MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 6, 2009 23:07:16 GMT -5
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Post by radovic on Aug 7, 2009 1:28:34 GMT -5
Vatu Varu island is the most expensive ever at $75 million. David Coperfields private archipelago in the Bahamas cost $50 million. ^ The above are more attractive then Brijuni. Aristotle Onassis's Skorpios Island is the worlds most valuable island assessed at $200 million. ^ The Briuni aren't spectacular enought compared to other islands for them to be worth that much more. I'm pretty sure they are more valuable then Copperfields or the first one I mentioned and at most might reach some $300 million since Tito was their, their are some buildings on them. Anyways. All but two of the islands are either part of a national park or presidential property. I doubt countries sell presidential property or even national parks. If they are assessed at that high a price, I'm pretty sure the value would crash once they went on sale. It reminds me a few years ago I read about how the huge Stanley Park in Vancouver was assesed as being worth $200 billion dollars because it was barred from development. Samething with the imperial palace in Tokyo whose value at one time during the 80s Japanese proeprty buble was assesed at a trillion dollars. I don't think anyone would pay $800 million to 1.2 billion for the isles. I'm pretty sure Croatian mnisters aren't retarded and wouldn't consider this. And the reader with the comment is an idiot. Slovenia could purchase as many Croat isles as it want's they'd still be part of Croatian waters/
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tyson
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Post by tyson on Aug 7, 2009 2:34:26 GMT -5
fukkin croatian government are fukked. they want to sell those beautiful untouched nature islands?..... that should be treason!!!
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Post by radovic on Aug 7, 2009 9:40:09 GMT -5
fukkin croatian government are fukked. they want to sell those beautiful untouched nature islands?..... that should be treason!!! I searched it. It's a lie from the Slovenian Dnevnik newspaper.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 7, 2009 10:53:56 GMT -5
Well the Economy is in a pinch. They have some re-financing to do to get rid of that debt. And it may take a decade before they're out of it.
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Post by Medimurje on Aug 7, 2009 19:46:44 GMT -5
If it takes a decade it will be ok. The way some of the other western nations have borrowed money will take 5+ decades to get things under control.
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Trazi Vise
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Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 7, 2009 20:37:38 GMT -5
They would sell their own mother's for a little $$$. Perhaps they should look to old customs and also start selling the people again to foreign lands for some good $$$, and in the end they STILL would end up with NIL. Stupid people.
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tyson
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Post by tyson on Aug 8, 2009 2:28:22 GMT -5
what the croatian government needs to do is learn not to borrow money. the government just needs to tighten its belt on borrowing, and the peoples need to understand and accept it. then and only then will we ever get out of debt.
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Trazi Vise
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Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 8, 2009 22:09:50 GMT -5
lol makes sense, but you can't change that culture quickly.
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Post by radovic on Aug 9, 2009 11:25:22 GMT -5
what the croatian government needs to do is learn not to borrow money. the government just needs to tighten its belt on borrowing, and the peoples need to understand and accept it. then and only then will we ever get out of debt. Easier said then done. Especially since Croatia's foreign debt is close to 100% of GDP (some sya it has already in essence surpassed this amount). The Croatian government seems like the Serbian government. Unwilling to save money in good times and bad. In Serbia according to one estimate as 1/4th of the budget is going to bureucracy, when only a half of this amount is needed. This combined with other wastes of money (i.e. unilateral implementation of EU regulations, non-public government bidding contracts, intentional non-collection of at least 2 billion in taxes) the government wouldn't need to be borrowing money (raising the debt by 50% to around 35% of GDP). Getting to the topic of Croatia. I'm not aware of such things in Croatia but given how fast Croatia's debt as risen since Tudjman's death I'm pretty sure if the govenrment wasn't criminally incompetent or corrupt they could find more then enough cash to fill up holes in the budget and reduce debt. I've noticed that in Eastern Europe the more a government is desperate to join the EU the more of a mess it names (the mantra, "Once we join everything will be better.") Anyways. According to the Independent in the UK the price is 1.2 billion for the big island, 2.5 billion for all of them.
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Post by superstar on Aug 9, 2009 12:29:26 GMT -5
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Post by radovic on Aug 9, 2009 17:42:14 GMT -5
Foolish comparison. The above have a developed economy and larger populations and in recent years their proportion of GDP as part of GDP has been increasing. Not only that but these countries tend to hold more debt then they owe, soemthing that is not the case of Croatia. They also tend to be members of groups like the Club of Rome, Club of London, Club of Paris, on thr boards of WB and IMF and could easily forgive it's debts (these are the main international loan giving instiutions to governments). At that they have diversified and more developed economies then Croatia <-- who is increasingly becoming dependant on one industry. Also. The information is out of dates. This year Croatia's debt has surpassed GDP. macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/5913/46/Croatia’s foreign debt exceeds GDP Monday, 09 March 2009 According to the latest official data posted by the Croatian National Bank (CNB), Croatia’s foreign debt has reached a concerning level of nearly 90 percent of GDP. However, according to preliminary data, already at the start of January, total foreign debt exceeded the value of last year’s GDP, which should be very alarming. The Central Bureau of Statistics estimates that Croatia’s GDP last year amounted to HRK 299 billion or roughly EUR 39 billion, while CNB estimates that foreign debt reached EUR 39.1 billion at the end of 2008. However, according to the EU’s methodology, including grey economy in the GDP, the foreign debt amounted to “only” 88 percent of GDP (EUR 45bn). //03.09.09 MiNa
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Trazi Vise
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Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 9, 2009 20:54:50 GMT -5
How do you get rid of debt when you inherit debt time and time again? It's really not rocket science.
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gavrilo
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Vi ste svi banane
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Post by gavrilo on Aug 9, 2009 22:42:45 GMT -5
croatia has probably the nicest highways in europe. how do you think that was funded? Through debt. Now they have to sell those beautiful islands. And god knows what is going to be built there once the buyer takes it.
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Post by superstar on Aug 10, 2009 14:30:43 GMT -5
The upside of Croatia's high External Debt is they built good infastructure and the quality of life for it's citizens is better then the vast majority of countries with low external debt... The average Chinese, Russian and Indian citizens live like shit.
I'll believe Croatia sells the Brijuni Islands when I see it happen.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 10, 2009 22:30:41 GMT -5
Nay, the islands aren't being sold. The only probable reason that the EU hasn't accepted Croatia is because of our debt. That's why they're letting Slovenia talk trash for now. The next government should tell the EU to fuck off and just stay neutral on everything (Like Switzerland).
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Post by radovic on Aug 10, 2009 23:20:52 GMT -5
The upside of Croatia's high External Debt is they built good infastructure and the quality of life for it's citizens is better then the vast majority of countries with low external debt... The average Chinese, Russian and Indian citizens live like s**t. I'll believe Croatia sells the Brijuni Islands when I see it happen. Not a very good argument. How exactly would one expect Indians and Chinese to live better then Croats. When their wages are at best 1/5th of Croatia's, their populations are extremely concentrated in certain areas and 70% of the populace is rural. The Russia comparison doesn't hold water. With the exception of the south and low densit rural areas, most areas of Russia have the same standard living as Croatia or higher. -- Infrastrucutre argument is rather flawed. The private sector could easily build those roads. Especially along the coast and Corridor X in Croatia. The only difference being that the loans is more desirable to people since they'll pay less to use them since the government and the loans will subsidise lower price. Never mind in the cost run through taxes and paying back loans it costs more. -- Standard of living doesn't have to do with the amount of debt a country hold. It has more to do with the development of the economy. The reason it's high in most developed countries is because they used loans for their development and it's mostly linked to post-WWII era loans America granted to Europe. (Not just for reconstruction but for control, theirs an interesting part in the I.O.U.S.A. where it's mentioned that the French and UK decisions to end their actions during the Suez crisis was because America who at that time held nearly all their foreign debt threatened to bloc new loans if they did not give in to America's intersts).
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Post by radovic on Aug 10, 2009 23:32:16 GMT -5
Nay, the islands aren't being sold. The only probable reason that the EU hasn't accepted Croatia is because of our debt. That's why they're letting Slovenia talk trash for now. The next government should tell the EU to f**k off and just stay neutral on everything (Like Switzerland). They're not going to do that. These governments are too lazy and incompetent and all they do is say "EU this, EU that. Once we give in to the EU everything will be better." They'll make the situation worst. A perfect example is the most pro-EU forces in Europe, Ceda "Narkoman" Jovanovic. While he was a minsiter in 2001 and 2002 (right after Slobo fell)he said that Serbia spent only 17 euros per capita on ag subsidies and that we should immediately increase this amount to 400 euros to be in line with EU spending (ignoring the fact that the amount spent is only a quarter of this amount). Here's him claiming this crap in 2003: www.arhiva.serbia.sr.gov.yu/news/2003-09/30/331218.html. These idiots, which Croatia also has plenty off, say spend, spend, loans, laons, debt, debt -- EU will fix it all. Never midn that the EU protects its farmers, their dumping their exceee foods on our markets, the EU subsidies don't help farmers but an agro-industrial complex nations in the Balkan lack and that if they wanted cash they'd look at markets needing food like Arab states. If Serbia listened to this idiot our debt would have reached close to the 80% mark. Given how fast Croatia's debt has risen I'm pretty sure Croatian politicians pushed many criminal ideas that combined had the same effect/
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Aug 11, 2009 0:03:17 GMT -5
i wonder what affect eu ascension will have on the relative prices and the cost of visiting croatia? Croatia is much cheaper, and probably just as pretty as spain or italy.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 11, 2009 0:17:26 GMT -5
Man fuck the EU. The politicians need to grow a set or take them out of their purses. They may live large, but from what I've seen down there, its the common people Middle Class and Lower, that get affected by their spending. Why the hell did Sanader need a limo that cost 1.7M Euros? Instead of speding that shit on national interests? (Such as fixing the Judicial System, where in a nation of 4.6 Million people, 1.3 Million court cases are yet to be resolved.) What a fucking tool.
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