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Post by Arxileas on Mar 11, 2009 9:48:45 GMT -5
Greek-Albanian relations receive a cultural boost New culture center inaugurated in Tirana TIRANA – The conversation goes like this: “Thank you.” “Parakalo.” In 2009 Tirana, Greek is the new Esperanto. While it is habit for one to automatically try and establish communication in English, the minute an Albanian you address realizes that you are Greek, he or she will immediately get you out of any awkward situation. It was against this privileged background that the inauguration of a new center of the Hellenic Foundation for Culture took place in the Albanian capital on March 5. Early in the day, dozens of Albanian journalists attended a press conference, while hours later, and despite heavy rain, hundreds of people flooded the Arsakeio Greek-Albanian School – home to the foundation’s new center – for the opening event, which was held in the presence of Neritan Ceka, deputy speaker of the Albanian parliament, and Archbishop Anastasios of Albania. The official opening of yet another Balkan center of the Hellenic Foundation for Culture – similar openings have also taken place in Bucharest and Sofia, with Belgrade next on the list – comes at a good time for both countries. Recent friction between the two countries appears to have de-escalated substantially, while the repatriation of a wave of first-generation immigrants who did well for themselves while in Greece and are now making a fresh start back home is challenging old stereotypes, the preservation of which had been undertaken by a small group of nationalists with poor results – just take a look at the way Albanians voted in last year’s Eurovision song contest. At the same time, thousands of Albanians are working for Greek banks and other Greek companies in Albania. One way or another, the Greek language is very prominent in Albania and this is something the Hellenic Foundation for Culture’s people and its president, Professor Georgios Babiniotis, know only too well. Tirana’s Arsakeio School, which has turned into a vibrant source of philhellenism since it was established in 1998, is currently harvesting its first – for all to see – crop: the graduation of its first group of 18-year-old students, all of whom are fluent in Greek. Meanwhile, during the unofficial period of the center’s operation, which began in September 2008, more than 200 adults have enrolled in a series of courses in Modern Greek. The center’s opening was accompanied by the “Traveling with C.P. Cavafy” exhibition, showcasing archive material along with a collection of publications of the Alexandrian poet’s works translated into various languages – the latter in collaboration with the Center for Neo-Hellenic Studies / Cavafy Archive, the National Book Center of Greece and the Cavafy Museum in Alexandria. The following day, the five-member Argo ensemble interpreted works by Ravel, Yannis Constantinidis and Albanian songs from the anthology of Lola Gjoka, accompanied by the Arsakeio School Choir at the Tirana Academy of Arts. Coming up are three new exhibitions, one of which is aptly dedicated to the subject of immigration. www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_civ_0_11/03/2009_105395
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 11, 2009 10:33:57 GMT -5
This is one of those flowery lets put a good spin on things article. The '200' is actually quite low for a city like Tirana(where there are over 700,000 and possibly more today). I can say from the number of those enlisted in other outside schools (primarily American and then followed by Turkish, even Arabic), the 200 is very very minuscule.
In Tirana today if you tell the average person your Greek, you will neither get a better nor worse treatment... depending on who you talk to ofcourse. But in general, feelings towards Greeks in Tirana is not very positive.
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 11, 2009 14:46:37 GMT -5
Really.... and all these votes to the Greek song in Eurovision from Albania.. .where did they come from?... the Greek minority? lol lol Dude.... your Turkalbanian insticts make you feel lonely day by day in Albania. The next 10-20 years, when Albania will be in EU, you will be a picturosque man in Tirana and everybody will say "A he is our attraction: The Greek hater" and people we throw money in a tank in front of you and taking pictures with you.. lol lol
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 11, 2009 15:29:15 GMT -5
Melty is Philhellen...au fond...
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Post by insomniac on Mar 11, 2009 16:03:24 GMT -5
I'm all for good relations. But that has to mutual.
Relations cant be to impose greek culture, while accepting nothing in return. That only makes things worse and people dislike you.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 11, 2009 16:54:28 GMT -5
There are plenty of fake Albanians who voted, and in general we like Greek music (I have some on my Ipod)... but the people and the country are a different issue. And as for me begging. Lol, dont worry about that. Nobody with an American passport who goes there ever has to beg... Lol, okay... when Im in Tirana Ill keep that in mind while Im sipping Turkish coffee. Like I said, this is by and large a masturbation article. Ill have to find the more appropriate one written by a Turk who travelled Albania: www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=152757Albania: The last Ottoman outpost in the BalkansOver 70 percent of Albania’s population is Muslim, some 20 percent are Orthodox Christian and 10 percent are Catholic. Being a Turk here gives you some privileges. In every part of the country; people show us great respect when they learn that we come from Turkey. They do not show the same respect to other nationalities.In every part of Albania, Turks are welcomed and loved -- no doubt the result of a legacy of good administration by the Ottomans.See? Everyone makes claims in articles.... I feel very comfortable in my Albania dont worry.... Our next stop was to the grave of Hasan Rıza Paşa, the last Ottoman paşa in Albania. The inscription on his tomb says “Albania and Albanians pay tribute to Hasan Rıza Paşa, the great commander of our armies and a great military hero of the time.” Hasan Rıza Paşa’s father was the governor of Baghdad, while he himself served as the governor of northern Albania. ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 11, 2009 17:06:05 GMT -5
Isomniac listen how things work in International relationships. I give 1 you give 1.
Ex. I give job to you =1 There is huge criminality in my country after the inflow of immigrants=1 I donate supplies to albanian organizations (police. hospitals etc)=1 I dont allow nobody to speak or have dreams about N.Epirus. Not even Epirots=1 I push you to get in EU and Nato=1 I impose a new culture to my voters like "you must accept immigrants even if you have been robbed by them. Unfortunately I loose a lot of votes from victims of crimes=1
So, Greece gets 6 points.
I want for these Respect and full rights for N.Epirots=-1 I want strong alliance with Greece and avoiding Turkish external policies in Balkans=-1 Stop Tsams as I stoped MAVI=-1 Embrace Hellenic Culture=-1 Avoid becoming a puppet of AngloSaxon external policies in Balkans=-1
So.. .we give 6 and we ask 5.... and you dont give even these 5 or you give half of each one.
That is how it works..
Now what I dont get is what Albanian offers and what asks for? Show me your wants from Greece and what Greeks give you with points... I doubt there is not even one demand from Albania that Greece didnt accept and I doubt there is not even "give" from Albania to Greece.
Come on. Lets do it with points... I really want to see how you see relations with Greece. Wants and Offers..
I'll help you...
Albania wants from Greece to recognize Kossovo=-1 Albania wants from Greece to accept more immigrants than Greece can handle=-1 Albania wants from Greece econimical help=-1 Albania wants from Greece help in Nato and EU path=-1 Albania wants from Greece to eliminate any voices from N.Epirots=-1 Albania wants from Greece to eliminate spend money so as to become better host country for immigrants=-1
...and here
Albanian gives to Greece..... = ?
I would love to see the end of point system...
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Post by insomniac on Mar 11, 2009 17:39:30 GMT -5
Basil things have to be proportional. I donate supplies to albanian organizations vs. Embrace Hellenic Culture. That's not proportional.
This is proportional. Greece to recognize Kossovo vs. Albania avoiding Turkish external policies in Balkans.
Greece to push for EU+NATO vs. Albanians friendly towards Greek rights
Only then can the system work. And for it to work both have to participate and the stronger one should lead the way. Otherwise the level of animosity between nations because of different policies will always remain.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 11, 2009 19:10:04 GMT -5
Um we’re missing something here...Greece is already in the E.U along with Nato and we need not give into anything. See it’s like “in laments terms” a nOOb comes into play, asks for membership, the countries who are already in the E.U will say. So what have you got to offer us. Do existing members have to negotiate to give something away ? I don’t thinks so on things that need to be addressed regarless. Besides we aren’t obliged to recognise Kosovo. Albania is obliged by international laws on human rights and it’s her obligations to respect their rights and the Epirotes will be asking the international bodies for help without Greece anyways. Also not harbouring hostility relations “must be in good neighbourly relations” with an existing E.U and Nato member is a membership requiremnt without negotiations. Albania's offer has to be something special.......You cannot deal with something that has to be addressed and is already part of E.U and Nato membership requirements, bad sales man ship by Insomniac I am afraid on behalf of Albania. . .
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Post by insomniac on Mar 11, 2009 22:07:52 GMT -5
We cannot play that game since we are not obliged either to stop "our relationship with Turkey" as Basil said. That's not a requirement by any law. Neither are we obliged to embrace hellenism. We should celebrates diversity and culture. Hey it's not me who asked about this trade-off.
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Post by captainalbania on Mar 11, 2009 23:05:58 GMT -5
Personally i find the Greek people charming. I've been to Greece twice, have been treated very nicely.
I don't know why you've become so much of a Turkophile, Melty. What have the Turks given us besides 500 years of taxes, while draining our land of resources.
Nothing good came out of the Turkish occupation and in the end they fucked us over.
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Post by insomniac on Mar 11, 2009 23:23:38 GMT -5
I agree with captain about the old times. However we must make a distinction with modern Turkey vs. Ottoman and its not in our nature to be rude. Rest assure they are the largest force in the Balkans and will continue to grow stronger.
However, Melty infatuation is stupid, really, and a bit over the top.
As i said to Basil, Greece has to change some of its policies for it to be viewed positively from Albania. Only then can better relations come. Albania will also reciprocate. Until then, I dont see anything changing.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 12, 2009 2:32:30 GMT -5
We cannot play that game since we are not obliged either to stop "our relationship with Turkey" as Basil said. Who is talking about friendship ? This is what you wrote; Do you pay attention to what you actually write Friendships and supporting Turkish foreign policies which is known to be aggressive in the Balkans are two different things, it is a E.U and Nato membership requirement for "Good neighbourly relations" just ask the Fyromians why they got Vetoed...Extending Turkish policies into the Balkans are not in E.U's interests, so therefor there is no trade off there nor is there for the rights of the Epirotes as explained on prior post. He asked you something which was a brilliant thing, test of wits. You failed miserably unfortunately for you, you have no clue on politics or how foreign policies may work, no offence but your are clueless. It's the truth and the truth is rude not me. Now let Basili get back to you on your trade off's if he is still interested. Now remember read + absorb = learn .
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Post by libofshe on Mar 12, 2009 8:10:13 GMT -5
greeks are incapable of selfless deeds/favors, whenever they are perceived as doing smth good or in the name of charity i always approach such gestures with a degree of apprehension...you never realy know what they are trying to get at hence the reputation for being disloyal and untrustworthy, you simply just can not trust them.
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Post by alb12345 on Mar 12, 2009 9:41:42 GMT -5
greek-albanian relations are not good wore not good and will be not good as long as greece goverment dont stab as us on the back as they done allways.1 the war law is still on with albania since ww2. 2 head of albanian orthodox religion to be a albanian. 3 stop paying poor villagers money to make as many greeks as you can in albania. 4 give chams what is theirs. 5 treat albanians emigrants like any other EU nacion stop jailing inocent people like we seen many wrong cases so far.6 stop confusing nacionalty with the religion.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 12, 2009 10:27:34 GMT -5
greek-albanian relations are not good wore not good and will be not good as long as greece goverment dont stab as us on the back as they done allways.1 the war law is still on with albania since ww2. The "state of war" doesn't exist since 1987. Read more newspapers...If it was still "active" the borders would be firmly closed...damn.... 2 head of albanian orthodox religion to be a albanian. Why you confuse religion with ethnicity ;D...the head of albanian orhodox church must be orthodox...and he is. 3 stop paying poor villagers money to make as many greeks as you can in albania. If I give you 10.000 will you become Greek? Is your national identity so strong that you can change it? 4 give chams what is theirs. Come and get it. Bring spme Nazis and Fascist troops with you... 5 treat albanians emigrants like any other EU nacion stop jailing inocent people like we seen many wrong cases so far. All decent albanian families are welcomed...and there are lot of them here,work and study here. If they didn't have a good time they could go to Italy...if the made it to reach the other side of Adriatic............... All tourkalvanoi criminals kalasnikof/hasis dealers are not welcomed,keep them in Albania. 6 stop confusing nacionalty with the religion.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 12, 2009 11:04:22 GMT -5
Even this Ottoman vs. Turkey dichotomy is rather dumb in the sense that we should somehow have a negative view of the Ottoman Empire. The majority of the Albanian people WERE Ottomans, as in active "citizens" of the state and at one time called the Sultan "Baba" (Father)... An Albanian cannot deride the Ottomans without deriding his ancestors since very likely were an active contributor of the empire. Albania is a descendant of an Ottoman Empire in the same sense as Turkey, or Bosnia....
It is a part of every pred. Muslim Balkan country as Byzantium is to Orthodox Christians...
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 12, 2009 11:20:14 GMT -5
Ottoman Empire was just as bad as Enver Hoxhas communism, don't kid yourself Sittlichkeit.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 12, 2009 11:24:00 GMT -5
It offered a Balkan union before any such thing was ever attempted. it granted unprecedented freedoms to its minorities and at its height took a giant dump on nations like France or Germany (which couldnt even compare to its level of organization and created myths and stories to counter their fears). It was a multicultural heart and added it to every one of its cities...
Say what you will, but the heart and soul of that empire remains in the inner heart and mind of every Alb... Communism and Hoxha attempted to destroy it by creating false realities, but in the end that too has failed.
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Post by libofshe on Mar 12, 2009 12:11:24 GMT -5
Sittlichkeit
what the f*** are you talkign about, sometimes it is really mind boggling to hear your verbal diorrhea, you have this urge every so often to just go off on mindless tirades about this ottoman bond we allegedly have, like there is some special link or smth, we were the ones that defied them the most, we were the ones that rejected them at every opportunity, we refused they literature and alphabet, and when greeks and serbs got cozy and received favours we were fighting them for a square inch of land, now i have no problem with calling it like i see it but i seem to recall that our ancestors put up the fiercest and staunchiest resistance so don't be wandering off on one of your trademark turkish nuthugging rants.
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