niquetamere
Amicus
Ancient Bosnian Serbatron
Posts: 529
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Post by niquetamere on Apr 19, 2008 13:28:46 GMT -5
Ambasador SAD u BiH Charles English porucio je danas Srbima da "svoju buducnost moraju prihvatiti unutar BiH". "Odvajanje bilo kog dijela BiH ne samo što nije provodivo, nego je neprihvatljivo i opasno", rekao je English tokom svog obracanja profesorima i studentima Fakulteta politickih nauka u Sarajevu.
On je ocijenio da je cak i retorika koja samo nagovještava takvu mogucnost "destabilizirajuca" i da "secesija, ni pod kakvim okolnostima, nije moguca".
English smatra da "nema nikakvog nezavisnog puta za Republiku Srpsku, odvojenog od BiH, kojim bi pristupila evroatlantskim struktutrama".
"Prošlih godina svjedoci smo rasta i razvoja u RS bez presedana, ali nema nikave dileme da prosperitetna i uspjesna RS moze postojati samo kao dio jake i prosperitetne države", rekao je English.
On je poručio Bošnjacima u BiH da ne mogu sebi dozvoliti da prošlost upravlja njihovim političkim planovima ili da ograničava njihov pristup reformama. "Politika osvete vas ne može odvesti u NATO niti u EU", rekao je English.
On je pozvao Bošnjake u BiH da se na putu izgradnje povjerenja potrude da postignu konsenzus i da budu spremni da cine ustupke. "Politika zasnovana na vladavini većine vodi ka produbljivanju nepovjerenja i ne može dovesti do stabilne demokratije za koju bošnjacki lider tvrde da je žele", rekao je americki ambasador.
On smatra da BiH trebaju mehanizmi kontrole i ravnoteža nadležnosti kako bi se zaštitili interesi svih konstitutivnih naroda i manjina.
[glow=red,2,300]English je porucio Hrvatima u BiH da moraju da prihvate da se dalje etnicke podjele "ove vec podijeljene zemlje" nikada nece desiti.[/glow]
(rtrs.tv)
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 20, 2008 5:27:17 GMT -5
Srusit cemo dvo-entitetski ustroj BiH. Tesko onom tko Hrvata dira!
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niquetamere
Amicus
Ancient Bosnian Serbatron
Posts: 529
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Post by niquetamere on Apr 21, 2008 0:12:33 GMT -5
Srusit cemo dvo-entitetski ustroj BiH. Tesko onom tko Hrvata dira! Ti se mozes samo nadudlat karine, to je relativno sve. Necete 'vi' nista srusiti, nit imate muda i za sta. Vi 'Herceg-Bosna' pickurine mozete samo sanjat o onome sto su Bosanski Srbi dobili. Barem su se oni iz pocetka odmah digli i krenuli u rat, jebat mater svakom cetniku al barem su imali 'nekog' obraza, a vi cmarovi ste cekali najbolju soluciju da sjebete komsije/susjede kada je bilo najteze i onda na kraju ko fol se predomislili jer vam je trebala pomoc za oluju isto onoliko koliko je trebala za ABiH u vezi Bihaca. Za vas ustase iz Hercegovine su BH Srbi izmislili dostojanstvno.
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niquetamere
Amicus
Ancient Bosnian Serbatron
Posts: 529
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Post by niquetamere on Apr 21, 2008 0:18:14 GMT -5
Sta ces kad je vas Ustasa u BiH malo pa nemozete ni prnut kako treba, srecom ima dobrih Bosanskih Hrvata koji nedaju fukarama da se ponasaju ko degeni. Sjecas se Blaza Kraljevica?
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Post by zgembo on Jun 3, 2008 1:13:40 GMT -5
The divisions the USA ambassador speaks of are formal. Such guarantees can change with the flow of the wind. Consider that the USA was guaranteeing Serbia's territorial integrity less than 9 years ago.
The divisions that matter in Bosnia are on the ground, in culture, history, language (gradually), administration, loyalties and mentalities. These divisions are growing more and more distant, and that's what matters. Within 10 years, an entire generation (25 years) will have lived apart from the other ethnic group. Within 30 years, only senior citizens will recall the existence of an intermixed society. That's when separation will be ideal, when the ethnic groups have developed separately from each other.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 3, 2008 1:19:09 GMT -5
Serbs don't respond well to threats. Disbanding our political institutions is an act of war.
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Post by theblackswans on Jun 3, 2008 8:11:33 GMT -5
The divisions the USA ambassador speaks of are formal. Such guarantees can change with the flow of the wind. Consider that the USA was guaranteeing Serbia's territorial integrity less than 9 years ago. The divisions that matter in Bosnia are on the ground, in culture, history, language (gradually), administration, loyalties and mentalities. These divisions are growing more and more distant, and that's what matters. Within 10 years, an entire generation (25 years) will have lived apart from the other ethnic group. Within 30 years, only senior citizens will recall the existence of an intermixed society. That's when separation will be ideal, when the ethnic groups have developed separately from each other. Your an idiot, have you ever been to Bosnia? Young people are growing up in the institutions created by war and the criminal politicians but they are less concerned with these things than there parents generation. It's you expatriates who feel the need to prove your heritage and those who exploit the divisions for personal gain that want to see this happen and continue.
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Post by theblackswans on Jun 3, 2008 8:12:15 GMT -5
Serbs don't respond well to threats. Disbanding our political institutions is an act of war. The difference is young lady, is you no longer have an army ;D
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 3, 2008 9:57:55 GMT -5
The difference is young lady, is you no longer have an army ;D Are you implying that we Bosanci aren't armed? Maybe the stranci destroyed a few small arms and dismantled some artillery (for propaganda purposes) but we are far from disarmed... something I can personally attest to.
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Post by zgembo on Jun 3, 2008 11:47:11 GMT -5
The divisions the USA ambassador speaks of are formal. Such guarantees can change with the flow of the wind. Consider that the USA was guaranteeing Serbia's territorial integrity less than 9 years ago. The divisions that matter in Bosnia are on the ground, in culture, history, language (gradually), administration, loyalties and mentalities. These divisions are growing more and more distant, and that's what matters. Within 10 years, an entire generation (25 years) will have lived apart from the other ethnic group. Within 30 years, only senior citizens will recall the existence of an intermixed society. That's when separation will be ideal, when the ethnic groups have developed separately from each other. Your an idiot, have you ever been to Bosnia? Young people are growing up in the institutions created by war and the criminal politicians but they are less concerned with these things than there parents generation. It's you expatriates who feel the need to prove your heritage and those who exploit the divisions for personal gain that want to see this happen and continue. No, you are the idiot, because you did not understand what I wrote. For expatriates (people who left shortly after the war started), it is not unusual to see Serbs and Bosniaks hanging out with each other in the diaspora. We lived together back in the day, and we associate nowadays too. It is much different for people who have stayed back though. I know people from Bijeljina and Banja Luka who haven't been exposed to any Muslims for 15 years. They are surprised by me having Bosniak friends. The kids who were born in the late 80s and early 90s are the most nationalistic. All they remember is war and ethnic divisions. All they have been exposed to is their own ethnic group.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jun 3, 2008 14:26:24 GMT -5
The difference is young lady, is you no longer have an army ;D Are you implying that we Bosanci aren't armed? Maybe the stranci destroyed a few small arms and dismantled some artillery (for propaganda purposes) but we are far from disarmed... something I can personally attest to. Tell me, are you aware that RS doesn't have an exclusive VRS anymore, and neither does FBiH have an exclusive ARBiH/HVO anymore. Do you have any of the slightest idea what the order of battle is for OSBiH? BTW, you can personally attest to all that you have said right? If so, which division/regiment/battalion do you fall under if you have this "personal experience".
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 3, 2008 21:34:02 GMT -5
Tell me, are you aware that RS doesn't have an exclusive VRS anymore, and neither does FBiH have an exclusive ARBiH/HVO anymore. Do you have any of the slightest idea what the order of battle is for OSBiH? Serb don't need a standing army to be effective. They only need to be mobilized under a single command. That said, Serb soldiers in Republika Srpska still wear the Republika Srpska emblem on their uniforms. BTW, you can personally attest to all that you have said right? If so, which division/regiment/battalion do you fall under if you have this "personal experience". I didn't fight in the war, I was too young. I do know that most of the 100,000 Serb soldiers that fought for us didn't hand their weapons to the government and either put them away somewhere inside/outside their homes or buried them. I can attest that 95% of the veterans I have met still have or know where their weapon/s is/are.
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Post by vinjak on Jun 3, 2008 21:36:31 GMT -5
^^^^
yes that is correct not only the Serbs but Croats and Bosniaks as well, most have concealed weapons. During the beginning weeks of the war the amunition dumps where opened wide and people armed themselves.
During the fragile peace noone would be caught out again so weapons where hidden most buried as Deacaon pointed out.
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Post by theblackswans on Jun 3, 2008 21:46:30 GMT -5
Tell me, are you aware that RS doesn't have an exclusive VRS anymore, and neither does FBiH have an exclusive ARBiH/HVO anymore. Do you have any of the slightest idea what the order of battle is for OSBiH? Serb don't need a standing army to be effective. They only need to be mobilized under a single command. That said, Serb soldiers in Republika Srpska still wear the Republika Srpska emblem on their uniforms. BTW, you can personally attest to all that you have said right? If so, which division/regiment/battalion do you fall under if you have this "personal experience". I didn't fight in the war, I was too young. I do know that most of the 100,000 Serb soldiers that fought for us didn't hand their weapons to the government and either put them away somewhere inside/outside their homes or buried them. I can attest that 95% of the veterans I have met still have or know where their weapon/s is/are. The strength of the VRS during the war was the logistical support provided by Serbia which is no longer willing or able to provide either. The VRS could muster a strength of about 60,000-80,000 troops during the war the Armija BiH with reserves stood at twice that and some have said as high as 200,000. Besides the logistics the VRS enjoyed the other strength was it's officer corps (provided and trained and paid by the JNA and Belgrade) and the heavy weapons which the VRS outgunned the Bosnian Armija at least 10 to 1. None of the above is true any longer and most of the OSBiH stocks are located in Federation territory. So talk sh*t when you don't know what you are talking about and brag about some Kalishnakov's buried in the woods for the last 13 years! Your mouth is writing a cheque you cetniks can cash!
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Post by theblackswans on Jun 3, 2008 21:49:41 GMT -5
and just because you like to hide a shotgun up your a*s doesn't mean you are armed!
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Post by vinjak on Jun 3, 2008 22:02:50 GMT -5
The biggest danger to any armed force no matter how big or equiped (apart from the obvious, a armed oposing army) is armed civilians. I think you know that Blackswans
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jun 3, 2008 22:09:30 GMT -5
Armed Civilians is never a problem. That's the biggest excuse to shell a part of a town to dust. Tactics used by a rebellious army such as Guerilla Warfare, is dangerous. Using civilians as shields is dangerous (Like Albanians did in Kosovo and Tetovo).
This still doesn't change the fact that they aren't serving the "Citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina". They are still a part of OSBiH regardless of what their moral position is. It is an oath they took, and an oath to serve.
Here is the jist of it. Sure the guns might have been kept, but what about the heavier weapons? But did you also think about the upkeep of the guns that were kept. Were they cleaned and used properly?
I'm sure that the AK-47/74's, M-76/77's, and other weapons were hidden and never brought out. And in the 13 years of peacetime, they were only hidden and never used.
I'll give u the fact that the AK's and AK Based Yugoslav made models are tough against weathering, but in a span of 13 years, most of those weapons are scrap metal.
There are still landmines positioned around BiH, but they are rotting away, and any slight temperature changes or air pressure changes will set them off, not to mention the wildlife tripping over them/stepping on them.
Here's the deal. If a war was to break out in BiH, it would be very similar, but very different to the 1992 scenario. If another war was to occur in BiH, the nation would be divided, and spoils would go to the victors.
Do you guys have any of the slightest idea how complicated the strategic overview of a possible Bosnian Civil War is? It's too much to explain in one simple post or even thread.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 3, 2008 22:34:13 GMT -5
This still doesn't change the fact that they aren't serving the "Citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina". They are still a part of OSBiH regardless of what their moral position is. It is an oath they took, and an oath to serve. People will easily disregard whatever oath they gave to foreign commanders when their family, their friends and their people are under threat. Here is the jist of it. Sure the guns might have been kept, but what about the heavier weapons? But did you also think about the upkeep of the guns that were kept. Were they cleaned and used properly? Sure, Tanks and artillery are out of order but Serbs have plenty of rocket launchers (American made if you believe it) and mortars to make up for it. I'm sure that the AK-47/74's, M-76/77's, and other weapons were hidden and never brought out. And in the 13 years of peacetime, they were only hidden and never used. I'll give u the fact that the AK's and AK Based Yugoslav made models are tough against weathering, but in a span of 13 years, most of those weapons are scrap metal. I have seen/fired MP40s, PPSh-41s, SKS/PAPs, Tommy Guns and other weapons made in 1940s and 1950s and they work very well. There are still landmines positioned around BiH, but they are rotting away, and any slight temperature changes or air pressure changes will set them off, not to mention the wildlife tripping over them/stepping on them. Are you talking about Bouncing Betties?
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jun 3, 2008 23:55:05 GMT -5
Given the circumstances yes, but for now, it's not easy to mobilize a rebellious army because you will be labeled the driving force of that war, and the nations total instability. So before an oath is disregarded, there is a LOT of causes before that and a lot of brains behind it to render it active within a certain populace.
Which? I've never heard of the VRS use anything American. Only French, Russian, and domestic made is what they had.
That's all fair and good, but that's like me saying that I've seen a live musket (Made in the early 1810's) being fired today in 2008. Any gun will fire (No doubt), if properly taken care of and maintained. What about all of the Automatic/Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles that were standard in the VRS, that are now burried in someones backyard, or hidden in a little cave inside a stream somewhere? Guns, like everything else, need care. Even a sword will need care, or it will get rusty, and it's structure will suck major balls after 3-4 years of neglect.
Any and every type of Anti-Personnel (AP) or Anti-Armour/Tank (AT) mines. Any landmine such as APERS, PMA-2, PMA-3, M14, OMSZ-2, TMM-1, TMPR-6, etc., scattered throughout Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Kosovo, and Macedonia, are a threat to anyone. By the end of 1992 and into 1993, over 500,000 mines were set forth by all sides, so that major incursions throughout forested areas wouldn't occur.
There were also an amazing amount of IED's, but those aren't counted in the official reports as their lifespan is not that very great due to primitive materials and quick/unsupervised assembly.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 4, 2008 0:26:02 GMT -5
Given the circumstances yes, but for now, it's not easy to mobilize a rebellious army because you will be labeled the driving force of that war, and the nations total instability. So before an oath is disregarded, there is a LOT of causes before that and a lot of brains behind it to render it active within a certain populace. It doesn't matter who mobilizes first as Serbs will be blamed for everything. We are immune from a casus belli or international law because we have already been condemned. Which? I've never heard of the VRS use anything American. Only French, Russian, and domestic made is what they had. I don't know what its called but you dispose of it after one fire and have to pull out (extend) the back bit in order to arm the rocket which is already in the launcher. I do know that it was used by Americans during the Vietnam war. That's all fair and good, but that's like me saying that I've seen a live musket (Made in the early 1810's) being fired today in 2008. Any gun will fire (No doubt), if properly taken care of and maintained. What about all of the Automatic/Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles that were standard in the VRS, that are now burried in someones backyard, or hidden in a little cave inside a stream somewhere? Guns, like everything else, need care. Even a sword will need care, or it will get rusty, and it's structure will suck major balls after 3-4 years of neglect. All the 1940/1950 made weapons were found by the people who "introduced" me to them. After they cleaned and fixed the weapons they were fireable and sustainable. Maybe not as good as new but they were still pretty accurate and able to go full auto. Any and every type of Anti-Personnel (AP) or Anti-Armour/Tank (AT) mines. Any landmine such as APERS, PMA-2, PMA-3, M14, OMSZ-2, TMM-1, TMPR-6, etc., scattered throughout Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Kosovo, and Macedonia, are a threat to anyone. By the end of 1992 and into 1993, over 500,000 mines were set forth by all sides, so that major incursions throughout forested areas wouldn't occur. There were also an amazing amount of IED's, but those aren't counted in the official reports as their lifespan is not that very great due to primitive materials and quick/unsupervised assembly. The life span of a Bouncy Betty is 7 years but the explosives can be triggered by other means and they never deteriorate. I am sure there are plenty of WW2 era mines all over Yugoslavia.
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