The Bushati Dynasty

[rebelyell]

I was wondering if anyone has any info on this family? Their origins, politics, battles, etc. I read about them in Noel Malcolm's book but I can't really find anything else on them (there's some stuff in Albanian on the 'net, but I can't read it all that well). I know one of them rebelled against the Ottomans and I think also waged war on Ali Pasha. I'm pretty interested in learning more about them. Thanks.

[donnie]

I suggest you read Stavri N. Naçi's two books about the dynasty; the first deals with the two successful early Bushatis, namely Mustafa Bushati and his son Karamahmut Bushati. The second one deals with the reign of Ibrahim Bushati and Mustafa Bushati. Naçi's book is most interesting because besides describing the political aspect of this dynasty's ascent to power, their height and final demise, he also describes the contemporary economy in interesting numbers, and how the Bushati family succeeded in lifting the Shkodra area's economy through various reforms, among others the breaking of Venetian trade monopoly and the subjugation of Ulqinak pirates. They united the highlands as well, and Catholic highlanders composed the bulk of their forces, enjoying relative prosperity as well.

[ILIRI I MADH]

The only guy that I have met with the last name bushati is that singer Ervin Bushati and he is the biggest fag ever, I mean he had a freakin man purse dude wtf...

Other then that I know that the Bushati family in the north and Ali Pasha Tepelena in the south were one of the first who had the chance to create a independent albania and to rebel against the Ottomans.

[rebelyell]

Hey Dijedon, do you know anything specific about about there battles with the Turks and in Montenegro?

[highduke]

Yeah, the 'turks' were actualy eurochechen Albanians.

[highduke]

The Bushati are descended from Stanisa Crnojevic. Njegos corresponded mith Mustafa-pasa Bushati in Serbian, who threatened to take the Montenegrin throne on the basis of his ancestry. Let me also add that if you go indexmundi.com, then go to Republic of Georgia, you wil find a vilage called BUSHATI

[rebelyell]

Very interesting. Did you know that Stefan Crnojevic was half eurochecehn from his mother, the daughter of Koja Zakarija? And Ivan Crnojevic, Stefan's son, was 3/4 eurochechen because his mother was Albanian as well? Ivan Crnojevic also married Gojsava Arianiti, the eurochechen George Arianiti's daughter? So that would make Stanisa (Ivan's son, who became known as Skanderbeg when he converted to Islam) like what, 90% eurochechen?

As I said, stick to trolling your own threads. Bye.

[highduke]

Medieval identities were patrilineal but yeah, I know he had much eurochechen blood, either way, Albanians had honor in medieval times but after the Turks took over, the traitor muslim converts outbred the Christians & fostered a new perverted mentality changing the Albanian ethnos for the worst but I respect medieval Albs greatly

[ILIRI I MADH]

How do you respect the medieval albs when they are chechens?

[PARIS DIO_MYSUS!]

Bushat is a Village near city Shkodra (Scutary) in Albania.
Here the Link
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushat

BushAti is Albanian word which means
God's land with Bush Trees!!!
Bush+Ati
Bush=Tree
Ati=Father (God)
Bush tree and wood is easy to work and
make from that fine artistic productions.

Cheers

Myself,
Mystagogue !!!!!

[donnie]

The Bushati are descended from Stanisa Crnojevic. Njegos corresponded mith Mustafa-pasa Bushati in Serbian, who threatened to take the Montenegrin throne on the basis of his ancestry.

LOL. There is a fairer chance that Karadjordje was an Albanian of the Kelmendi clan, although I am not fond of the idea of being associated with a swine-herder

Even if the Bushati made claim of descending from the Crnojevices, that does not suffice as 'evidence'; there is a probable chance they fabricated such a genealogy to legitimize their ambitions to conquor Montenegro! I mean, they also claimed descent from Skanderbeg. In either case, common belief upholds the Ristvanbegovices (or Rizvanbegovic) of Stolac as the descendants of Stefan Crnojevic.

Besides, the Bushati family name is purely Albanian!

Let me also add that if you go indexmundi.com, then go to Republic of Georgia, you wil find a vilage called BUSHATI

So now we're both Georgian & Chechen? Take a pick already. You do know, I hope, that not even these two, despite the geographic proximity, are linguistically related; Georgian belongs to the South Caucasian linguistic family whereas Chechen to the Nakh linguistic family, to which belong also Ingush and Bats.

As far as the toponym Bushat goes, if the root is common, then it is Albanian settlers in Caucasus and not settlers from Caucasus in Albania who spread the name. Why? Bushat, according to linguistics, is an old Albanian term which means 'upper village', as opposed to 'nënshat' (lower village). The second syllable comes from the word 'fshat' (sat in Romanian), meaning village, which in turn is of Latin origins, namely from fossatum, which in turn comes from 'fossa' meaning ditch or moat.

You clearly need to know the languages you're studying, highpicka, before making sensational claims. Not all (particularly old) words and especially etymologies can be found in online dictionaries. Conclusively, either Albanians from Albania settled in Caucasus (not vice-versa) or, this is just a coincidence, much like Dodona in Epirus and Dodoma in Kenya.

[donnie]

Back to topic;

Jan 10, 2009 12:56:40 GMT -5 rebelyell said:

Hey Dijedon, do you know anything specific about about there battles with the Turks and in Montenegro?

Well, my house is a mess right now and couldn't find Stavri Naçi's books, though I'll keep looking. The most interesting figure in my opinion is that of Karamahmut Bushati. He succeeded in defeating Ottoman forces sent by the High Porte on two occasions; he was besieged in Rozafa twice you know. His persistence and the aid he received from the Malsors rescued him. I'll try to bring in more details later.

Against the Montenegrins, he had initial success. An early campaign of his resulted in the subjugation of the Montenegrins and the capture of Cetinje. He also controlled Brda after various expeditions against notable clans there such as Piper and Vasojevic. But as the fool he was, he did not pursue this to establish a definite control; there were various reasons for this, among others to avoid rivalry with Bosnian and Herzegovinian pashas but also to avoid a conflict with Venice which had its colonies alongside the Montenegrin coast, such as Cattaro. And so, the Vladika of Montenegro succeeded in uniting the clans of Brda with him, forcing Karamahmut Bushati to initiate a new campaign against them in 1796. This time, however, the Montenegrins were better prepared and succeeded into luring Karamahmut into a trap, surrounding him and eventually killing him. It is said that had the Mirditores come in time, the battle might've ended differently.

[rebelyell]

Do you know what clans specifically helped him (other than the Mirdita). I think that my clan, Hoti, helped his father take Ulqin but I'm not sure.

[donnie]

Jan 11, 2009 13:14:46 GMT -5 rebelyell said:

Do you know what clans specifically helped him (other than the Mirdita). I think that my clan, Hoti, helped his father take Ulqin but I'm not sure.

Actually, the clan of Mirdita was initially an adversary of the Bushati dynasty. Only later on did they become his allies. Without a doubt, the strongest component in the Bushati army were the Catholic highlanders of Malësia e Mbishkodrës (Hoti, Kastrati, Shkreli, Kelmendi etc) and Dukagjin (Shala, Shoshi etc). Initially, it was the clan of Kelmendi which was "fisi i parë" in all of the highlands. But in the battle against the Venetians in Ulqin, the brave warriors of Hoti excelled in bravery, and so they replaced Kelmendi. After that, it was common place to show reverance to the fierce warriors of Hoti, the great bastion against Montenegrin invasions.

Respekt pra edhe për ty si pasardhës i trimave të këtij fisi!

[highduke]

Mysia's etymology for bushati males more sense than donnie's, which is more of a cop-out.

[donnie]

It just goes out to show you're at the same mental level as that guy ... which is no surprise, highpicka.

[highduke]

Why is there a village in Georgia called BASHKIMI? Wanna explain that with your over-the-top 'etymology' lok what a joke lol

[donnie]

I only know that 'bashkim' means unity in Albanian, from the word 'bashk' meaning together. 'Coincidentally', in Homeric Greek there is a phrase which says 'vask ithi' (go together); in Albanian it would be 'bashk ec' -- see the resemblance between 'bashk' and 'vask'? They also have the same meaning ... as opposed to "Bashkimi" in Georgia which might mean anything ... and if it means 'unity' then it is Albanian settlers in Caucasus, not vice-versa, who spread it, due to the obvious (cognate) connection with Homeric Greek. But be realistic; why would villagers name a village "unity" lol. Itg probably has some other etymology in Georgian.

For above source I have the work of Aristidh Kola, who in the search of Albanian-Homeric cognates used these parts of the Iliad; A 35,105, 189, 115, 67, 570, 437, 209.

PS This thread is about the Bushati dynasty. If you wish to discuss toponyms, words and their etymologies, you know where to go (the thread which you started).

[rebelyell]

Respekt pra edhe për ty si pasardhës i trimave të këtij fisi!

Thanks. As they say "first among Eurochechens"...or was it Georgians? LOL.

Although I believe that Ulqin at that time wasn't Venetian (they lost in 1570 or something like that), but a pirate town.

[donnie]

Correct, The Venetians weren't in control of the city, but they tried to. And so the highlanders came to their aid under Bushati command. I can imagine the fear of the Italianos, lol.

Yep, fisi i parë. Gruda was fisi i mejdanit. and so on ...