ioan
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Apr 12, 2009 12:55:00 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 12, 2009 12:55:00 GMT -5
Basil, I like u I think u re one of the very reasonable guys here. However there is something very strange in your grandpas story: why would Bulgarians want to register Macednonian Bulgarians as "Macedonians"?
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Apr 12, 2009 13:14:52 GMT -5
Post by Kassandros on Apr 12, 2009 13:14:52 GMT -5
ioan "Basil, I like u I think u re one of the very reasonable guys here." ---------------------------------------------------------- thanks a lot. "However there is something very strange in your grandpas story: why would Bulgarians want to register Macednonian Bulgarians as "Macedonians"? " ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I really dont know.... It is weird.. isnt it ? I dont know what they say in Bulgaria about Macedonian Stuggle in 1904... but I will tell you what we say here in Greece and especcially in Macedonia. Maybe that has a connection.. We say that when Greeks and Bulgarians understood that Ottoman Empire will collapse, they head a meeting in order to avoid war between the 2 new free countries. Bulgarians were saying that we should split the land based on what language people speak in villages... and Greeks were saying that we should split the land based on what nationality people were believing they belong to. Most propably Greeks didnt want the language as a criterion because many Greeks were speaking "Bulgarian"... and Bulgarians didnt want the natinional consius thing... because more would declare Greeks. Who really knows..... but the Macedonian Struggle happened and then after 40 years WW2 followed. For sure all of the south Bulgarian soldiers were the todays Fyromians and they were back then the ones who lost in the Macedonian Struggle. They had dead people in their families and they wanted to take revenge... They even came with a list of names the first day of occupation of the village. They were searching the sons of the Macedonian fighters during the Macedonian Struggle. They ones got caught executed immedietly. The rest ones became gorillas in the mountains. I really dont know... its a weird situation.... in an isolated village. Nothing we gonna learn in an official history book. Maybe... by declaring Greek or Macedonian.... that meant Greek or Bulgarian in their data.. Maybe.... they wanted a separation like that to have ready lists in case of exchange of population with Greece.... Maybe the official govnt of Bulgaria back then had a plan.. that we'll never know since they were allies of Germans and lost the war.. Maybe it was something unofficial from fanatic soldiers, kids of the ones who lost in Macedonian Struggle... Maybe.... who knows.. I really dont know the answer..
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Apr 12, 2009 18:15:43 GMT -5
Post by Kastorianos on Apr 12, 2009 18:15:43 GMT -5
Hello Bigmac.
And now get lost...you microbe from the volga.
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Apr 12, 2009 19:54:07 GMT -5
Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 12, 2009 19:54:07 GMT -5
Hello Bigmac. And now get lost...you microbe from the volga. Σιγά Kastorianos.
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BigMac
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Apr 13, 2009 9:57:14 GMT -5
Post by BigMac on Apr 13, 2009 9:57:14 GMT -5
I was born in 1981. I remember my uncle when I was about four years old who was from the Greek region of Macedonia saying that he was a Macedonian. I used to ask him where Macedonia was and he used to say he could see Yugoslavia from the mountains where he lived. BigMac, What was the name of your country in approximately 1985? Socialist Republic of Macedonia Very sad to hear. No who? If you're saying Macedonians you would be incorrect. Most were in the Macedonian Partisans, fighting against the Bulgarians en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_War_of_Macedonia
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ioan
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Apr 13, 2009 12:41:16 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 13, 2009 12:41:16 GMT -5
Big Mac tnks for the link! Very useful info here:
As the Bulgarian Army entered Vardar Macedonia on 19 April, 1941, it was greeted by most of the local population as liberators, as it meant the end of Serbian rule. Anti-Serban and pro-Bulgarian feelings among the local population at this period prevailed.
In 1941 the regional committee of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia (RC of CPY) for Vardar Macedonia was headed by Metodi Shatorov - Sharlo from Prilep. When the directive for the organization of an armed resistance movement in all regions of occupied Yugoslavia was issued, Sharlo disobeyed the order.[17]. Sharlo answered the Central Committee (CC) of the CPY that the situation in Macedonia does not allow an immediate engagement with military action, but rather first propaganda activity, and afterward formation of military units. On the other hand Metodi Shatorov also refused to define the Bulgarian forces as occupiers (contrary to instructions from Belgrade) and called for the incorporation of the local Macedonian Communist organizations within the Bulgarian Communist Party (BCP). The Macedonian Regional Committee refused to remain in contact with CPY and linked up with BCP. Sharlo even refused to distribute the proclamation of the YCP which called for military action against Bulgarians.[18] In that time, the Comintern had different agenda for the resolution of the Macedonian Question - an independent Macedonian state governed by a majority population of ethnic Macedonians (this idea was confirmed by the Resolution of the Comintern from 1934, and was supported by the BCP, Communist Party of Greece (CPG) and the CPY). But in 1939 the CPY started imposing the idea of formation of a Macedonian state, but within a Yugoslav federation. Shatorov was opposed to the second option and was a partisan of the Comintern agenda, which proposed a creation of a "Soviet Macedonia". During the Summer of 1943, Svetozar Vukmanovic-Tempo at meetings with representatives of EAM and the Albanian resistance put forward the idea of a joint Balkan Headquarters to exercise supreme control over the partisan movements of Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Moreover, with the professed aim of combating Bulgarian propaganda, Tempo asked for the recognition to the ethnic Macedonian people of the right to self-determination, as well as permission for the partisans from Vardar Macedonia to extend their activity among the Slavic-speaking population in Greek Macedonia. It was apparent that Mihailov had broader plans which envisaged the creation of a Macedonian state under a German control. He was follower of the idea about an United Macedonian state with prevailing Bulgarian element.[29] Unlike the leftist resistance, the right wing followers of pro-Bulgarian IMRO of Ivan Mihailov considered the ethnic Macedonians to be Bulgarians, did not support the existence of a separate Macedonian people and they saw the solution of the Macedonian Question in creating a right-wing greater Macedonian state. In the summer of 1944 Ivan Mihailov in coordination with the Gestapo tried to make a final effort to impose his influence in Macedonia. He was transported in a German convoy to German occupied Skopje, where the Germans hoped that he could form a Macedonian state with their support on the base of IMRO. Seeing that the war is lost to Germany, and that the wider Macedonian masses are loyal to the Macedonian National Liberation Movement led by the CPM, he refused. Seeing that the Macedonian sentiment has triumphed during the several years of struggle, Mihailov's last words were "Let Macedonia without Bulgarians burn in hell" ("Ìàêåäîíèÿ áåç áúëãàðè, îãúí äà ÿ ãîðè"). After the meeting in Skopje, Mihajlov escaped in Italy where he died in 1991.
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BigMac
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Apr 13, 2009 14:19:18 GMT -5
Post by BigMac on Apr 13, 2009 14:19:18 GMT -5
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ioan
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Apr 13, 2009 16:03:59 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 13, 2009 16:03:59 GMT -5
Strange how you so called "Macedonians" ALWAYS read only what u want to read from big passage. Will u deny that most of fyrom leaders from 19-20 centuries identified as Bulgarians from geographic region of Macedonia? What will u say about the bitola inscription where SAmuels nephew calls himself Bulgarian by birth? Why for so many centuries all writers saw Bulgarians, not Macedonians in fyrom?
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BigMac
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Apr 13, 2009 17:48:59 GMT -5
Post by BigMac on Apr 13, 2009 17:48:59 GMT -5
The most important part that counts His nephew lol.. My nephew is half Australian and is a true blue Aussie I have Serbian friends who have Croatian uncles.. in the future they will have Croatian nephews lol does that make them Croatian?
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ioan
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Apr 13, 2009 23:12:25 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 13, 2009 23:12:25 GMT -5
ok i see so u agree samuel was bulgarian (he is called king of bulgaria). Since Ioan Radomir considers himselfg BUlgarian that means samuel was Bulgarian too. Read the inscription. So u just dont care, you do not want to accept it. But the world knows who you really are, my friend.
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BigMac
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Apr 14, 2009 23:39:38 GMT -5
Post by BigMac on Apr 14, 2009 23:39:38 GMT -5
Did Samuel say he considers himself Bulgarian? Or was it just his nephew?
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ioan
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Apr 15, 2009 0:14:31 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 15, 2009 0:14:31 GMT -5
His nephew yes but no inscription was found from him. However all the sources call him Bulgarian tzar, his people Bulgarians and his country Bulgaria. Please present us with a document where he is called Macedonian or Wannabe Serb at least.
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BigMac
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Apr 15, 2009 4:49:03 GMT -5
Post by BigMac on Apr 15, 2009 4:49:03 GMT -5
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ioan
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Apr 15, 2009 8:22:43 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 15, 2009 8:22:43 GMT -5
you cleverly ignore the FACTS that: 1. all sources call him Bulgarian; 2. not a single document calls him Macedonian.
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BigMac
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Apr 15, 2009 19:31:15 GMT -5
Post by BigMac on Apr 15, 2009 19:31:15 GMT -5
You Bulgarians are good people but you guys should really start getting your own history, its a little embarressing.. No offence ofcourse
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Apr 15, 2009 19:43:51 GMT -5
Post by kartadolofonos on Apr 15, 2009 19:43:51 GMT -5
dear serbski & bulgarski friend embrace your lost serbobulgaro brothers of vardarska and teach them the real serbianbulgarian slav history and about the greek term of the name Macedonia who is only one and Greek and everthing is fine again ! ;D
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ioan
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Apr 15, 2009 22:36:16 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 15, 2009 22:36:16 GMT -5
no offence BigMac, but if you really start reading the sources about Samuel and neglect the "Macedonian" propaganda you ll see that Bulgarians do learn and read their history: cause Samuel was a bulgarian king, his state was called Bulgaria and his people: Bulgarians. Your so called "Macedonian" people till the 40ties identified as Bulgarians. Even the person that wrote Slavyanobulgarska history was Paisii Hilendarski. He wrote: "uou, stupid man, why are you ashamed to call yourself Bulgarian" and he started the national revival. He was fyromian because he was born in Pirin Macedonia.\ Strange, isnt it, how much Bulgaria was/is connected to Macedonia. It is so because we used to be one people not till long time ago.
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Apr 16, 2009 0:29:52 GMT -5
Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 16, 2009 0:29:52 GMT -5
^ yes monk Pajsije was once a vice abbot at the serbian monastery of Hilandar, he was inspired by Jovan Rajich and hence the Slaveno-bugarska istorija.
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Apr 16, 2009 0:35:33 GMT -5
Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 16, 2009 0:35:33 GMT -5
There is not much connection between vardarska and Balgarska, again, can you quote more cases in which the name Bulgaria was mentioned in Southern Serbia before the exarchists began their work.....Jordan Ivanov, the cheif Bulgarian authority on the Bulgarian character of vardar was able to quote it acouple of times. ;D
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ioan
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Apr 16, 2009 1:16:03 GMT -5
Post by ioan on Apr 16, 2009 1:16:03 GMT -5
shut it novi and go reading your German antropologist or geologist or whatever his job was who very well distinguished Serbian from Bulgarian.
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