Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 19, 2009 10:27:36 GMT -5
Circa 2004, I made a mock confederation piece on paper, printed and signed; as a discussion point/joke with a Bosnjak "friend" of mine. I would have been the minister for confederation on the Croatian side and he for the Bosnian one. It would have been voted on by citizens of BOTH countries, with a 50% majority needed for it to go through.
My reasons for wanting this were simple. It was political, passionate, an emotional though that we could bring the two countries together for the better of everyone. It however would not have solved the problems we still see today in both countries.
Would such a proposal work? As I said it would be voted in by the majority; still having a free separate constitution in both countries; but at least working together on major issues.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Aug 19, 2009 11:41:23 GMT -5
I don't think that's really a good idea, especially so fresh out of the Yugoslav Civil Wars. Also, you have to look at the factor that Bosniaks don't really want to be a smaller minority.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 19, 2009 11:48:58 GMT -5
^ Well I did think that I was ahead of my time and the time of the place. It was just a though. Even the Bosnjak was for it, of course as "equal" partners. It wouldn't be ruling them as such as both parties would vote for it as a partnership; like a marriage which should be equal.
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Post by soko on Aug 19, 2009 12:03:04 GMT -5
A Croatian-Bosnian confederation would only work if those parts of the RS where Serbs actually made up the relative majority of the population[before the war] were given to Serbia, in the end that would be, you would have a Bosniak-Croat confederate state.
Anyways, if the former Yugoslav Republics were ever run by anti-nationalists, something I do not see happening in todays political climate, or in the foreseeable future. It is quite possible that there would be a Yugoslav confederation, minus Slovenia and most of Kosovo. It would make sense economically, culturally academically. And it would make it possible to have a BiH without any form of ethnic regions...
But considering that the nationalists will be in power, seemingly forever, this is impossible.
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 19, 2009 12:10:50 GMT -5
There's just no need for it.
And if BiH can't function normally, you think such a confederation will? It would make things only worse.
Plus, we'll already be in a confederation... in the EU. There won't be borders (like the ones today mean anything) so there's really no need for it.
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Post by soko on Aug 19, 2009 12:19:08 GMT -5
Whether or not it will work has to do with if nationalism is the norm, or if it is the minority. Currently both an united BiH and any form of confederate state are unrealistic, since nationalism is mainstream in society..
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 19, 2009 12:22:01 GMT -5
It depends on your meaning of unified.
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Post by soko on Aug 19, 2009 12:26:29 GMT -5
It depends on your meaning of unified. Unified in the sense it was during the early 80ties.....
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 19, 2009 12:27:55 GMT -5
You mean controlled by Belgrade? Sure, it's impossible.
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Post by soko on Aug 19, 2009 12:36:04 GMT -5
You mean controlled by Belgrade? Sure, it's impossible. I was talking about the attitudes within the population toward each other, and such factors as there being a secular society, the population being intermixed, tolerant (at least in public), as well as no ethnic separation of any kind, whether it be administrative regions or schools, and intermarriages being something normal. As well as chauvinism based on nationality.etc being illigal... Thats the only way a unifed BiH could work.... Not what the capitol city of that state was....
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 19, 2009 23:14:03 GMT -5
Interesting points soko, faz don't you think it would be much better first to integrate with your closest neighbour and ally first then to join the EU 50 years before they are ready for it unprepared???
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 20, 2009 6:59:50 GMT -5
Interesting points soko, faz don't you think it would be much better first to integrate with your closest neighbour and ally first then to join the EU 50 years before they are ready for it unprepared??? No because I don't really see what has Bosnia as a whole to gain out of it. I can see what has Croatia to gain out of it, (all Croats in one country, no more a kifla shape being the 2 most important ones) but not Bosnia. As I'm always open to discussions, I'd like to be enlightened.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 20, 2009 10:51:00 GMT -5
You must be blind to think that Bosnia will not gain anything with this (they may gain more than Croatia; more investment by Croatian and foreign firms to build the place better; I am NOT talking about which ethnicity will benefit more as you speak of; that is your only fear; nothing to do with the whole reason of this post. Again it is NOT about making one country; both will still exist.
Do you think Bosnia will gain something by somehow making it to the "finals" of the EU....and it will be the finals stage of the EU once Bosnia is finally prepared and they want them. That will be the day the EU will cease, yes CEASE to exist.
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 20, 2009 12:10:12 GMT -5
You must be blind to think that Bosnia will not gain anything with this (they may gain more than Croatia; more investment by Croatian and foreign firms to build the place better; I am NOT talking about which ethnicity will benefit more as you speak of; that is your only fear; nothing to do with the whole reason of this post. Again it is NOT about making one country; both will still exist. Do you think Bosnia will gain something by somehow making it to the "finals" of the EU....and it will be the finals stage of the EU once Bosnia is finally prepared and they want them. That will be the day the EU will cease, yes CEASE to exist. Yeah I'm sure if Bosnia entered a confederation with Croatia suddenly all world's biggest companies would jump in Bosnia. It obviously has a lot to do with ethnicities, why don't you suggest an union with Slovenia, Serbia or Montenegro? Bosnia will obviously gain from the EU, in terms of human rights, free moving between states, money from the EU etc. You are one of the big list of people living outside Europe who hate the EU only because they don't live here, so such a comment to me is rather silly.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 20, 2009 21:04:02 GMT -5
lol why join Slovenia, Serbia i.t.d...any idiot can see the connection we have always had with Bosnia, but clearly you cannot. Enough said about that.
The EU will run out of money by the time they will supposedly give Bosnia money and at that time they will cease to function the way it was idealy meant to.
I lived outside of Europe for now, because of family reasons in Australia, but have dual citizenship. I also own land and business in Europe; which gives me voting rights in any sense for Croatia and the like. In a perfect EU makeup, I would be the one benefiting the most from it. However I am still against it and always will be; because I am looking at the bigger picture and NOT just for my own ass.
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 21, 2009 8:49:34 GMT -5
Rather interesting.
First you say how ethnicities supposedly don't have anything to do with this.
But than you say that you want an union with Bosnia and not others because your ethnicity has always had connections to Bosnia.
So I really don't know what to think.
The rest is as I said usual anti-EU blabbering from people not living here.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 22, 2009 2:05:46 GMT -5
Pa citaj SVE prije. It is not only because of the ethnic connection.
Anti EU blabber, funny really the way you say it. Call a mate of mine; Marjan Bosnjak (and also speak to his brother Tomislav who has worked in Aus and Europe for the last 40 years in consul matters) who took his whole family back to ZG bout 5 years ago. You can also listen to him on web streams, and listen to him and his "anti-blabbering" about the EU. Yes someone who lives there; and will stay there until the end. Then you can comment. AND if it wasn't for such above mentioned people along with other's; we would not have a free Bosnia and Croatia in this day; but then again I am not exactly sure that's what the majority here want. They somehow yearn for a lost Yugoslavia.
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