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Post by jerryspringer on Mar 16, 2009 9:56:51 GMT -5
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 16, 2009 11:23:06 GMT -5
How do we know they had the same father?
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 16, 2009 11:34:36 GMT -5
Yes,yes, and Athena was black ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 16, 2009 13:45:11 GMT -5
lol lol lol Black Pride!! Go Black Panthers Go!!
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 16, 2009 17:51:17 GMT -5
Thats not altogether wrong. There are a number of references in Greek sources of a kind of 'exotic' appearence of black Africans (Aithiops). Herodotus calls their men the most beautiful men in the world (along with the tallest) and in Plato along with later Roman satyres/comedies the whole notion of a woman cheating on her husband with a dark slave is poked fun of through the resulting child.
However, from what descriptions we have of Cleo, while she doesnt sound particularly attractive (she seems to have sported a hooked nose), she doesnt seem African either... but then again, mixture is mixture. One thing is for sure, she descended from inbreeders. lol
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 16, 2009 19:41:15 GMT -5
What about your snout Melty.... where did that karamooza come from...? Honest question.... I have not seen that in any other albs.
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Post by jerryspringer on Mar 16, 2009 19:52:36 GMT -5
Are you retarded? Cleo was described as having a straight nose and being very beautiful. Dude, let go of that shyt. It's not for you. You don't have what it takes. You will never get there, dude. Never ever, ever. EVER!
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 16, 2009 21:08:08 GMT -5
Cleo coinage... And a description from Plutarch's life of Anthony: For her actual beauty, it is said, was not in itself so remarkable that none could be compared with her, or that no one could see her without being struck by it, but the contact of her presence, if you lived with her, was irresistible; the attraction of her person, joining with the charm of her conversation, and the character that attended all she said or did, was something bewitching. It was a pleasure merely to hear the sound of her voice, with which, like an instrument of many strings, she could pass from one language to another; so that there were few of the barbarian nations that she answered by an interpreter; to most of them she spoke herself, as to the Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabians, Syrians, Medes, Parthians, and many others, whose language she had learnt; which was all the more surprising because most of the kings, her predecessors, scarcely gave themselves the trouble to acquire the Egyptian tongue, and several of them quite abandoned the Macedonian. Anittas, shall I say: PWNED??? ;D
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 16, 2009 21:38:48 GMT -5
^ Melty and to all Albs please provide links to your sources like everyone else does.
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Post by jerryspringer on Mar 16, 2009 22:01:33 GMT -5
Cleo coinage... And a description from Plutarch's life of Anthony: For her actual beauty, it is said, was not in itself so remarkable that none could be compared with her, or that no one could see her without being struck by it, but the contact of her presence, if you lived with her, was irresistible; the attraction of her person, joining with the charm of her conversation, and the character that attended all she said or did, was something bewitching. It was a pleasure merely to hear the sound of her voice, with which, like an instrument of many strings, she could pass from one language to another; so that there were few of the barbarian nations that she answered by an interpreter; to most of them she spoke herself, as to the Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabians, Syrians, Medes, Parthians, and many others, whose language she had learnt; which was all the more surprising because most of the kings, her predecessors, scarcely gave themselves the trouble to acquire the Egyptian tongue, and several of them quite abandoned the Macedonian. Anittas, shall I say: PWNED??? ;D No, you should not say pwned. You said that she was not particularly attractive. Plutarch, which you quoted above, wrote that her beauty was not so remarkable. What does that mean? It means that she was attractive, but not so remarkably beautiful. That's not the same as saying that she was not particularly attractive.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 16, 2009 22:15:13 GMT -5
1. I did source it Life of Anthony, there are a million webpages which have the whole Plutarch bio, the coin can be found by simply putting Cleopatra coinage... Im not going to bother citing things continually since this isnt a school paper... its a forum...
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 16, 2009 22:20:39 GMT -5
I m not going to bother citing things continually since this isnt a school paper... its a forum... Yes it’s a forum where some of you try and pass an opinion as facts and is well known most of you guy’s do this on Illyria forums, it’s better one posts a link, oh common how hard is it ? I mean even the Fyromians do it ! Let me try; www.answers.com/topic/lullaby^ That took my 3 seconds.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 16, 2009 22:35:03 GMT -5
Your not under any circumstance forced to take my postings fact... they are my posts, if they convince you thats fine, if they dont... Im not bothered. However you have no right to touch my posts regardless....
My nose isnt very Alb, admitedly, since the Alb nose is pretty Roman (dinaric Armenoid). In Albania we call it the "Scanderbeg nose"(hunda e Skenderbeut). My nose was getting there, but my mixed blood stopped it short but left it big... ;D
But Im thankful my nose doesnt hook... thats horrible and evil looking... ;D
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 16, 2009 22:49:48 GMT -5
^ Watch me if it breaks anti Hellenic rule part......
I will not tolerate anti-Hellenic propaganda ( = any such opinions not backed up by facts). As I consider Illyrians but a branch of wider Hellenistic world (Hellenism being THE ONLY PROVABLE AND TRACEABLE cornerstone of ancient Balkans / Haimos including southern Illyria while Hellenism is by far the shiniest star from Europe and its cornerstone that shines over the entire planet) I take insults directed at Hellenes/Hellenism very personally (perfect way to get banned!).
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 16, 2009 22:56:51 GMT -5
Lol, aadmins ignorant drivel. So he fuked a Greek chick and suddenly became the spokesman of hellenism... I stand by my statement. He can ban me if he wants... since that very comment above is nonsense...
Like i said, your under no circumstance to take my posts as fact... I will continue to write, if you have a problem with my post, let aadmin see it and he can judge for himself. Until then I stand by my statement...
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 16, 2009 23:02:20 GMT -5
LoL !!! just provide a link to your source, it isn’t hard !!!!!
Edit: Maybe you misread me or I didn’t write it right ? I don’t see anything wrong with the above post. I will delete when it does break the above rule is what I meant with "Watch me if it breaks anti Hellenic rule part".
A source would be nice still, I just want to looky at it...
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Post by jerryspringer on Mar 16, 2009 23:58:05 GMT -5
Melty, do you have a source for Cleo's nose being hooked? Or is that your personal opinion, which of course means nothing. If you must look at her nose, why not post her statue, which by far is more accurate than the her depiction on a coin?
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Post by jerryspringer on Mar 16, 2009 23:59:31 GMT -5
How do we know they had the same father? Unless Ptolemy's wife was someone else's squeeze, then we can conclude that they had the same father. Unless they were not sisters or God decided to screw around, as he did to Marry.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 17, 2009 0:21:10 GMT -5
Actually... no, well, rarely... Most often busts of Hellenistic people was done AFTER they lived. The Romans had the habit of making contemporary busts, and this increased during the imperial period(and even here is becomes problematic, if you look at all the various busts of Julius Ceasar youll note that there are significant differences among the various types, some dont even portray him as he is described: bald/ing). Greeks tended to make busts out of ideals rather than real . In which case most Greek busts cannot be relied upon (the bust of Socrates, for instance, is a later creation based of off statements made in Plato's works that he looks like a satyr). In fact If you go to the wiki page on Alcibiades, youll see that he seems to look incredibly similar to the bust of Alexander... Most likely it was a mistaken one. Alcibiades, like Alexander, was noted for his looks and at some point the two were mistaken. Same with a youthful bust of Hannibal, which is also cited as a Mauritanian prince. This happens with many busts. They give us incite into representation rather than reality. I mean, there were busts of Hellen out there (which look very very similar to those of Cleopatra)... who the hell knew what Hellen looked like? Samething with the busts of Brutus, the original tyranicide, not the later one.
You also have a later tradition of naming surviving busts of a figure. So for instance if a bust is found someone will just come out and say "well this is a bust of Cleopatra" and a tradition is created. The dating of the busts are often difficult in themselves since we have to rely not on inscriptions but rather on things like hairstyles etc.
One of the very very few busts which are trusted, are those of Alexander, simply because they were done so very close to his lifetime.
coinage offers a contemporary insight which we often lack in the busts...
The portrayal of Cleopatra as a beautiful woman is a rather modern one. For instance in the middle-age Muslim world (where the memory of Cleo survived more strongly), she was noted as a patron of the sciences, as a philosopher and an brilliant woman. Her beauty is something that didnt seem to have been considered mich.
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Post by jerryspringer on Mar 17, 2009 0:46:55 GMT -5
I just think it's funny that you post a source to strengthen your argument and instead make it contradict yourself. Professor Melty....I guess you dream of living the life of Indiana Jones. More like Albania[n] Jokes.
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