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Post by zgembo on Apr 4, 2008 18:16:55 GMT -5
Only in in the later part of 1943 & 1944, when the Allied were winning, did the Chetniks actively engage the Nazis. I stopped reading after this comment. When you can lie like this, your opinion is not even worth being considered.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 5, 2008 2:06:47 GMT -5
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Post by terroreign on Apr 6, 2008 2:06:48 GMT -5
Guys, Draza was a bad man, BEZ DILEME!
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 2:12:40 GMT -5
Guys, Draza was a bad man, BEZ DILEME! There is no proof.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 6, 2008 2:16:54 GMT -5
He commanded the Chetnik forces, who raided villages and killed many innocent people
He is a beast
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 3:09:15 GMT -5
He commanded the Chetnik forces, who raided villages and killed many innocent people He is a beast Either prove it or shut up.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 6, 2008 3:11:31 GMT -5
So you're saying he DIDN'T command the chetniks??
Being a leader of an organization which does bad things makes you bad as well my friend.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 3:23:05 GMT -5
So you're saying he DIDN'T command the chetniks?? Being a leader of an organization which does bad things makes you bad as well my friend. Prove to me that the Chetniks under his command did "bad things".
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Post by terroreign on Apr 6, 2008 3:39:40 GMT -5
"Četnici su dolazili u masama na Cetinje, u automobilima na kojima su se nalazili puškomitraljezi, njihova crna zastava sa mrtvačkom glavom, a oni svi sa četničkim kapama, na kojima su bile mrtvačke glave, naravno, svi bradati, crni i strašni, crnji i strašniji i od samih fašista, tako da ulijevaju strah i trepet kod narodnih masa i da dokažu narodu da su oni sila, da su oni vlast u Crnoj Gori i da narod mora prilaziti njima i nikome drugome"
- Ivo Jovicevic, 1944
They were basically evil
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 4:06:24 GMT -5
"Četnici su dolazili u masama na Cetinje, u automobilima na kojima su se nalazili puškomitraljezi, njihova crna zastava sa mrtvačkom glavom, a oni svi sa četničkim kapama, na kojima su bile mrtvačke glave, naravno, svi bradati, crni i strašni, crnji i strašniji i od samih fašista, tako da ulijevaju strah i trepet kod narodnih masa i da dokažu narodu da su oni sila, da su oni vlast u Crnoj Gori i da narod mora prilaziti njima i nikome drugome" - Ivo Jovicevic, 1944 Source. This coming from someone who idolizes a fascist collaborator.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 6, 2008 4:10:26 GMT -5
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 4:53:31 GMT -5
This man is obviously a nut. He is claiming that Draza ordered attacks against Montenegrins. Why would he do that? I didn't know medical training made someone an expert in history.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Apr 6, 2008 8:10:07 GMT -5
Only in in the later part of 1943 & 1944, when the Allied were winning, did the Chetniks actively engage the Nazis. I stopped reading after this comment. When you can lie like this, your opinion is not even worth being considered. It's not me who is the "liar"; accuse Felix Benzler if anything. He reported that for over five months, there were no fighting between Chetniks and Nazis.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 8:47:07 GMT -5
Draza took a more restraint course then Tito as the Germans were killing Serbs in reprisals. Maybe there was no fighting but the strategy didn't revolve around fighting. The strategy revolved around destroying infrastructure used by Germans, interrupting supply lines and sabotaging vehicles.
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Post by srbobran on Apr 6, 2008 10:13:07 GMT -5
Terro, Chetniks had very strong support in Montenegro and they defeated the so called Independent State of Montenegro very early on in the war; the Montenegrin Chetniks were practically de facto independent of Axis rule early on because the government could exert no control over them.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 6, 2008 14:56:38 GMT -5
Deucon - you're crazy, thats a quote from Ivo Jovicevic, you know who he was? He was THERE when this was happening.
srbobran - dont even get me started, cetniks only had support in the north of montenegro, a traditional area of anti-montenegrins
In cetinje cetniks killed many and forced their rule upon montenegrins, this is why the Montenegrins supported the italians so much
And why the Zelenaski Pokret was active, and the vast majority were partizans
My whole fathers side is all Partizan, that must tell you something.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 18:18:12 GMT -5
Deucon - you're crazy, thats a quote from Ivo Jovicevic, you know who he was? He was THERE when this was happening. So you want me to believe this propaganda even though there was no motivation for Draza or Chetniks (which many Montenegrins were apart of) to do this?
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Post by terroreign on Apr 7, 2008 16:44:30 GMT -5
There was much motivation, since the majority of Montenegrins did not want to succumb to the cetnik's will, and most wanted an independent Montenegro again after the annexation
Chetniks also didn't want them to get taken over by the partizans, who they knew the montenegrins would favor moreso than them, so they used more violent means to attack montenegrins.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 8, 2008 3:35:39 GMT -5
There was much motivation, since the majority of Montenegrins did not want to succumb to the cetnik's will, and most wanted an independent Montenegro again after the annexation That is a lie. Some of the greatest Chetniks were Montenegrins. Chetniks also didn't want them to get taken over by the partizans, who they knew the montenegrins would favor moreso than them, So why did Montenegrins join the Chetnik ranks? Why would the Chetniks attack an Orthodox population when they rely on the Orthodox people for support? Why would they attack Montenegrins when they (rightfully) consider Montenegrins as Serbs? so they used more violent means to attack montenegrins. Which you are yet to prove. In every crime there is motivation. You are yet to provide me with motivation except "Montenegrins wanted independence" (even though at least half of Montenegrins consider themselves Serbs and most Montenegrins consider Serbians to be brothers). Strange how the only people calling for independence from Yugoslavia were fascist collaborators.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 8, 2008 4:35:54 GMT -5
Wow you really have no idea about Montenegrin history
And they were seen as traitors and basically evil fasists by Montenegrins.
Lets see what the Hero of the Montenegrin people, Krsto Zrnov has to say about your "heroes"
"Opet organizujemo crnogorski pokret da ne dozvolimo ponovnu aneksiju Crne Gore od strane izdajničke jugoslovenske vlade u Londonu, što ona hoće da ostvari preko svog vojnog ministra Draže Mihailovića, komandanta srpsko-crnogorskih četnika-bjelaša. Braćo moja, pozvao sam Vas na ovaj skup da Vas upoznam sa situacijom, pa Vas sad pozivam da odlučite - hoćemo li da dozvolimo novim Besarabićima i Vukanovićima da ponovo pale i žare po Lovćenu kao 1918. godine ili ćemo se tome oduprijeti" - Krsto Zrnov Popovic 1942
"Crnogorci, iz izloženog Vi vidite i iskusili ste na svojim životima, čašću i imanju ko se sve krije pod imenom nacionalnog pokreta. Blažo Đukanović, Bajo Stanišić i Pavle Đurišić i njihovi plaćenici, oni žele da pomoću terora pod okupatorom da primoravaju narod za ostvarenje svojih ciljeva...možete misliti kakva bi bila država u kojoj bi bili ministri ravni Đukanoviću, Stanišiću i Đurišiću i njima sličnim zločincima." - Krsto Zrnov Popovic 1942
So obviously your chetniks were occuptors and traitors to Montenegro
Mostly northern Montenegrins who were victims of Serbian propoganda, and others who saw it as a way of assuming power, same reason why youth join gangs.
Orthodoxy wasnt the problem for them, it was ideology, which was different between the Montenegrins and the Serbs.
"Organizacija Blaža Đukanovića i organizacija Krsta Popovića jedna drugu gledale su krvničkim očima, jer su njine ideologije stajale u potpunoj suprotnosti, budući da je prva imala za cilj uništenje crnogorske slobode, a druga, naprotiv, za cilj slobodu crnogorskog naroda" - Ivan Jovicevic, 1944
Because then they did not consider Montenegrins as serbs, but instead a lower-class of people. Its only today that you playoff the whole "brotherly" thing.
“But because, during my travels in Jugoslavia, I heard King Nicholas repeatedly denounced by Serbian officials with far more bitterness than they employed toward their late enemies and oppressors, the Hapsburgs...” – Alexander Powell
“Pored toga oficiri i Bajicama pokazase mi i na samovolju policijske vlasti u Danilovom Gradu gde su kazili na 10 dana zatvora jednog mladica, sto je rekao da je Crnogorac, a nije kazao da je Srbin...I za jedan i za drugi slucaj ne znacah, obecah da cu izvideti i osuditi ovakav postupak vlasti...”
- Srpski General Milutinovic, 1918
This is just one of the many examples where Montenegrins were jailed by the Serbian-Bjelas(posrbica) military simply for saying they were Montenegrin!
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