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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 20, 2009 21:18:04 GMT -5
A very good documentary. Although labeled as a subset of "Fascism", started by Mussolini, in fact Nazism as an ideology has far more in common with the entity it considered itself an enemy of: Communism.
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Post by epiroti on Aug 28, 2009 8:14:44 GMT -5
Damn, this genocidal aspect of Marx's views is freaking twisted man... Hard to believe he could have written something like that.
I thought his whole philosophy preached equality. I can't believe Nietzsche has been made to look like a monster - when all he preached was individual improvement - and Marx, his philosophical opponent, believed that genocide is reasonable.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 28, 2009 9:36:25 GMT -5
Damn, this genocidal aspect of Marx's views is freaking twisted man... Hard to believe he could have written something like that. I thought his whole philosophy preached equality. I can't believe Nietzsche has been made to look like a monster - when all he preached was individual improvement - and Marx, his philosophical opponent, believed that genocide is reasonable. x2 Nietzsche's bad reputation stems from Nazis distorting his philosophy and ideas and giving it a racial profile ... when really his untermenschen were simply individuals who go against the stream and do not conform, bending the surrounding in accordance with their own rules. Marxism = Nazism ... an intriguing connection. They have certainly both plagued humanity.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Aug 28, 2009 9:49:22 GMT -5
Marxism-Leninism is all about jewish corba. As for Hitler he's jews as well too. Hitler's father did sex with his housekeeper lady. After that she immediately becomes pregnant with baby named Hitler. When Hitler grown he disappointed and being so hateful to his father for that he not married with that housekeeper lady that was Hitler's Mother. This was the main reason that Hitler tried to kill all jewsh people and rule the world during ww2.
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Post by epiroti on Aug 28, 2009 10:09:27 GMT -5
Mysia, I hope the police never raid your house. Who knows what sort of things they might find there. Tell me, do you collect things?
These authoritarian systems, especially nazism and soviet marxism, are better to be analysed from a leadership-psychology point of view rather than the philosphy they claim to represent. The leader's preferences and expectations are far more defining in its method and mentalitie than the actual philosophy. What one claims to represent is far less telling than the actions he takes, the verdicts he passes on, the associates he choses, etc.
Nationa socialism my ass - Hitler never cared about the german people; even if he liked to believe that. Even if he thought he did, his true motives were pathological as hell.
My point is, the method used to compare these systems should be carefully contemplated upon.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Aug 28, 2009 10:31:59 GMT -5
Mysia, I hope the police never raid your house. Who knows what sort of things they might find there. Tell me, do you collect things? I'm student and not have house yet. Police are my best friends and they salute me every time. As for Marx he firstly was a bible scholar and bible expert as well. Marx said that capitalism is transition system before going to communism. You can't have both socialism and capitalism same time. Communism means opportunism so Let the Capitalism and American DOLLAR Rule First.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 6, 2009 16:21:35 GMT -5
I dont think Nietzsche has such a bad reputation. His works are discussed in nearly every college philosophy class. The interpretation made of him by the Nazis is held mostly as a joke today.
By contrast, who actually reads Karl Marx anymore? Besides idiot youths.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 6, 2009 20:26:04 GMT -5
"A very good documentary. Although labeled as a subset of "Fascism", started by Mussolini, in fact Nazism as an ideology has far more in common with the entity it considered itself an enemy of: Communism."
100% agree, good youtube clip.
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Post by leshte on Oct 6, 2009 20:45:21 GMT -5
Depends what class you take. I can tell you for example that when I was an undergrad they made us read Karl Marx in a history class. Just because the theory makes no sense does not mean that idiot kids read it. It is usually studied to point out why the whole theory is flawed. Well in my opinion the theory of communism and the whole system is flawed because from the beginning it gives the human nature way too much credit. As long as there are human beings in this world there will never be equality. There will always be the charlatans, the mass murder, the thief, the lazy ass, the envious, the greedy, the dishonest no matter what system you theorize. Because greed, envy, lie, desire, urge for power are all traits of human nature equality and hence communism is never achievable. Talking about communism isn't it funny that the first leaders weren't actually poor or working class.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 6, 2009 20:55:26 GMT -5
Im not talking about reading him under his proper historical context. That is necessary to understand the past 150 years. Im talking about reading him as if he offers any real information or as if he provides any good ideas.
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Post by Red Brigade on Oct 7, 2009 7:26:00 GMT -5
C-grade propaganda by uneducated clowns. Marx simply said that violence is an essential part of any class society and anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot.
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Post by epiroti on Oct 7, 2009 10:28:59 GMT -5
I dont think Nietzsche has such a bad reputation. His works are discussed in nearly every college philosophy class. The interpretation made of him by the Nazis is held mostly as a joke today. I have mostly discussed Nietzsche with students who have read philosophy in high school. Mainly english and german students. And I was dissappointed to see the lack of attention that he got in their curriculum. The association of his ideas with nazi propaganda was certainly a pattern in their beliefs. Of course, in college/university it must be different. I haven't read much on Marxism, except the Communist Manifesto. The interpretation of history in it sounds certainly biased. On the individual level, I think it is flawed. Nietzsche is the opposite - in focus of his work I mean. He deals with the individual. I can hardly see why he is considered as a political philosopher. His later work was focused on the few, and wasn't really concerned with the rest of society or political systems.
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Post by leshte on Oct 7, 2009 11:34:05 GMT -5
Violence is part of human nature. No need to talk about class societies or any grand social schemes. As long as there's humans there will be violence. The term class society he uses is used by him for propaganda purposes just so that he could incorporate and defend communism as his thesis.
He also fails to see that the achievement of a classless society is utopic and that communism certainly is not a classless society. Again he failed to see that human nature and equality cannot coexist.
Manchester was about the only city which could be called capitalistic when Marx was writing about communism. The bulk of his writings are based on assumptions; and to make matters worse they were based on wrong assumptions.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 7, 2009 13:48:06 GMT -5
The men talking are professors. The first one, the British, is from Cambridge.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 8, 2009 8:13:05 GMT -5
Basically these type are killers no matter what you want to call their ideologies.You can study Hitler and some of the other pos's till the end of days.... it ain't gonna change anything..
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Post by leshte on Oct 8, 2009 11:36:53 GMT -5
Well in the case of Hitler you are right. In the case of Marx he is the ideologue (He was not a dictator of any country). Then you had demagogues, profiteers and mass murderers who "embraced" his ideology as an excuse to rule others through fear and terror. I am talking about Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Enver Hoxha, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong Il etc etc. I guess you can say Marx offered them the perfect lie so that they could kill and oppress the same people they were claiming to free.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 9, 2009 15:59:46 GMT -5
Qute right and I agree, Marx ideas about communism were very well planned and probably he worked on someone's "order", since he was a mason. Lenin and Trotskiy were later called to the US (by the jew masons) and get the money, needed to make the revolution in Russia happen. Have a look who actually Karl Marx was and his real neames (parenthetically) :
Heinrich Karl Marx (Moses Mordecai Marx Levy, 1818-83) was born of wealthy parents (his father was a lawyer), and much of his personal life has never been revealed. Marx wrote that he wanted to avenge himself "against the One who rules above." He joined the Satanist Church run by Joana Southcott, who was said to be in contact with the demon Shiloh. His early writings mentioned the name "Oulanem," which was a ritualistic name for Satan. A friend of Marx wrote in 1841, that "Marx calls the Christian religion one of the most immoral of religions." His published attacks against the German government caused him to be ejected from the country. As we have seen, the aim of secular education was to destroy both Christianity and Judaism. After 1848, Karl Marx, a 32nd degree Grand Orient Mason (Miller, Occult Theocracy, p.270, 726), carried on the Frankist Reform's subversive work. Marx was profoundly anti-religious and, in fact, he was against all religions. He was also famous for having said, "Religion is 'the opiate of the people"
And by the way, who was Lenin:
Nikolai Lenin (Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, 1870-1924) was student of Marx, who was out for revenge, after his older brother, Alexander, was hung in 1887, along with four comrades, for conspiring to assassinate Czar Alexander II, the grandfather of Nicholas II. And the so called Lenin was also jewish... what a coincidence.
During his teenage years, he admired Mikhail Bakunin (1814-1876), a follower of Weishaupt's principles, and a Satanist, who was the driving force behind the initial effort to organize Communism. In 1887, Lenin entered Kazan University, and in 1889, he became a Mason, and soon began advocating the philosophies of Marx. He said: "We must combat religion. This is the ABC's of all materialism and consequently of Marxism."
Two systems(capitalist & communist), working for one purpose - the kapital and the power should be controlled by and concentrated to certain people. The Russian tzar was preventing that and "revolution" was needed to get him out of the way. Make your own conclusions, about communism and whose ideas lie behind it, actually.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Oct 9, 2009 16:42:16 GMT -5
Because Karl Marx know very well the bible he wrote the capital.
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