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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 18, 2008 6:02:45 GMT -5
Read this:
Jordan Ivanov, the chief Bulgarian authority on the Bulgarian character of Macedonia (Vardar), was able to quote only a few cases in which the name *Bulgarian* was mentioned in Southern Serbia (vardar) before the exarchists began their work. The earliest of these dates from 1474: the Consilium Rogatorum of Dubrovnik decided to grant alms to the extent of twenty perpers to the Bulgarian monastery of St. Joachim Osogovski, whose abbot, Gervasije, stated at an audience in Moscow in 1586 that he came "from the Bulgarian lands." In 1686, the Patriarch Arsenije III Crnojevich visited this monastery: at the end of a Gospel at Pech, he wrote a note stating that he had been at the monastery of Osogovo, where there was "some disorganization in Church matters." On two occasions in the year 1704, Veljko Popovich of Kratovo says that he was born "in the Bulgarian lands, in the place known as Kratovo, in Bulgaria." In 1818, a certain Nesho Markovich, a merchant from Kratovo, printed in Budapest a calendar "for the convenience of the Bulgarian people." In 1619, we find mention, in an inscription in a church at Vodensk, of "Angelaki, grand secretary of Justiniana I and all Bulgaria." In the legend entitled "Slovo Kirila Filosofa kako uvjeri Bugare" (The Tale of how Cyril the Philosopher Converted the Bulgars), it is stated that the city of Ravanj is in Bregalnica and Cyril was brought there by Bulgars. In a manuscript at the monastery of Zograf, it is stated that Pirot is situated in "the Bulgarian Lands." The same is said of the whole of Pelagonia.
As we all know, the vardarian city of Kratovo was a serbian centre!.
Jordan Ivanov only was able to gather a couple of quotes pre-exarchos, anyway ioan you can find out here in:
Jordan Ivanov, Bulgarski starini iz Makedonija (Bulgarian Antiguities from Macedonia), 2nd ed., Sofia, 1932, pp. 147-79, 283, 488 and 502.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 18, 2008 12:50:18 GMT -5
Well I gave more sources what Samuel was and who started the Bulgarian national revival. Tnx for these quotes. They again proove fyrom was/is/eventually will be a Bulgarian land.
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Post by kapetan on Dec 18, 2008 15:47:45 GMT -5
lmao @ pyrrosevic
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 18, 2008 18:50:33 GMT -5
"Well I gave more sources what Samuel was and who started the Bulgarian national revival. Tnx for these quotes. They again proove fyrom was/is/eventually will be a Bulgarian land."
What sources, the stone inscription?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 19, 2008 0:21:50 GMT -5
yeap plus the story of the author of Istoria Slavyanobulgarska
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 19, 2008 1:51:59 GMT -5
^ oh christ Ioan, there isn't much other than the exarchos. Before then there isn't much to speak of, l have shown you what Jordan Ivanov could only manage.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 19, 2008 3:36:29 GMT -5
Novi, Ioan is obsessed with vardarska banovina, pls stop confronting him! Kapetan, what a constructive comment!
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 19, 2008 4:53:36 GMT -5
Well I can thank u again Novi for prooving my point. And I strongly disagree. All sources are clear: they are Bulgarian. What more proove do u want than their Bulgarian grammer? Its a Bulgarian dialect which cannot be "aquired" for 7 year period of the Exarchate influence. Ryrros I dont think I am not acceptable of other oppinions. Actually I consider myself quite reasonable guy and thats why I cannot consider fyrom Serbs. At least the vast majority. Of course there may be Serbs in northwest but thats it.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Dec 19, 2008 6:20:36 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
I must say the intelectual level of the defenders of the "serb macedonia" fell really low. Novi for example just points out how Bulgarian the Bulgarians in Macedonia are ;D ;D. And how this was/is Bulgarian land. You guys kill me. And also he chews that Exarchate as if it has been there for millenia ;D ;D but the truth is it was relatively short-lived organization. ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 19, 2008 6:20:43 GMT -5
Well I can thank u again Novi for prooving my point. And I strongly disagree. All sources are clear: they are Bulgarian. What more proove do u want than their Bulgarian grammer? Its a Bulgarian dialect which cannot be "aquired" for 7 year period of the Exarchate influence. Ryrros I dont think I am not acceptable of other oppinions. Actually I consider myself quite reasonable guy and thats why I cannot consider fyrom Serbs. At least the vast majority. Of course there may be Serbs in northwest but thats it. take a look www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/linguistics-forum/117-federative-republic-skopje-its-language.html
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Dec 19, 2008 6:22:02 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 19, 2008 6:22:30 GMT -5
"I must say the intelectual level of the defenders of the "serb macedonia" fell really low. Novi for example just points out how Bulgarian the Bulgarians in Macedonia are ;D ;D. And how this was/is Bulgarian land. You guys kill me. And also he chews that Exarchate as if it has been there for millenia ;D ;D but the truth is it was relatively short-lived organization. "
Novi pointed out THE ONLY clues WHICH EXIST today that connect fyrom <-> bulgarians, and you have the nerve to attribute "low level" to others? Go learn some basic english for a start.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Dec 19, 2008 6:27:46 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D Pyrros! What do you drink mate!! It's on me!! ;D ;D ;D
You guys are really funny ;D! I'm really enjoying arguing with you ;D. Pyrros mate! I don't if play soccer but if you do - if Greece and Turkey play you should play for Turkey - in that case Greece will win for sure ;D ;D ;D
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Dec 19, 2008 6:32:35 GMT -5
;D
Really? Wow!!
Pyrrosevic - you are ONE! Number one ;D! "Only clues which exist" - these exist only in your confused head. A head which can't understand basic things. And you tell me to learn basic English? ;D
And advise: look in ancient Hellenic sources (NOT after 1000 B.C.!! but before if possible) for the existance of the Mighty Exarchate!! It could help backing you up!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 19, 2008 6:51:08 GMT -5
"And advise: look in ancient Hellenic sources (NOT after 1000 B.C.!! but before if possible) for the existance of the Mighty Exarchate!! It could help backing you up!"
in case you dont know what "1000 BC" means then you are just clueless. in case you know what "1000 BC" means then you are stupid in addition.
can you find another element that Jordan Ivanov brought to light which would strengthen the fyroman<->bulgarian link?
if yes then please do so, otherwise stop embarrassing yourself.
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Dec 19, 2008 6:54:38 GMT -5
;D ;D
Pyrrosevic - chill out ;D! You become even more funny when you try to insult ;D. "Do you know whaat BC meaans" - so girlish Pyrros so mean..... ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 19, 2008 7:03:38 GMT -5
Hehe dude in case you dont want ppl to take you seriously, just say so... i had every good intention tho (alright i didnt try much, nor will i try in the future, you are a certified troll now ;D)
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Atan
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Post by Atan on Dec 19, 2008 7:31:03 GMT -5
Let's go back to the topic what you say? Give us other undisputable source like the link you posted above! Please Pyrros! I really feel the darkness I'm in becomes weaker after reading your sources. Pyrros. Several tasks in addition (don't worry - only first grade children difficulty - and I'll chew it up for you): 1. Why in first place two Slavic groups arrive in the Balkans - one named Bulgarian and one Serbo-Croatian? Huh Pyrros ? Do you understand S-E-R-B-I-A-N and B-U-L-G-A-R-I-A-N? Why these stupid dumb people even dare to separate these two groups? Your answer (if right ;D) Pyrros will lead you to the base of the "problem". 2. Why you are embarrasing your Serbian very close friends (I understand you - it won't be easy for you in home daring to think something else - just keep your head and d..k from the strikes) by calling the dirty Macedonians Serbs? Do you know oh Pyrros that there in these ancient lands of Filip an invader settled? Dirty, savage and fearsome enemy of Greeks and Serbs - shhhh.....the BULGARS of Kuber Khan? 3. How come it happens that the stupid Slavs from the Bulgarian group didn't read the map right and settled in Macedonia? These damn people took the land from Mother Serbia!!! Damn traitors! Now Pyrros - to make your life easier I will give you some hints so that you can evade headache tonight. For these damn and lazy Slavs to move their butts and to settle Kutmichevitsa (known to your Greek majesty as Macedonia) it took some time. For Kuber also there was some time needed to get there. Then the Bulgar savages from the North came into alliance with Kuber and the Slavs living together with him in Macedonia - with the noble purpose of fu.cking you up - the Byzantines I mean. The fairy tale continues - the centuries pass...the king of Bulgaria become Christian. The Bulgarian Empire rose (including the guys living in Macedonia), then fell while strangely the last part of Bulgaria which remained free for some time was in Macedonia(?? stupid Exarchate!!). While these interesting stuff was happening the Serbs were busy licking the as.s of the Byzantines and fighting each other. Their pathetic little states weren't noticed by anyone - mostly of the time they spent being vassal to one or other kingdom. Centuries were passing....nations on the Balkans were formed from long time.....Then suddenly our friends the Serbs decide they need Empire. They did it! They had Empire for 30 years!!! Awfully long period of time!!! During that time they seized the land you name Macedonia. And claim it theirs!! Plus their king was arrogant enough to put in his title "Ruler of Serbs, Bulgarians..." and etc. Didn't he know that in Macedonia there were Serbs living even before the planet start spinning and not Bulgarians? Centuries pass....the people in Macedonia still were calling themselves Bulgarians. Then the Exarchate (FINALLY!!) appeared in at the middle of XIXth century (from 600 to ~1840 - something was wrong with the Macedonians calling themsleves Bulgarians before the Exarchate let them know who they were!!)! And suddenly converted these Serb lands into Bulgarian!!!Such power!!! Such force!!! Without single gunshot! Then we know the story - comrade Tito came and bla-bla. Since the Serbs couldn't make the Macos feel real proud Serbs they at least made them think they are ancient Macos ;D - and Greece is picking the juicy fruits now ;D! Sleep well now Pyrros!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 19, 2008 10:23:57 GMT -5
"Then we know the story - comrade Tito came and bla-bla. Since the Serbs couldn't make the Macos feel real proud Serbs they at least made them think they are ancient Macos ;D - and Greece is picking the juicy fruits now ;D!
Sleep well now Pyrros!"
man i cant sleep while laughing! Serbs couldn't make FYROMaks to feel like serbs, so they converted them to ancient makedonians, right? Well i tell you if the makos were so soft, then it would be much easier to make them smth that they already are (Serbs) rather some strange nation from antiquity (greeks) that they definately WERE not! Its the laws of life as such dude! Nature dictates that we move from state A to state B so that we consume the least amount of energy...
your theory is simply flawed. i revise what i told you about going back to learn some english, dude you need a total brain overhaul.
you remind me of albs, who want back their "arvanites", but aravnites dont want to be albs...
anyways i dont give a funk about fyromaks anymore
anywhere around the globe they go to Serb parties, serb zurka, serb club serb this serb that...
want them?
invite them to your cultural activities and stop breaking our balls here.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 19, 2008 21:02:08 GMT -5
"Novi, Ioan is obsessed with vardarska banovina, pls stop confronting him!"
Your right Pyrro, l think l need to ease up.
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