|
Post by vinjak on Aug 14, 2008 19:16:38 GMT -5
14 August 2008 | 12:04 | Source: FoNet ZAGREB -- Croatian President Stjepan Mesiæ says he will probably react in the Vatican over the actions of a bishop. Military chaplain and bishop Jurij Jezerinac has a practice of reading a hate-filled poem ending with the ustasha greeting of “For the Fatherland Ready”, Zagreb media reports.
Mesiæ told Croatian radio that the Vatican needed to pay closer attention to Jezerinac.
“Is his place in politics or in the army which does not recognize politics?” Mesiæ wondered.
This is not the first time that the president has reacted to the bishop’s behavior. Just before the last elections, he threatened to dismiss the bishop, when Jezerinac called the promises of the Social Democratic Party (SDP) “satanic”.
"I’ve already spoken to the papal nuncio, and I will probably have to intervene in the Holy See. I cannot allow someone who is in the army to break certain rules. There is no place for politics in the army. As long as he is in the army, he cannot meddle in politics,” Mesiæ stressed.
He said that there was a chance that Jezerinac could be forbidden from entering Croatian Army barracks, but, first of all, he expected the church to react.
"If Jezerinac continues to act in this manner, his expulsion from the army is the most extreme measure… The church should renounce such statements loud and clear. The church’s silence on this matter cannot be tolerated, I can’t understand why the church is keeping quiet,” Mesiæ said.
|
|
tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
|
Post by tyson on Aug 14, 2008 19:23:39 GMT -5
to the author of the article,... its "motherland" you idiot!
"za dom spremni" saying is much older than WW2, so just because it was used in world war 2, we cant say it anymore?......bullshyt. oh yeh, and for a fact, croatian law hasnt banned the use of "za dom spremni" , its just individual polititians like mesic whose got a problem with it.
|
|
MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
|
Post by MiG on Aug 14, 2008 19:48:44 GMT -5
"Za Dom Spremni" actually means "For the Homeland Ready"... that's if we want to get technical. But on a more serious note, Mesic had every right to do what he did, and has every right to do what he must/should for the Republic.
|
|
|
Post by vinjak on Aug 14, 2008 20:32:48 GMT -5
I dont think the issue is over za dom spremni I think it has to do with some hate filled poem ?
|
|
MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
|
Post by MiG on Aug 14, 2008 20:34:46 GMT -5
Priests (Let alone Bishops) condoning nationalist violence isn't really good for the Vatican either.
|
|
|
Post by superstar on Aug 15, 2008 17:10:14 GMT -5
Anyone know the poem in question?
What were the words?
|
|
|
Post by superstar on Aug 15, 2008 17:16:56 GMT -5
Here it is. It's a Thompson song...
Bijeli golubovi
Bijeli križ opomenu šalje putni?e stani, ni koraka dalje ovdje je palo golubova jato a bili su za dom, bili samo za to
Pomoli se, onda dalje kreni na ovom su mjestu pali golubovi bijeli s ognjem pakla tu su se sreli ostala su polomljena krila a bili su za dom spremni
S ognjem pakla tu su se sreli ostala su polomljena krila a bili su za dom spremni
|
|
|
Post by markosijekira on Aug 16, 2008 3:33:38 GMT -5
I have a problem with clergy that chants nationalist slogans, it is not the business of the church to preach nationalism.
It reminds me of a scene in Joyeux Noël (if you haven’t seen it, do so, its good...world war I movie) where a British military bishop is holding service to new recruits about to be shipped to the trenches, and preaches about a crusade against the satanic subhuman Germans and how the British are gods children or some crap...very good scene.
Also when I attended mass a few times during the war in Rijeka the father would sing the national anthem, and display the flag in the church, which frankly I find is out of place in a place of worship. Orthodox churches also have that bad habit.
Anyhow, a military priest is responsible for the spiritual well being of a soldier not his patriotism.
|
|
|
Post by spartacus on Aug 16, 2008 12:07:42 GMT -5
it's not the business of mesic to go to the vatican and demand they remove one of their elected officials.
Mesic is a yugo communist scum, no denying it. and you idiots are not Hrvati and it's embarrassing hearing you call yourselves that. Patriotism is not a crime,, but I can see how it can affect those in the Communist mind set. Mesic should realize that this is not Yugoslavia anymore.
Golubovi bijeli is a hate filled poem?? oh how ridiculous this is getting,, I'm sure Bog i Hrvati has some sort of Anti-Jewish agenda in it.
|
|
Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
|
Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 16, 2008 12:28:07 GMT -5
So good to see you back Sparta...:-)
|
|
MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
|
Post by MiG on Aug 16, 2008 19:19:21 GMT -5
^^ So the church should get involved in the Army again? And Politics as well?
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Aug 16, 2008 19:57:38 GMT -5
Priests and other religious leader have a very powerful influence over a rural population, especially one that hasnt reached western European secularist values. A smart leader will use them to his advantage. In times of war their words are very effective and powerful. I would rather have a bishop preach nationalism than the actual BS they usually preach... but then again I am an Albanian, and I am a radical secularist... PS: One of the most beautiful poems made in English on this topic is called the "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain. thewarprayer.com/war_film.htmlIt was written at the time when America was asserting her power over the neighboring countries around her, Philippines in particular at this time. The war resulted in unspeakable atrocities committed on the Philippinos by American troops. Nearly 200,000 died, only a few thousand were injured. In America a propaganda campaign was spread around talking about the civilizing mission of the American army....
|
|
|
Post by superstar on Aug 16, 2008 22:57:59 GMT -5
The Church and politics have gone hand in hand for centuries... It's only in the recent past that governments have had a seperation of Church and State... I think everyone should be allowed to speak out against our elected officials including the Church. Comunism is dead and people shouldn't have to fear for speaking out their oppinions. It's what happens in normal countries.
I don't see the "hate" in Bijeli golubovi either, I don't know what is up with that article....
|
|
|
Post by vinjak on Aug 17, 2008 1:31:14 GMT -5
How do you know that it was Beli Golubovi that he was reciting ? I cant see why Mesic would go off if he just was reciting that poem
|
|
|
Post by markosijekira on Aug 17, 2008 3:21:46 GMT -5
I never understood this rabid nationalism among some church members, doesn’t that contradict the teachings of Jesus or something? But eventually the Balkans will go down the same road as Western Europe, and maintain Christianity in name only, as the bulk of the people in the west are border line atheist secular; it’s so "bad" Americans are sending missionaries to save a few souls.
|
|
|
Post by superstar on Aug 17, 2008 11:34:54 GMT -5
|
|
tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
|
Post by tyson on Aug 17, 2008 20:48:45 GMT -5
^ exactly. mesic is a fukkin idiot. i dont see any fault in what the priest has done.
|
|
MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
|
Post by MiG on Aug 17, 2008 23:33:18 GMT -5
I would understand if this was the 14th century, but he's playing the safe card, and trying to make the Republic as secular as possible.
|
|