Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 13, 2009 13:15:08 GMT -5
Vasili you forgot Italians...so Americanos would be the 4th time... If Albanians want to play once more the cirak of a big power(America) in the area, let them try...maybe Albos will start to be converted into Protestantism, Mormonism and Evaggelism... I think Mendor make the start... ;D
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 13, 2009 13:18:03 GMT -5
Thats not the first time, Faik Bey Konica wanted to convert Albanian Orthodox Christians to Protestant Christianity in the early 1900s. It would not be bad for Albanian Christians to become Protestant. A much better form of Christianity. Promotes good German work ethic.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 13, 2009 13:22:25 GMT -5
Protestantism is the most conservative, racist, puritanic form of christianity...check the video I've quoted in the other thread... Btw, what damari stands for...quarry???...albanian quarry...?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 13, 2009 14:46:01 GMT -5
Arnavut damar = Albanian veins.
Its an expression a Turkish friend of mine says that they use in Turkey to describe a stubborn, thick-headed, violent and/or irrational person.
If someone is very stubborn, he has "Albanian veins".
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 13, 2009 19:13:06 GMT -5
The beauty of Protestantism is that there is no central power. Different churches can be how they want to be and so they do not have an Archpatriarch or a Pope to tell them what to do. That means a state can more easily manipulate them if it wants to.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 14, 2009 10:52:43 GMT -5
In Orthodoxy there isn't any central powerful center like they have in Catholicism, with the known phainomena, like papal infallibility...
Church of Polis is first among equals and in no way the Patriarch has status like Pope's. He lives almost like a monk, not like a celebrity or head of a monarchic state like Pope...
The sick phainomena, with the hundreds of deceitful heresies(especially in US), extremism and interference in the state's policy(see Bush) are more intense in US, which is not neither Catholic nor Orthodox state.
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Post by insomniac on Sept 14, 2009 15:19:04 GMT -5
Albania in my mind will always be a agnostic country. With strong traditional links.
I can't fanthom our country being religious. Just like Canada is multicultural country, Albania is religiously multicultural. But ethnically homogeneous.
That's fine with me. There are no "turkish brothers" just allies.
Today, you'll find any religion in Albania. Plenty of protestant, baptist and evangelists, orthodox and catholic and muslims.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 14, 2009 22:06:46 GMT -5
Turks are cultural brothers with majority of Albanians. Historically we both were one group within the Osmalilik.
I respect that as an Orthodox Christian you dont like this... but reality is reality.
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Post by insomniac on Sept 14, 2009 22:24:30 GMT -5
I don't know about majority. A lot of Muslims in Albania are just "nominally muslims". Same goes to christians, they are only "nominally". Very few actually do practice religion and most people are into materialism. You might want to be culturally brothers with Turks but please don't include all of us in the same category. I only respect them as allies and friends. And people who feel the same as me include a significant portion of the population.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 14, 2009 22:32:17 GMT -5
You are right, Im not including all... however, majority of Muslim Albanians would agree with me. In fact, I used to think the opposite and it was Albs I met in Tirana who would argue otherwise and tell me I was wrong. Anyway, I wont go any further in this. Its an empty discussion...
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Post by insomniac on Sept 14, 2009 23:07:31 GMT -5
You are right, Im not including all... however, majority of Muslim Albanians would agree with me. In fact, I used to think the opposite and it was Albs I met in Tirana who would argue otherwise and tell me I was wrong. Anyway, I wont go any further in this. Its an empty discussion... Actually, it's a very interesting subject. And you should go further with this. Because you always bring it up in a subtle manner. You used to think only Albs of Tirana used to think like that. But times are changing. The reality is that we should not disturb the religious balance. That has been achieved and maintained over hundreds of years of coexistance. And all these islamic(arab), protestant and evangelist crap is disturbing that balance. Although, i'm not very worried because Albania has rock solid foundations. In my opinion, our society needs to be more aware of foreigners entering our territory. Opening up mosques and churches like mashrooms and taking advantage of poor and desparate communities. You know what i'm trying to say? Otherwise the gap between christian/muslim albs will widen. Each will feel marginalized and that's how conflict arise in the future. I know for a fact that's not an immediate danger to Albania. But it is a possibility. Let's keep these wackos out of our country from taking advantage of people. Let them run their own religious states. We are not Greece, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia... etc
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Sept 14, 2009 23:41:10 GMT -5
Nominally or not the truth is Albania is majority Muslim & is seen as Muslim & will easily find it's closest allies in other Muslim countries. So long as you are majority Muslims nobody in Europe is going to reciprocate any genuine friendships with yous so you may as well go Islam & Turkey all the way because it will work for you better than any other option. I mean the Bosniaks are more than willing to svck your cocks as Islamic brothers. You see it all the time on these boards & then the Albanians are like whatever we are not really religious.
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Post by insomniac on Sept 15, 2009 0:45:22 GMT -5
That is not true. Western countries have been the biggest supporters of Albanian cause. Indeed they have been the catalyst for Kosovo's independence. Albania joining NATO and on the way to EU membership.
Of course, you would want us to look east. Because you are a Serb, your life mission has been to portray Albanian as some sort of muslim fanatics.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Sept 15, 2009 2:16:45 GMT -5
Well Serbs definitely view Albanians as Muslims but not necessarily as fanatics. You certainly aren't as bad as the Bosniaks when it comes to Islamic extremism. I think most Serbs do actually know that Albanians are not fanatics & that a considerable portion of Albanians are actually Christian. Serbs are generally aware of this so it's fair to say it is sometimes used as a political tool. Then again you do see posts from Serbs here I recall Novi recently as an example genuinely concerned that Islamic extremism will bread in Kosovo. My FYROMian friend just drove through Preseva valley & he said he couldn't believe how many mosques he saw there. Regardless of being actual fanatics or not though Islam is viewed very negatively by Serbs just in general. Religion influences culture & Serbs see this influence amongst Muslim Balkanites. No matter how much Albanians want to deny its place in ethnic identity it undeniably plays a role in culture, attitudes & historical interpretation etc which is also completely contradictory to Serbian culture & attitudes. It makes our blood boil when we hear Muslim slavs using Arabic words, raising the Turkish flag, chanting from the mosque in a nearby village or even in the village etc not forgetting that they once shared our identity. For what I would want, well it would make me feel much better if Albanians converted back to Christianity.
As for your talk of Western countries supporting the Albanian cause, well this is just politics. It's got nothing to do with genuine long lasting empathy as you might want to believe. There was a time after WW1 the Serbian flag was raised in Washington, our royalists were great Western allies but it doesn't mean jack sh!t now. Serbs have genuine friends on the ground in the slavic & Orthodox world. While some countries governments were recognising Kosovo's independence you had the citizens of those countries go out and protest & bring out banners at soccer games in support of Serbia & stuff like that. There is a massive difference between politics & genuine friendships & alliances. Even though Serbs & FYROMians don't share a political agenda on the ground nobody cares & Serbs & FYROMians are getting married every day. Even Greeks & FYROMians are getting married all the time. I'm going to one such wedding in a month. Albanians aren't going to have that with anyone except Muslims.
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Post by insomniac on Sept 15, 2009 2:41:02 GMT -5
What you said does not portray Serbs in a positive light. Not surprising, you guys got bombed in the first place. And today your application to join EU has been frozen by the Dutch. Basically what you are saying is that you guys are bigots by default. Bigotry is not to be praised. My dislike against Islam is not a dislike against the religion as a whole. Unlike you. I only dislike that radicalized portion of it (those arab scums coming to Albania). I respect the will of people to hold different views in matters of religion in life. Each to his own. I don't like the fact that many Mosques are getting build because that gives the impression of a highly religious society. They wouldn't dislike Serbs any less. Or you just assume that it's going to be orthodox solidarity? I don't think so. Us christian Albanians are very well aware of the issues in the Balkans. If anything we are more educated and aware. Our dislike is going to be even stronger. That's a pretty stupid narrow-minded statement. I don't knwo if you just said it just to get a rise out of me. Or maybe you are just another misguided Serb. Whichever, you are wrong. Albanians [christians and muslim] have been mixing with each other since forever. There is not one single family that is not mixed. Which means there is no clear religious lines. Not only that but Greek-Albanian marriages are also common. They are not spoken about because of the animosity that exists between our peoples. But they do occur significantly. Montenegrin-Albanian are pretty common. Even Croat-Albanian (Agim Ceku, and Ademi having wifes and kids from there). Plenty of other cases as well. Because of globalization, it's not only limited to neighboring Balkan countries. But i've heard cases of many many british-albanian, canadian-albanian, swedish, german, italian,,, intermarriages... etc. To answer your rhetoric statement, NO it's not a muslim-only rule. Nice try though.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 15, 2009 6:17:50 GMT -5
Arsenije, talking sincerely to a hateful slut like insomniac is a waste of time.
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Post by macmako on Sept 15, 2009 7:27:49 GMT -5
Absolutely wrong!
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Post by macmako on Sept 15, 2009 7:29:40 GMT -5
Absolutely wrong!
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 15, 2009 8:59:52 GMT -5
Yup, times are changing. Today a Turkish TV show is one of the most popular shows in Kosova and restaurants and businesses in Tirana and Durres are bein named after holiday spots in that country. Just recently a Turkish television host had a presentation in Albania with over 5000 people showing up.
Times are in fact changing, we are making up lost time. The isolation and propaganda of Hoxha is over, now we can see people as they truly should be seen, not behind myths and historical legends, but reality.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 15, 2009 9:20:38 GMT -5
Allah akbar....Allah bless Arnavudlik...
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