Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 29, 2009 3:48:29 GMT -5
Obviously, your viewpoint is totally different than my own. Yes, I do think that most converts to Islam willingly did and yes they liked its message. We also know the Bosnians were part of a heretical Christian sect which didn't consider Jesus as son of God, just like Muslims believe. By the way, Christians seem to make a huge deal out of people converting to Islam. It is their choice if they change religion or not. It's their life. No one forced anyone to convert. And by the way, there isn't much of a difference between a Muslim and a Christian. They are closer to each other than the media makes you believe. But, everyone knows the majority of the empire remained Christian. Even the Ottoman Sultans were crowned by the Greek Patriarche, did you know that? I don't blame Ottomans for the massive convertions back then...they were conquers...they did their job...I blame the mourtats(ex-giaours) who in the most cases (even if there were exceptions) converted for personal benefits or cowardliness. Back then you had a much better life in Balkans if you were called Abdullah than Kostas... Its not about changing religion generally, its about converting to islam during the Ottoman yoke....back then it meant much more than a "simple" sunet... Of course and the majority of the empire should have remained christian...thats how the millet system worked...no giaour ...extra-para yok...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 29, 2009 18:18:19 GMT -5
oh god... let go of the past move on.... seems the Armenians already have.
holidaying in Turkey n stuff...
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 30, 2009 13:20:24 GMT -5
Patrionos, most Christians did not convert to Islam during the Ottomans. And if some did, you should accept it. That happens everywhere in the world. Whatever happened happened. It's now time to look to the future
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 30, 2009 14:11:29 GMT -5
personally speaking thracian...i wont forget this until the turkish ppl acknowledge what happened. A formal recognition will bury this issue and then we can look in the future. Until that day happens...this will be constantly brought up.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 30, 2009 14:29:47 GMT -5
Patrionos, most Christians did not convert to Islam during the Ottomans. And if some did, you should accept it. That happens everywhere in the world. Whatever happened happened. It's now time to look to the future Well I don't have anything with Islam...to be honest I think that a Lebanese or a Turk kardash is much more debatable than a ...Latvian or an... Icelanderson... I neither have any problem with Turks specifically, I prefer to talk to a Turk than a ex-ottoman Balkanian(...)...Less complexed guys...but knowing history and talk about it isn't adhesion with the past...its just history and things that happened that can be forgiven but not forgotten... PS. And its not Patrionos...its Patrinos...and if you want to be more accurate Patrine in vocative.
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 30, 2009 16:13:08 GMT -5
Chalkedon, there is nothing for Turkish people to acknowledge? They didn't do anything wrong. They didn't kill people b/c they were of a different religion., unlike everywhre Europeans colonized.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 30, 2009 16:20:54 GMT -5
we obviously have different opinions. I know its not pleasant to think that someone's ancestors can be guilty of doing these actions. But history cannot be rewritten... If the germans can acknowledge what they did...so can the turks. I understand your opinion of why it happened....i just dont agree with it. Thats all..
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 30, 2009 16:47:26 GMT -5
Lets see, what did your Greek ancestors do? Slavery. Do people hold them accountable?? No.
There is nothing wrong with what the Ottomans did. And anyways, there are no Ottomans any more, thus no one can be held accountable.
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Jul 31, 2009 13:31:00 GMT -5
Thracian, I salute you. Armenians started it intentionally, killing Turkish civilians. The Ottoman Empire had to protect their citizen and take measures against those who attack the empire. Romans or Austro-Hungarian should do the same. So don't blame the turks today and stop that silly game chaps.
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 31, 2009 14:00:04 GMT -5
Ozkurt, actually, yes, historically 2 M Turks were killed by Armenians - check the Ottoman archives. Why do you say it is unfounded. Just b/c they are Christian like you??
Thanks Rhezus !
Armenians try to re-write history by false claims and cover up for what they did to the Turks. And now they try to play it like they are the victims. More Turks died than Armenians, which goes to show they cannot make their claims. This is why they avoid looking at the Ottoman archives.
They are people full of hate. I know in CA they have Armenian camps they send their children to brainwash them to hate Turks.
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Post by rusebg on Jul 31, 2009 14:15:55 GMT -5
I heard that one Armenian was drowned in a river by the lover of his wife who was Turk and then the world decided to call this a genocide. Is it true?
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 31, 2009 14:59:13 GMT -5
forget it Ruse...its a hopeless case. You will have a similar experience in a turkish bazaar if you ever go. They can sell you a rag thinking its a silk purse.. ;D unbelievable....
thracian....If you are referring to the ancient greek city states within greece, then yes...slavery was employed to the ppl of the city that lost. But it was their own ppl and not slavery as you would imagine. Besides...what can be worse than living the life as a free spartan ? i think you need to re-take history 101 in school
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
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Post by Rhezus on Aug 1, 2009 7:12:11 GMT -5
There you see, hate drives ppl crazy. I think most countries around the Balkans and Black Sea region can't stand the fact the Ottmans had an empire.. and they've been ruled for hundreds of years like that. I think there lies the problem even for Armenians, still today.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Aug 1, 2009 7:45:33 GMT -5
Rhezus, that is the most ignorant comment of yours. THe problem of the Armenians are not that Turks ruled them. By the way its amazing how you have only praise for Turkey and only hate to the country you call yours: Bulgaria. Do not let your islamic religion blur your visions and your nationality. I think there were killings of the Armenians made by the Turks. I think its disgusting. I think its time Turkey admits it. Its done a long time ago, the new generation is not responsible for this. Its just a historic fact.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Aug 1, 2009 9:05:22 GMT -5
Ottomans were at war with Muslims/Muslim countries too.
Thracian its easy for you to tell me check Ottoman archives, and how do you expect me to do that ?
if the complete Ottoman archives are completly open and so easy to check and if they are on the net plse direct me to how I can check them.
If you have hard evidence for your claim that Armenians killed 2 million Turks and that this is therefore a justification for killing of Armenians then I would like to see your evidence.
*show me when and where Armenians killed 2 million Turks.
*show how many historian accept that figure ? and that it was at the hands of Armenians?
I say its unfounded because I cant see any hard proof for it. I dont say its unfounded that many Turks died in that big war but to say up to 2 million at the hands of Armenians well thats something else.
Spirit of Tartary , what say you ? did Armenians kill 2 million Turks ?
if so when and where ?
Thracian you talk as if WW1 was a war between Turkey and Armenia.
Armenians did not represent all the peoples Turkey/Ottomans was at war with.
Thracian Turkey was at war on several fronts so in total of course more Turks died than Armenians but if you look at it from the percentage of Armenians that died in the context of the former Armenian population of the region then thats a different situation. Also the majority of those Armenians that died were non combatants.
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Post by rusebg on Aug 1, 2009 9:30:21 GMT -5
Three million. It is just the inbred shyness of Spirit and Thracian that prevents them to give the actual number. If a few more posts of theirs appear, one would start wondering how on earth there is a single Turk left and how the fvck he managed to survive this total massacre by Armenians.
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Rhezus
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DERZA STURIA TRAUS
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Post by Rhezus on Aug 1, 2009 13:15:27 GMT -5
There is always a reason if something starts happening. I don't beleive turks started killing armenians just like that. Don't portray the Ottomans so stupid, right. That's why I always have sympathy for them.. they don't cry, they don't blame anybody, they go on. And another thing, Turks simply have more balls than any other in that fvcking region. I like them just because very few do it here. Haha.. you try again! Ioan I have no fvcking religion, because I don't believe in such fairytales, you see. I told youbefore , I'm agnostic. Please, try to remeber that well!
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Aug 1, 2009 13:34:51 GMT -5
There is always a reason if something starts happening. I don't beleive turks started killing armenians just like that. Obviously not. They tried to keep their empire inact. However killing of so many people is not excusable, well except maybe for you. For me it isnt. So the reason is not that important here. I do not portray them as stupid. Yours is not sympathy. Its adoration. Its identification with them. They are the best rulers for you. They should rule Europa. You hate Bulgaria. Maybe you should really move to Turkey. I mean you have only praise for Turkey. I ve been in Turkey. I like it, I like the Turks too. But I prefer Bulgaria, because I identify with and love my country. Obviously you do not. Yes we all get they were superhumans in your eyes. Obviously you are blinded by your adoratrion because of your religion. I disagree. If we compare the states Greece, Croatia, Slovenia all did much better because now they are wealthier. Turkey is a country I like, but its definately not as developed as those 3. And there were no socialism in Turkey. It should ve been wealthier. I like Turkey. The people are very positive and warm. So you do not have to blindly adore them. Ok. I do not think thats true. Otherwise you d probably like your state better.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Aug 1, 2009 15:31:04 GMT -5
But that doesn't mean they started killing Armenians just for fun. Any empire should react if someone tries to make attempts to attack it. Armenians thought they had balls to do so, but obviously this was a great illusion. So, take the consequenses.. Ok, may be or may be not. Haha.. Ioanson, that's real BS. I just see things different than you do. We do not need to have same oppinion, don't you think?! Thanks God, Europe feeds GR for 30 years now.. and poor Greeks, they still can't make it on its own! Slovenia and Croatia were never communist states, on the contrary they have been always, always very west orientated (compaired to Serbia or Makedonia and not to mention Bulgaria)! Don't count these two as balkan countries, because they are not. So still, Turkey remains the strongest state on the balkans. Haha, again!.. The fact I don't like religions, (or the way things go in BG), doesn't mean I don't like the lovely nature of my country. You know I praise Thracia and anyhing indigenius to my ancient lands. But I really don't like religions. I dislike the orthodox, jewish, muslim or catholic. They are made up, antagonistic war and hate creators. So remember that well , I'm agnostic.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Aug 2, 2009 6:55:31 GMT -5
I agree.
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