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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 16, 2008 6:52:41 GMT -5
What l found interesting is that Hungarians have surnames like:
Horvat or Horvath (Croat, decendants from the Jellasichs) Tot (Slovak) Bajor (Bavarian) Olah (Romanian) Rac or Racz (Rashka, Serb) Szerb (Serb) Orosz (Russian) Lengyel (Polish)
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 16, 2008 7:25:19 GMT -5
ya we do. we also have surnames Sokacs (Sokci)
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Post by oszkarthehun on Jul 17, 2008 11:00:30 GMT -5
What l found interesting is that Hungarians have surnames like: Horvat or Horvath (Croat, decendants from the Jellasichs) Tot (Slovak) Bajor (Bavarian) Olah (Romanian) Rac or Racz (Rashka, Serb) Szerb (Serb) Orosz (Russian) Lengyel (Polish) and yet we were recognised official Kingdom and nation long before at least half of those countries. You see how many different peoples wanted to be Hungarian and whom came into Hungary, and yes came into Hungary majority those with that names came after Magyars arrived.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Jul 17, 2008 13:00:39 GMT -5
Novi Here u can find the list of the most frequent Hun surnames based on Hungarian phonebook: www.bogardi.com/gen/g021.htmsome notes to your list: "Tót" means only Slovak since the 18-19th century before that it could apply to other Slavs too (like Slavonia was called Tótország in older Hungarian). Rácz is somehow similar before the 18th century Hungarians sometimes also used that name on catholic and muslim south slavs. Today Orosz means Russian but in proper names it could also refer to the Rusyns (like most place names containing the part "oroszi" refer to Rusyn settlers not Russians from Russia). So i think many ppl whose family name is Orosz in fact have Rusyn not Russian ancestry. And sometimes u can meet with ppl who have these ethnic names though their ancestors were not from that ethnic group, like Oláh is common name among Gypsies just because most of them migrated from Wallachia to Hungary, another gypsy activist in Hungary is called Horváth Aladár or there was a famous Hungarian (catholic) writer called Szerb Antal who had originally jewish background no relation to Serbs, etc. or this is also a good example i already linked this book in the old forum, it contains around 15000 names changed between 1800 and 1893 in Hungary: kt.lib.pte.hu/cgi-bin/kt.cgi?konyvtar/kt04112203/tartalom.htmlLets see the Horvát's kt.lib.pte.hu/cgi-bin/kt.cgi?konyvtar/kt04112203/0_0_2_pg_106.htmlThe original name is in the brackets, around 60 ppl changed his name to "Horvát/h during this period but more than 90% of them had originally german names not south slav. (though i see two "Jellachichs" on the list who changed their name ;D ) same is true for the Rácz kt.lib.pte.hu/cgi-bin/kt.cgi?konyvtar/kt04112203/0_0_2_pg_184.htmlseven person changed his name to Rácz during this period but non of them had south slav name before that. but of course in most cases these ethnic surnames really means that one of their paternal ancestor (probably hundreds of years ago) was from that ethnic group or came from that territory or had other connection with them. wbb u mean Sokác(z)? actually its a quite rare surname, don't u confuse it with "Szakács" (= cook)?
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 17, 2008 22:00:53 GMT -5
no, sokacz like u said, Sokci people, yes szakacs is very common name. I also seen last name Magyari on the letter box of my uncle's apartment.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 19, 2008 23:38:39 GMT -5
Interesting stuff, thanks guys. The reason why l started this thread was that l knew a Hungarian back in my school days and his surname was Racz, he told me the meaning of his name. As a kosovo serb, l was shocked because Rashka is a region just north of kosovo. As you guys might not know my nick is bascially the capital of that region.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 19, 2008 23:54:36 GMT -5
Isnt Novi Pazar is part of Sandzak? or was Sandzak was part of Raska region before Ottomans? what was the real serbian name for Novi Pazar before Ottomans? Because Novi Pazar doest sound 100% serb at all but only a half, just Novi = New is serbian but Pazar = market is Turkish, Arabic or Persian. In Hungarian we call Novi Pazar " Ujbazar" or " Yenibazar".
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 21, 2008 8:02:38 GMT -5
^ yes you are correct Sandzak is the Turkish name for Rashka and Novi Pazar is a Turkish name for that city. Wbb, l have some family living in Novi Pazar, hence my nick To be honest, l don't know the name Novi Pazar previously, l'll have to find out.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 21, 2008 8:06:42 GMT -5
"Because Novi Pazar doest sound 100% serb at all but only a half, just Novi = New is serbian but Pazar = market is Turkish, Arabic or Persian. In Hungarian we call Novi Pazar "Ujbazar" or "Yenibazar"."
Your 100% correct wbb, Pazar is Bazar in Persian or whateva.
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Post by terroreign on Jul 24, 2008 22:36:58 GMT -5
Actually Raska encompassed kosovo...
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 28, 2008 22:08:00 GMT -5
^ and at times the other way happened, that is, the Vilayet of Kosovo.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Aug 8, 2008 17:30:44 GMT -5
no, sokacz like u said, Sokci people, yes szakacs is very common name. I also seen last name Magyari on the letter box of my uncle's apartment. I live for 21 years in Hungary and never heard for familly name Szakács only Takács.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Aug 8, 2008 18:49:47 GMT -5
no, sokacz like u said, Sokci people, yes szakacs is very common name. I also seen last name Magyari on the letter box of my uncle's apartment. I live for 21 years in Hungary and never heard for familly name Szakács only Takács. Personally i also don't know any ppl with the family name Szakács. ;D but check the link www.bogardi.com/gen/g021.htm it says Szakács/ts is the 136th most common name with 1767 hits. and yes Takács/ts/ch/cz (=weaver) is much more common, the 13th most common family name in Hungary. But anyways both are much more frequent than Sokác/Sokácz (sokci), i found only 9 person in the t-com tudakozó with this name in the country.
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Post by c0gnate on Aug 8, 2008 19:12:04 GMT -5
Takács/ts/ch/cz (=weaver) is much more common, the 13th most common family name in Hungary. Interestingly, it corresponds to the Slavic "tkač" of the same meaning. "Tkati" is the verb.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Aug 8, 2008 19:22:18 GMT -5
Takács/ts/ch/cz (=weaver) is much more common, the 13th most common family name in Hungary. Interestingly, it corresponds to the Slavic "tkač" of the same meaning. "Tkati" is the verb. lol no surprise, since the Hungarian word for weaver is of Slavic origin the szakács =cook also i think. and the kovács =smith too (kov iron in slavic languages?)
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Japodian
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Post by Japodian on Aug 8, 2008 21:00:44 GMT -5
My best friends surname is Bočkor (originally Bocskor)! As he told me it means "village shoe". Is there a specific region of Hungary where this surname is common, or was it just created on the basis of profession. I have a hunch it is more connected with Debrecen but I am not sure and might be wrong about it...
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Post by c0gnate on Aug 8, 2008 21:51:33 GMT -5
Interestingly, it corresponds to the Slavic "tkač" of the same meaning. "Tkati" is the verb. lol no surprise, since the Hungarian word for weaver is of Slavic origin the szakács =cook also i think. and the kovács =smith too (kov iron in slavic languages?) Kovati is to forge, weld or smith. Kács is probably related to the Indo-European words for cook, kitchen --which have Slavic variants.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Aug 8, 2008 22:56:29 GMT -5
My best friends surname is Bočkor (originally Bocskor)! As he told me it means "village shoe". Is there a specific region of Hungary where this surname is common, or was it just created on the basis of profession. I have a hunch it is more connected with Debrecen but I am not sure and might be wrong about it... The word bocskor's origin is unknown according to the Történeti Etimológiai Szótár (Historical Etymological Dictionary) but its a quite old word in Hungarian. And your friend is right it means a type of shoe and im sure under different name it existed in other countries too. This article is from the Hungarian Ethnographical Lexikon in Hungarian, but u can see images about some different types of "bocskors" there: www.mek.oszk.hu/02100/02115/html/1-781.htmlNow about the Bocskor as a family name... I checked a geneological site but their sources are quite selective www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/rixidxvn.cgi?act=searchsn&act2=&q=bocskor&q2=&lan= don't cover the whole Hun population. Now based on that the family name "Bocskor" is more common in Eastern Hungary, especially Transylvania (more specifically Szeklerland). But as i said this is based on very selective sources and few names. Now on the other hand, checked the t-com phonebook database and got 94 hits for Bocskor family name www.tudakozo.t-com.hu/main_en?xml=main&xsl=mainand how i see the big majority of them are from West Hungary, especially South Dunántúl (Transdanubia). But this don't include all Hungarians in Hun either, only those who are t-com phone subscribers and who chose to be listed in the phone book. so i doubt that the Bocskor name is particulary frequent in Debrecen and around. But there can be better sources to judge this i dont know...
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Aug 9, 2008 2:13:32 GMT -5
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Post by c0gnate on Aug 9, 2008 8:13:36 GMT -5
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