came from a bigger system in which there is a card factory somewhere that arranged it. So I think there is a previous universe somewhere that made us and we came out.
We're part of a bigger structure.
Are you saying that our universe came from some other universe?
Right. It came from a bigger space-time that we don't observe. Our universe came from a tiny little bit of a larger high-entropy space.
I'm not saying this is true; I'm saying this is an idea worth thinking about.
You're saying that in some universes there could be a person like you drinking coffee, but out of a blue cup rather than a red one.
If our local, observable universe is embedded in a larger structure, a multiverse, then there's other places in this larger structure that have denizens in them that call their local environs the universe. And conditions in those other places could be very different. Or they could be pretty similar to what we have here.
How many of them are there? The number could well be infinity. So it is possible that somewhere else in this larger structure that we call the multiverse there are people like us, writing for newspapers like the L.A. Times and thinking about similar questions.
So how does the arrow of time fit into this?
Our experience of time depends upon the growth of entropy. You can't imagine a person looking around and saying, "Time is flowing in the wrong direction," because your sense of time is due to entropy increasing. . . . This feeling that we're moving through time has to do with the fact that as we live, we feed on entropy. . . . Time exists without entropy, but entropy is what gives time its special character.
Entropy gives time its appearance of forward motion?
Yeah, its directionality. The distinction between past and future. If you're floating in outer space, in a spacesuit, there would be no difference between one direction and another. However, nowhere in the universe would you confuse yesterday and tomorrow. That's all because of entropy, and that's the arrow of time.
Does God exist in a multiverse?
I don't want to give advice to people about their religious beliefs, but I do think that it's not smart to bet against the power of science to figure out the natural world. It used to be, a thousand years ago, that if you wanted to explain why the moon moved through the sky, you needed to invoke God.
And then Galileo and Newton came along and realized that there was conservation of momentum, so things tend to keep moving.
Nowadays people say, "Well, you certainly can't explain the creation of the universe without invoking God," and I want to say, "Don't bet against it."
www.latimes.com/
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Post by yahadj on Jul 11, 2008 8:25:14 GMT -5
That is true, but let's make it clear. That light that reach us in 8 minutes is not our past. For us it is now. It is not even past for the sun either. That light exists now. It is physically present. It only left its origin in order to serve its purpose- spreading the energy. For nothing dissapears, it only transforms from one form to another, including energy and matter.
The time is a unit of change/transformation in the universe. If there was no motion in aynything in the universe it would simply stop to exist.
Time is there but it is relative. For some it appears to be slow, because not much dynamism in their lives. But for some it is so fast, simply it is not enough for the all things you want to do.
Time has value only if you have anything to do with it.
PEACE
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Post by yahadj on Jul 11, 2008 8:47:28 GMT -5
Why is hard to comprehend that. The Universe didn't create itself. Universe is a product of energy tarnsformation. That energy came from somewhere. It transformed nothing to something (matter). The remnant of that energy is in form of light, heat, radio waves, and who knows any other types that probably serve to control the direction of change/entropy.
The source of that energy is the Creative power. We call that simply Allah SWT.
Are there multiuniverses? Possibly. Why not. Whoever created this universe would be able to create many others.
"All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds." Surah Fatiha (1:02)
Elhamdulillah!
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