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Post by Kassandros on Sept 17, 2009 18:17:08 GMT -5
The EU is not complete yet.. but there is a chance that it will become like the US in the future. Don't be so quick to dismiss it.. I think there are very influential people working towards that goal.. And a union like the US takes a while to develop.. And just like in the US, the big states have the most leverage power - i.e. California, NY, Texas etc.. the same thing follows suit in the EU... that's a normal thing for federal states. There's are reason why the states that make up the US decided to give up their sovereignty and join together.. so why is it crazy to suggest that Europe can't do the same?.. but yes, at this point, it is not a country, although there are political scientists who argue that it is (I don't agree... although it does have certain aspects of a federal state, but it lacks other important ones). As far as wealth in monetary terms means.. it doesn't mean everything. From what I've seen, I honestly think life in some parts of Europe is better than here (by here, I mean Canada, where I was born and raised).. and definitely better than the US. As far as why GDP is not necessarily the best indicator of quality of life, I'll throw some examples out there: -if crimes go up, GDP goes up. Why? Because people would be encouraged to spend money on things like - handguns (in the states where it's legal), alarm systems, etc. -when a natural disaster happens - e.g. an earthquake, GDP goes up. Why? Because the reconstruction after is a huge contributor to the economy. -People work less in the Mediterranean countries (it's warmer, they like to have fun!), and have way more holidays than in North America.. that's why their economies are a bit smaller. But more leisure is seen as a positive factor of quality of life. Working all the time like in the states isn't so great is it? -in certain countries, the income gap is huge. e.g. in the US.. I believe 1/3 of the population was under the poverty line in 1990 (if I recall the stat correctly).. why is their economy so big then? Because the rich are rich enough to pull up the average income up. But let's face it, for most of them, life is pretty hard. In the EU, incomes are more balanced. Those are just a few examples of how GDP can distort the reality of quality of lives.. so it is NOT the perfect measure. In order for America to become as centralized as it is today it had to suffer a devastating 5 year civil war in which 600,000 of its people were killed and entire portion of its territory destroyed to near entirety. In order for American federalists to win the state aspect of the nation were completely eradicated. The EU will never be anything more than a paper confederacy until it can suffer a similar revolution. Not to mention American states have far more in common with one another than European countries. They are not divided by language, do not have a long history of independence as powers of their own, etc. etc. You fail to see some difference between the Union of US and the Union of EU. In US, the Union is FORCED! Means.. with war! That is why you see today people living in isolated societies forming their own agenda. They bomb buildings, they get into camps with guns expecting the "enemies", they still use North and South flags, they still hate eachother, they still have that feeling of "melting pot for money", they still follow 1000 different religions, all of them hostile to other fellow citizen commounities etc etc etc.. and they still want to come back to their countries of origins when they get retired. In EU union.. things are different. They all LOVE Europe since they're getting into it.. VOLUNTERELY! by their OWN vote! Your commounist past that still runs into your DNA through your every day education does not allow your mind to separate between FORCE and VOLUNTEERS. Thats your problem.. You have learned that force is something good... and you cannot see that wherever force made up things... finally it collapsed.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 17, 2009 18:48:36 GMT -5
EU members "volunteer" only so long as they can get rewards, the EU will need to become forced as well if it wants to become a solid unified power. Otherwise they will be no different than the early American Union. Right now ever EU state thinks of itself world before it thinks of the EU. In the US, each state is but a piece of a whole. Once the EU begins to threaten the power that the nation wields over itself, then the nation will begin to turn on EU. If the EU adopts policies that favor it but go contrary to a particular nation, best believe that nation will fight to make sure its interests are protected.
Learn a little, become a bit more intelligent, then try and debate with me.
Oh and I have been to the south, they do not hate the north. In fact, Germans and French hate eachother more so than Alabamans hate New Yorkers.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Sept 17, 2009 19:06:34 GMT -5
Much thanks to none other than the US, which through its Marshall Plan helped Europe recover much faster than it otherwise would of had after WWII. None seems to recall this ...
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Post by macmako on Sept 17, 2009 19:23:35 GMT -5
Really? You still do not make any sense. That comes from knowing nothing about American history in this case.
The Constitution, ratified by the PEOPLE through the delegates of the Constitutional Convention, created the Federal Government, to govern the USA as a UNION, and to be the governing body over the States. There was no war to get the Constitution ratified.
The civil war was fought over State rights. In 1860, the Republican party campaigned successfully against the expansion of slavery beyond the states in which it already existed. The southern states where slavery existed took this as denial of State rights and seceded from the Union. If this secession was to prevail, it would of been devastating for the USA. The Union (free states in the north) took this secession as a rebellion and detrimental to the safety of the USA. Union is strength, and divided meant weakness.
I like giving you American history lessons. You devoid of any knowledge of it. Thanks for the opportunity. Anything else?
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Sept 17, 2009 19:38:51 GMT -5
I think Basil ... said it pretty good... Demo spare us the lessons....
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Post by macmako on Sept 17, 2009 19:57:35 GMT -5
Ignorance is a sickness and I am the doctor. ;D
What is incurable is brownnoseitis.
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Post by macmako on Sept 17, 2009 19:59:09 GMT -5
Much thanks to none other than the US, which through its Marshall Plan helped Europe recover much faster than it otherwise would of had after WWII. None seems to recall this ... Yes. Conveniently forgotten.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Sept 17, 2009 20:26:12 GMT -5
In albanian europen means people that lost their hair ruining boldy and mindless. e-u-ropen= i ran lesht (lost hair)
;D
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 17, 2009 20:30:03 GMT -5
[/size][/quote] Don’t forget the American nation owns it’s very, very existence to Europe, Christopher Columbus who set sail to the new lands later to discover this land was from Europe so were all the American founding fathers not to mention the funding of the then new nation of America was funded by European nations, let’s not forget this. America was / has / is still paying her debts to Europe.
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Post by macmako on Sept 17, 2009 21:40:32 GMT -5
[/size][/quote] Don’t forget the American nation owns it’s very, very existence to Europe, Christopher Columbus who set sail to the new lands later to discover this land was from Europe so were all the American founding fathers not to mention the funding of the then new nation of America was funded by European nations, let’s not forget this. America was / has / is still paying her debts to Europe. [/quote] Wow, Archi. I had no clue that you could make up sh.it to sound so good.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Sept 17, 2009 22:01:09 GMT -5
Don’t forget the American nation owns it’s very, very existence to Europe, Christopher Columbus who set sail to the new lands later to discover this land was from Europe so were all the American founding fathers not to mention the funding of the then new nation of America was funded by European nations, let’s not forget this. America was / has / is still paying her debts to Europe. Wow, Archi. I had no clue that you could make up sh.it to sound so good. Dude, I AM AMERICAN TO THE BONE... THROUGH AND THROUGH. Arxileas is somewhat correct here. After all wasn't it France who was a main supporter of American indepdendence? Demo... now why dont you give us another one liner you fukin fake.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Sept 17, 2009 22:07:08 GMT -5
Wow, Archi. I had no clue that you could make up sh.it to sound so good. Dude, I AM AMERICAN TO THE BONE... THROUGH AND THROUGH. Arxileas is somewhat correct here. After all wasn't it France who was a main supporter of American indepdendence? Demo... now why dont you give us another one liner you fukin fake. He gives one liners a bad name.
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Post by macmako on Sept 18, 2009 8:32:35 GMT -5
Wow, Archi. I had no clue that you could make up sh.it to sound so good. Dude, I AM AMERICAN TO THE BONE... THROUGH AND THROUGH. Arxileas is somewhat correct here. After all wasn't it France who was a main supporter of American indepdendence? Demo... now why dont you give us another one liner you fukin fake. You are insignificant! Sure France helped the young Americans get their liberty from Great Britain, but it wasn't due to a liking for the Americans. France hated Great Britain and wanted to see them fall. By helping the Americans, France could achieve this. Europe forgets what the USA has done for her. If it wasn't for the USA and her power, Europe would not be enjoying the freedom they have now. So it is Europe who is paying her debts to USA.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 18, 2009 9:14:49 GMT -5
Dude, I AM AMERICAN TO THE BONE... THROUGH AND THROUGH. Arxileas is somewhat correct here. After all wasn't it France who was a main supporter of American indepdendence? Demo... now why dont you give us another one liner you fukin fake. He is just trying to steal my thunder, he knows the truth deep down, he knows you and I are right. God save United States of America BUT nothing will save Fyrom... .
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 18, 2009 9:39:53 GMT -5
Only a handful of powerful elites own the money and banking industry around the world NOT the general population "you and me" and certainly not the nations anymore, so this illusion of America is powerful and the E.U is next etc; is just that an illusion BECAUSE it's their power for them self's not for me and not for you and if you think these individuals care about the E.U and America ? You are kidding you self.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 18, 2009 10:20:34 GMT -5
Lol, America doesn owe much to the European continent since the majority of the American people consider themselves to be of European origin and a part of modern western civilization.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 18, 2009 11:29:18 GMT -5
America with no economic prosperity does not exist...Europe has got through a lot and the steps are slower but more essential.
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Post by Kassandros on Sept 19, 2009 2:35:14 GMT -5
Dude, I AM AMERICAN TO THE BONE... THROUGH AND THROUGH. Arxileas is somewhat correct here. After all wasn't it France who was a main supporter of American indepdendence? Demo... now why dont you give us another one liner you fukin fake. You are insignificant! Sure France helped the young Americans get their liberty from Great Britain, but it wasn't due to a liking for the Americans. France hated Great Britain and wanted to see them fall. By helping the Americans, France could achieve this. Europe forgets what the USA has done for her. If it wasn't for the USA and her power, Europe would not be enjoying the freedom they have now. So it is Europe who is paying her debts to USA. I think you're confused as far as it concern romantism and pragmatism. Marshal Plan was not an offer. It was a CHARGE! Greece knew from the beginning that will loose in war with Italy and Germany silmutaneously. Greece knew from the beginning that will suffer a disaster. We lost 1/6 of our population... just because we said "No" instead of "Yes" like Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Norway. Belgium and other did and saved their lives. Or we could say "maybe" like Turkey, Portugal or Spain. We said "No" for the favor of our distant allies who were safe on the other side of Atlantic and North Sea. What happened to all these countries? NOTHING! They're today with us and enjoy the same privileges of Western World.. and with their citizens... alive! We were the ones who paid the price for "their" war... Marshal Plan was the bill! They own us.. we dont own them. We paid our bill... and it was a far more bigger bill. 1/6 of the population.. for their big power games...is far more bigger bill than 100 Marshal Plans! Remember that every time you want to mention their "help" to us.
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Post by Red Brigade on Oct 3, 2009 4:30:42 GMT -5
In fact, Germans and French hate eachother more so than Alabamans hate New Yorkers. We are not living in the '30s.
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Post by Red Brigade on Oct 3, 2009 4:31:39 GMT -5
So in this sense, the USA is the only country of its kind with such a perfect UNION, therefore the wealthiest in the world. It is so perfect that different States have different Laws.
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