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Post by SKORIC on Apr 21, 2009 1:27:09 GMT -5
Yes but you're still incorrect. As per usual Meanings for words dont revolve around you like you think everything does Sorry, but I agree with illyria. The word may have a different connotation to people in different countries. HERE, in Canada, a nation built on immigration, much like Australia, when you say "first generation", its referring to the ones with citizenship who were not born here. Second generation are the children of the immigrants. What exactly would you call the Canadians who weren't born here then? I have never encountered the word being used any differently. The word may very well have different meanings though. Edited: dictionary.reference.com/browse/first%20generationDictionary.com lists both definitions. I believe that identifying illyria as 2nd generation is much more common though. I just wanted to piss illyria off by telling her how wrong she is. ;D But you and Paja had to go ahead and be gentlemen No idea how people in other countries say it. The way i understood it is what i have shown.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 5:54:17 GMT -5
True zgembo we would end up being third of fourth if 3 people above us were born O/S.....too many meanings. About your comment on people being hateful, usually (but not always) they have a reason for it. Though hate is a big word. You will also find Italians and Greeks in the dijaspora and the rest of them being negative towards others. Also Anglo Australians being negative towards us immigrants, even us who were born here copped alot of crap in school for no reason whatsoever. So the hate and ignorance is all around us. Racism exists everywhere. I just get accused of that because as I think it was Skoric who said, I am a Serbist lol :-)
I come across many people everyday and the ones that show the most pride and nationalism and religionism (if that word exists) are the Greeks and the Jews. But I can't blame them for that, they are still good people to have a chat too. But would they really accept me? No they wouldn't...
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Post by soko on Apr 21, 2009 6:35:08 GMT -5
My impression is that most of the supposed patriotism of the diaspora is just a compensation for their "failure" in life, seen as most people got a lower social status when they move abroad, and get s**t for being immigrants. People that might have been rather well off back home. I don't know north America, but strictly for Europe my impression is that going around with patriotic t-shirts, nd s**t like that is just a "bijeg od stvarnosti" that faces them each day......
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 7:08:45 GMT -5
Failure what failure? People were successful back home and even more so in their new countries. The extreme patriotism comes from wanting freedom, it comes from having to go through so much pain and heartache to get that freedom.
There are 2 different types of patriotism. That of one who feels better than other races no matter what feeling like the "chosen ones" (i.e Jews) and that of the Balkan nature. I don;t need to explain the Balkan one :-)
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 7:40:04 GMT -5
The extreme patriotism comes from wanting freedom, it comes from having to go through so much pain and heartache to get that freedom. How can a second generation feel so patriotic and wanting freedom of something he/she never experienced?
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 8:30:49 GMT -5
Who said they never experienced it? Many were there before/during and after the war. Just because are not there now doesn't mean they havn't lived the balkan ghost.
How can the jews and muslims feel so patriotic for their history in Israel.... that they lay claim to be the truest and most holy of places generations after? Why do they still need to teach their children the religion and Hebrew and Arabic languages? Because they can!
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 8:48:21 GMT -5
Who said they never experienced it? Many were there before/during and after the war. Just because are not there now doesn't mean they havn't lived the balkan ghost. U are a second generation dijaspora. I dont know how u can "understand" how it was in balkans when u havent even lived there? How can the jews and muslims feel so patriotic for their history in Israel.... that they lay claim to be the truest and most holy of places generations after? Why do they still need to teach their children the religion and Hebrew and Arabic languages? Because they can! Ivanka History and traditions dont have anything to do with being patriotic for one country. I have heard many jews here who said they dont pay attention to whats happening in israel at all. I just find this so funny when second gen dijaspora are trying so hard to be nationalists and what not.. And some of them dont even know the language.. a big LOL
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 9:08:25 GMT -5
Please stop talking about me and my experiences or lack there of, I am talking about in general. Some people can just understand things, and do not need to experience it themselves to understand it. Which is why I loved talking to all kinds of people. In that I do understand how it was, how it is, and how it eventually will be.
C'mon patriotic for country OR religion is excluding others and in turn excluding yourself from the world. That's not in just keeping "traditions". That's being patriotic in it's excesses where you think you are better than any other race, and do not mix with any other race.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 9:48:08 GMT -5
Please stop talking about me and my experiences or lack there of, I am talking about in general. Some people can just understand things, and do not need to experience it themselves to understand it. Which is why I loved talking to all kinds of people. In that I do understand how it was, how it is, and how it eventually will be. C'mon patriotic for country OR religion is excluding others and in turn excluding yourself from the world. That's not in just keeping "traditions". That's being patriotic in it's excesses where you think you are better than any other race, and do not mix with any other race. Ivanka,, u are trying to hard. What u hear from others dont matter.. If u ask and albanian and a serb how it is in kosovo u are gonna get two different storys. U cant understand something until u self experienced it.. Tacka
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 10:02:24 GMT -5
Of course everyones story is different and that's the way I like it. It's like if you asked a few people here how it is you will get different responses depending on their experiences and life status. That's what makes the world wonderful no two people are the same.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 10:15:28 GMT -5
Of course everyones story is different and that's the way I like it. It's like if you asked a few people here how it is you will get different responses depending on their experiences and life status. That's what makes the world wonderful no two people are the same. I understand u. But still u cant understand it until u experienced it. U can just belive or have an idea or assume how it is/was. etc etc I dont know how it is to live in Australia by looking at travelshows and hear what people have to say because i have never lived there.. Easy as that.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 10:24:30 GMT -5
Well this posses and interesting philosophical discussion. Because stories can sometimes make us who we are. Are we then meant to disregard or disbelieve what people tell us because that is what the lived through, that is what they experienced and that's how they saw it at the time? Are you meant to disbelieve what I say and believe it as untrue?
Would you rather an average lawyer to defend you because he experienced what you had or an exceptional lawyer who didn't go through what you did but understands and can make a better outcome?
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 10:33:40 GMT -5
Well this posses and interesting philosophical discussion. Because stories can sometimes make us who we are. Are we then meant to disregard or disbelieve what people tell us because that is what the lived through, that is what they experienced and that's how they saw it at the time? Are you meant to disbelieve what I say and believe it as untrue? Would you rather an average lawyer to defend you because he experienced what you had or an exceptional lawyer who didn't go through what you did but understands and can make a better outcome? Let's put it like this.. I would'nt talk on a forum about how it is in the balkans acording to what some random people ive met said.. Nothing personally.. theres just so many dumb storys. Once a swedish guy asked me how can u be bosnian and serb at the same time.. Guess what, some boslim told him that there aint no Bosnian serbs or croats, just bosnian catholics and orthodox. Thats my point, u cant really understand how it is unless u have experienced it. Im not telling that u dont know shit but u cant know as much as some one who actually been there..
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 21, 2009 10:39:14 GMT -5
I'm not talking about random people, I'm talking about key figures in our lives. Those people that share stories that we will also continue on sharing for eternity...
lol, many boslims have said that to me also. I just say to them. It ok you are NOT Croatian, but YOU are a Croat :-) If the boslims want to believe their propaganda than they can believe mine :-)
Funny on your last comment also. I actually do know more about history and politics than many people living there and abroad. Some people just don't care...which is fair enough.
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Post by fazlinho on Apr 21, 2009 12:17:26 GMT -5
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