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Post by serban on Nov 1, 2008 1:24:04 GMT -5
Hello! I am Romanian but I don't hate Hungarians. On the contrary. I have visited Hungary once (last year) and I was very impressed. Your country is very civilized and clean, it is indeed superior to Romania. I want to ask you if Hungarians used to call both the Italians and the Romanians oláhok at the same time in the past? I have read on the internet that olaszok is a recent name for Italians and that in the past both Italians and Romanians were called oláhok.
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yeni
Moderator
gulash freak
Posts: 327
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Post by yeni on Nov 1, 2008 6:33:52 GMT -5
Salut! I'm happy u liked our country. Both the olasz and the oláh have the same origin (we took the word from the slavs, singular Vlah, plural Vlasi ?, from the later came the Hung olasz name), but in Hungarian language texts i haven’t seen that the Italians were ever called ’oláh’. There was also another name for the Italians in the past 'talján', but i don't know when was it first used in Hungarian and why olasz became the more popular. The word ’olasz’ exist in Hungarian language since the middle ages, place names originated from the 12-14th centuries like Nagyolaszi, Olasz, Várad-Olaszi, Olaszliszka etc show that the name 'olasz' was already used in that time and it refered to the Italian and/or Wallon (yeah those folks from todays north France and Belgium) settlers in Hungary. but i haven't find info that the Romanians were ever called olasz or the Italians were ever called oláh in Hungarian. but if ur internet source have reference for that share with me. I also found the term "olaz orzagban" (with modern Hun writing "Olaszországban" ="in Italy") in the Érdy-kodex it was written in the 1520ies in Hungarian. kt.lib.pte.hu/cgi-bin/kt.cgi?konyvtar/kt06010401/5_0_2_pg_453.html
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Post by c0gnate on Nov 1, 2008 12:02:49 GMT -5
The Magyars will begin to think of Romanians as they think of Italians the day there is a Romanian Pope. They will fully accept Romanians as equivalent to Italians when the Vatican moves to Bucharest. ;D
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Post by serban on Nov 1, 2008 13:50:08 GMT -5
The word ’olasz’ exist in Hungarian language since the middle ages, place names originated from the 12-14th centuries like Nagyolaszi, Olasz, Várad-Olaszi, Olaszliszka etc show that the name 'olasz' was already used in that time and it refered to the Italian and/or Wallon (yeah those folks from todays north France and Belgium) settlers in Hungary. but i haven't find info that the Romanians were ever called olasz or the Italians were ever called oláh in Hungarian. but if ur internet source have reference for that share with me. This is claimed by a Romanian user of youtube. See the following video at 6:16 time point. It says: "During the Middle Ages, the word "Olah" was used both when reffering to Romanians as well as Italians, which shows that the Romanians were very similar to Italians in terms of language, and that the Magyar tribes had encountered both ethnic groups at roughly the same time, in the late 9th and early 10th century, when the Magyars raided Northern Italy. The word "Olasz" now used for all Latinate people except Romanians is a recent phenomenon." As a side note in Polish Wo³osi means Vlachs and W³osi means Italians.
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Post by serban on Nov 2, 2008 16:16:45 GMT -5
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yeni
Moderator
gulash freak
Posts: 327
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Post by yeni on Nov 2, 2008 19:03:02 GMT -5
Thx i don’t really understand that video, it claims that the Hungarian words oláh and olasz are not from the slavic vlah, then from where did we take them? Did the Italians or Romanians called themself Vlah? I thought its an exonym.. those words had to come from somewhere. +In Hungarian language texts i still didn't find that the italians were ever called "oláh" and the olasz is a quite old word i think i proved it (just a note, i don’ really understand the whole argument, what do the author want to prove with this oláh/olasz thingy. Romanians belong to the Romance language family as the Italian too, thats sure. )
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Post by diurpaneus on Nov 3, 2008 14:32:33 GMT -5
The same old sh.it over and over and over and over again and again and again. Mark my words, Diur will move to our old capital: VIENNA Sich mit Tugenden zu schmücken, Achtet er der Sorgen werth, Nicht um Völker zu erdrücken Flammt in seiner Hand das Schwert: Sie zu segnen, zu beglücken, Ist der Preis, den er begehrt,|: Gott erhalte unsern Kaiser, Unsern guten Kaiser Franz!
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Post by serban on Nov 5, 2008 0:29:24 GMT -5
Thx i don’t really understand that video, it claims that the Hungarian words oláh and olasz are not from the slavic vlah, then from where did we take them? Did the Italians or Romanians called themself Vlah? I thought its an exonym.. those words had to come from somewhere. +In Hungarian language texts i still didn't find that the italians were ever called "oláh" and the olasz is a quite old word i think i proved it (just a note, i don’ really understand the whole argument, what do the author want to prove with this oláh/olasz thingy. Romanians belong to the Romance language family as the Italian too, thats sure. ) Of course olah and olasz come from vlah. It's obviuos. I have asked a Romanian the same question that I asked you and here is what he answered: the Hugarian linguist Istvan Knieza claims that Hungarians used the word olaszok for Walloons only, until the 15th century, and afterwards they used it for Italians (Knieza, I. Pseudorumänen in Pannonien und in den Nordkarpaten, AECO, II, 14, Budapest, 1936, p. 127-129). He doesn't say whether after the 15th century both the Walloons and the Italians were called olaszok or only the Italians. How did you call the Italians before the 15th century if not olaszok? Taljanok? How do you call the Walloons now? It is important for me to know if the Hungarians used to call both the Walloons and the Italians with the same name at the same time.
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