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Post by Novus Dis on May 27, 2008 10:43:27 GMT -5
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Post by Toskaliku on May 27, 2008 14:44:13 GMT -5
I would say thats quite endearing, considering the effectiveness of the Wehrmacht and the SS...
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Post by Novus Dis on May 27, 2008 18:23:29 GMT -5
Well yes, they do suck without the USAF but they have the same basic goals of the Wehrmacht/Schutzstaffel, that being the need to conquer their neighbours and kill or expel every minority within their borders once the conquering is done.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on May 27, 2008 22:55:08 GMT -5
I would say thats quite endearing, considering the effectiveness of the Wehrmacht and the SS... Of course you would find it endearing since you had the SS Skenderbeg that ran around and massacred people. About the same as the KLA.
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Post by Duke John on May 27, 2008 23:20:26 GMT -5
Why my post was deleted? ? Anyway...It does not make no sence that a croat is talkin about SS Skanderbeg, the Nazi past of Croatia is well know which personally does not bother me at all, --edit-- Hail Ustasi, Hail Ballists!
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Fender
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Post by Fender on May 27, 2008 23:42:20 GMT -5
Why my post was deleted? ? Anyway...It does not make no sence that a croat is talkin about SS Skanderbeg, the Nazi past of Croatia is well know which personally does not bother me at all, but you are not even a croat, nothing but a bitter twisted serb who does not get tired of acting as croat. Hail Ustasi, Hail Ballists! Why shouldn't it make sense. Just because I'm Croat doesn't mean that I celebrate our Nazi past. You must keep in mind that the Ustasa/NDH at its peak only had 1/3 of the suppport of Croats. Even you can do the math and see that over half did not want the NDH.
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Panos
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Post by Panos on May 27, 2008 23:56:30 GMT -5
KLA were recognised by the Clinton administration, and prior to, as an official terrorist organisation. Which they were. They were terrorists.
That being said, Milosevic's didn't fight KLA, he fought Albanian's. Big mistake. The reaction fror the west was also over the top (like Milosevic's actions) but the West have all the power & are ultimately about to evade responsibility that smaller nations cannot evade.
Had Milosevic fought only KLA, Kosovo would be a different scenario today.
Anyway, Ifs and Buts mean nothing.
Serbs and Albanians are going to have to work out a way to get along. The attitude from Albanians seams to be, we're recognised as independent now Serbs - get use to it! But you are inviting more hostility against you by not reaching out, Serbia can hinder your progress as a nation very easily from within and without.
The institutions of Kosovo should be working hard to strengthen ties with Serbia, mixing up the work force, allowing for easy travel between both region. Even allow for migration.
Polarising into two distinct groups will only cause more trouble.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on May 28, 2008 0:34:07 GMT -5
Panos, thats not accurate. Milosevic only targetted the KLA. I have read books that have stated the JNA would walk into a town, remove the population, fight the KLA and defeat them, then bring the population back in. This ensured minimum civillian casualties.
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Post by markosijekira on May 28, 2008 1:19:04 GMT -5
Milosevic’s mistake was to take a heavy handed approach to the Kosovo question, very much like Russia had in Chechnya. Also like the Russians, his regime had decided to ignore public perception in the international media, and simply not wage a professional PR campaign like the Albanians. But unlike the Russians, he had no 16,000 nukes that said "back off"
Of course the fact that the KLA used civilian population centers as bases of operations simply added to the mess, but good PR goes a long way
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Post by Novus Dis on May 28, 2008 1:45:18 GMT -5
The institutions of Kosovo should be working hard to strengthen ties with Serbia, mixing up the work force, allowing for easy travel between both region. Even allow for migration. That should be difficult considering Serbs aren’t even considered human in the eyes of Albanians.
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Post by filomen on May 28, 2008 2:28:30 GMT -5
I didnt read those books of such operation to get back after the pop. but Iv seen militars, paramilitars, police special force not only to kill civils but even robering from the houses TV, frigo, clothes, ect ect ect very evry sad and Iv seen on tv all of these not readen from the books
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 28, 2008 2:41:14 GMT -5
The institutions of Kosovo should be working hard to strengthen ties with Serbia, mixing up the work force, allowing for easy travel between both region. Even allow for migration. That should be difficult considering Serbs aren’t even considered human in the eyes of Albanians. I wonder on which criteria do albies consider other nations as inferior. Dont they have mirrors in their houses?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 28, 2008 2:47:37 GMT -5
KLA were recognised by the Clinton administration, and prior to, as an official terrorist organisation. Which they were. They were terrorists. That being said, Milosevic's didn't fight KLA, he fought Albanian's. Big mistake. The reaction fror the west was also over the top (like Milosevic's actions) but the West have all the power & are ultimately about to evade responsibility that smaller nations cannot evade. Had Milosevic fought only KLA, Kosovo would be a different scenario today. Anyway, Ifs and Buts mean nothing. Serbs and Albanians are going to have to work out a way to get along. The attitude from Albanians seams to be, we're recognised as independent now Serbs - get use to it! But you are inviting more hostility against you by not reaching out, Serbia can hinder your progress as a nation very easily from within and without. The institutions of Kosovo should be working hard to strengthen ties with Serbia, mixing up the work force, allowing for easy travel between both region. Even allow for migration. Polarising into two distinct groups will only cause more trouble. Panos, Everything about Kosovo served a purpose. If it was for the sake of Albies, the UN would go in and the story would be ended. (of course in reality it never works that way). We would have no bombing of bridges in Voivodina (Northern Serbia), Nis, Belgrade, no bombing of oil refineries (Pancevo, Northern Serbia), no bombing of maternity centers, no bombing of Chinese Embassy, no COLD BLOOD MURDERING OF RTS PERSONEL, and last but not least, no Camp Bondsteel, which expands in northern FYROM too. Lets not be naive. The whole Yugoslavia destruction operation was a very big project for them, lasted for almost 16 years, and the consequences were very bad.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on May 28, 2008 5:03:23 GMT -5
I didnt read those books of such operation to get back after the pop. but Iv seen militars, paramilitars, police special force not only to kill civils but even robering from the houses TV, frigo, clothes, ect ect ect very evry sad and Iv seen on tv all of these not readen from the books You see, thats your problem. Your ill informed thereby making rash statements that make you look foolish in the end.
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Post by radovic on May 28, 2008 10:35:47 GMT -5
Milosevic’s mistake was to take a heavy handed approach to the Kosovo question, very much like Russia had in Chechnya. Also like the Russians, his regime had decided to ignore public perception in the international media, and simply not wage a professional PR campaign like the Albanians. But unlike the Russians, he had no 16,000 nukes that said "back off" Of course the fact that the KLA used civilian population centers as bases of operations simply added to the mess, but good PR goes a long way ^ No. His mistake is he fell for the same trap Americans used on Saddam. They wanted a war, they told Saddam "We have no concerns regasrding Arab affairs" implying they did not care if he attacked Kuwait. To Milosevic they said "We have no concerns aobut Yugoslavia's internal affairs/
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Panos
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Post by Panos on May 28, 2008 18:15:55 GMT -5
Yeah, the American's are the bad guys. Saddam was a victim, he HAD to invade Kuwait. Sadam is was infinitely more evil than America ever was or ever could be.
The moral of the story with Saddam is; don't invade your neighbours, don't use nasty weapons on the Kurds in your nation, don't meet up with international bad guys (Kim Jong Il).
Kosovo cannot be compared to America in Iraq. For a start, Kosovo wasn't annexed to Serbia.
Anyway, like I said. You can bicker over this history all you want. The fact is Kosovo has proclaimed independence & Serbia doesn't accept it. China & Russia back Serbia & The West back Kosovo. Serbs believe their future is in the EU. These are the predicaments that must be overcome to find a mutually acceptable solution between two opposing parties.
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Post by radovic on May 28, 2008 18:27:02 GMT -5
^ The moral of the story is never trust America. Milosevic shouldn't have trusted Gonzalez when he was in Beograd saying that the U.S. didn't care about internal politics, just like how Saddam shouldn't have trusted Cheney, Rumsfeld and the secretary of state when they said the U.S. didn't care about internal Arab conflicts.
Clearly Serbs haven't learned there lesson. They trusted America would respected Kumanovo agreement and UNSC 1244.
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Post by Toskaliku on May 28, 2008 18:54:06 GMT -5
Yea, pin it on us, as if you Serbs are so accepting.
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Post by Novus Dis on May 28, 2008 22:43:27 GMT -5
Yea, pin it on us, as if you Serbs are so accepting. There are many more Albanians in Belgrade then there are Serbs in Tirana.
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Panos
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Post by Panos on May 28, 2008 23:35:36 GMT -5
Now you're fighting over who is more accepting? lol.
The history between you two doesn't justify acts of hostility toward each other. If Kosovo Albanians try to punish Serbs, the Serb regions in Kosovo will punish you and will likely re-join Serbia or create Serb-guerrillas (i.e. civil war). If Serbs continue acts of hostility to Albanians, they will never join the EU & will suffer adversely from mass-boycotting of the Serbian economy.
You have everything to loose from fighting like this. Easing tensions is in the mutual best interest of all.
(Waits for both sides to blame each other for there being no peace).
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